ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

do u accept evolution

Report this
Created by: Justsomeguy

DammitJim6200

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6876

Report this May. 18 2012, 4:08 pm

What "physical basis" are you looking for ? you want God to swoop down from heaven on a white horse carrying a bolt of LIGHTNING ? has evolution been establish as FACT ? we can go to the Bible and find people, places and things that actually existed..Evolution concepts may change every10 years or with a new fossil discovery..God never changes.

entropyman

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 127

Report this May. 18 2012, 4:19 pm

Somehow, I don't think you will, but I'm not going to tell you what to think, Ozy cause I respect your opinion even if I disagree that the evolution of man is a fact. The fact is it has not been proven no matter how many people point to dogs and birds and the environment...somebody earlier said something like evolution can be proven cause mankind is no longer living in caves and hunting with spears...What? I'm sorry, but that is a complete misunderstanding of what evolution purports to be. As to the evidence of evolution in man; skulls, bones, what-have-you, there still is the problem of that pesky 'missing link'. If the theory is to be proven, this must be found. It's really that simple. Are there really Vulcans out there somewhere? Maybe, maybe not. Most of us here would like to believe that alien life exists and maybe many of us here assume that is so, but it also must be proven because that's science. If you show me a bunch of bones and say this is a human ancester, as much as I might like to believe it, it has to be proven to hold real scientific weight. I agree that some of the evidence looks promising, but I want proof before I go around saying it, after all many of the past discoveries 'proving' the evolution of man have only ended in dead ends and explanations as to why we'll just have keep on looking. As my favourite engineer said once, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

eutychus

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 124

Report this May. 18 2012, 7:07 pm

RIF, it's really the evolution story, not evolution concepts. It's really nothing more than a "this is what we think the evidence means when thrown against the backdrop of this nifty theory most recently popularized by Charles Darwin" story told to present an alternative for those who would rather not be accountable to anyone for their behavior. Set the evidence up with a different backdrop, I'm sure it could be interpretted in such a way that it made sense as per the new background scenery.


And RIF, have you read the Bible? Suggesting to others that they consult a Bible for evidence that God changes implies that you have, but what do you understand of what you've read, I must wonder.


I suppose one could use Jeremiah 18:7-8 to support your claim of God changing- “At one moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to uproot, to pull down, or to destroy it; if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it” Yes you may claim that this is God changing his mind re: the destruction he intended upon a sinful people. However, we are told elsewhere in the Bible that God is willing and eager to forgive the broken and contrite heart. So when a people repents of living in a way that dishonors God and he relents of the judgment he had planned for them, he is really behaving in a manner consistent with his character, not inconsistent.


By the by, there is a difference between reading the Bible and understanding the basics of what it means. It's entirely possible to read something, not understand the main points and claim authority for having struggled your way through a book. I cite Dr. Seuss' Fox in Socks as a prime example. I would endeavor to gain an understanding of the main doctrines of the Bible if for no other reason than to be able to disagree based on honest knowledge rather than assumed knowledge.

OtakuJo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16362

Report this May. 18 2012, 7:11 pm

Quote: DammitJim6200 @ May. 18 2012, 4:08 pm

>

>1. What "physical basis" are you looking for ? you want God to swoop down from heaven on a white horse carrying a bolt of LIGHTNING ?

>2. we can go to the Bible and find people, places and things that actually existed..

>3. Evolution concepts may change every10 years or with a new fossil discovery.

>


1. Pretty much. Yeah.


2. Sorry to disappoint, but many texts are based on places and contain events that are true -- that doesn't mean the whole thing is true.


3. Yes, our knowledge of the patterns and the history changes, but not the basic probability of evolution itself.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

OtakuJo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16362

Report this May. 18 2012, 7:14 pm

Quote: eutychus @ May. 18 2012, 7:07 pm

>

>By the by, there is a difference between reading the Bible and understanding the basics of what it means.

>


Wow -- yes. That's exactly it. Something that literalists, Christian extremists and militant atheists so often fail to understand.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

entropyman

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 127

Report this May. 18 2012, 10:26 pm

A few nuggets I found concerning Darwin: He admitted on his death bed that he had been a "young man of unformed opinions" and was surprised that what was a matter of theory was treated as a matter of scientific fact. He said, "The 'fact' of evolution is the backbone of biology, and biology is thus in the peculiar position of being a science founded on an improved theory. Is it then science or faith?" He further stated "How I wish I had not expressed my theory of evolution as I've done." This doesn't sound to me like a man who is convinced of the evolution of man...just sayin'.

DammitJim6200

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6876

Report this May. 18 2012, 11:12 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>

>What "physical basis" are you looking for ? you want God to swoop down from heaven on a white horse carrying a bolt of LIGHTNING ? has evolution been establish as FACT ? we can go to the Bible and find people, places and things that actually existed..Evolution concepts may change every10 years or with a new fossil discovery..God never changes.

>
God swooping down on a horse? Yes that would help.

Has evolution been established as fact? Yes, It sure has.

Yes we can see that people and places in the Bible are sometimes real. Harry Potter is in England isn't he. I guess thats all real. Mark Twain was on TNG so I guess thats real too. I just seen an episode of Dr. Who with William Shakespeare in it and a real place knowen as London. Must all be real too.I can name alot of stories that use real people and places so they must be all true stories.

"Evolution concepts" may indeed change over time but that is how science works. A new discovery is made and something is learned. However no evidence has ever been found to dispute evolution. In fact every bit of evedince serves to add to the theory.

And if you don't think god changes then I suggest you read the Bible again(if in fact you have actually read it in the first place).


Evolution is largely derived from the work of Darwin and Gregor Mendel, and it is STILL considered theory not fact, my Goodman.


though your humor is somewhat.. confusing, what does Harry Potter have to do with the existence of God ? have you ever seen AIR did GRAVITY come knocking at your door saying I'm holding you on Earth ? you don't see air or gravity yet it exist..No, God will not come to you on a white horse, he dosen't have to prove anything to you his works speaks for itself, HOW  did God change ? SHOW ME a scripture stating this, in the meantime read Isa. 40:26 "DUE TO HIS ABUNDANCE OF POWER , NOTONE OF THEM IS MISSING".The source of all energy in the universe comes from GOD.

DammitJim6200

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6876

Report this May. 18 2012, 11:20 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>

>What "physical basis" are you looking for ? you want God to swoop down from heaven on a white horse carrying a bolt of LIGHTNING ? has evolution been establish as FACT ? we can go to the Bible and find people, places and things that actually existed..Evolution concepts may change every10 years or with a new fossil discovery..God never changes.

>

Actually, yes!  If your god is all-powerful, and so desperate for my devotion, then he knows that all he has to do is make himself known to me, in a tangible way that I can acknowledge without question.  I'm not an unreasonable guy; just SHOW me...that's all I ask!  Simple for a god, right?  I'm still waiting, big fella!

The Bible was indisputably written by men--we even know WHICH men--end of story.  It requires a act of faith to regard this tome as the 'word of god', and I have already taken faith off the table (MY table, anyway!) as a method for divining (heh, heh) what is real vs. what is mere folklore.

You have yet to show me that you have a leg to stand on.


Sorry, God dosen't have to prove nothing known to no one, compared to him we're nothing, in 75 to 100 years you may be dead, WE need God , he dosen't need us, he gave us life and a planet, we owe God our respect,  God lives forever,  you speak of faith as folklore, well apparently you don't have a leg to stand on, How can you define something which you know nothing about ? 


 

DammitJim6200

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6876

Report this May. 18 2012, 11:39 pm

Quote: OtakuJo @ May. 18 2012, 7:11 pm

Quote: DammitJim6200 @ May. 18 2012, 4:08 pm

>

>

>1. What "physical basis" are you looking for ? you want God to swoop down from heaven on a white horse carrying a bolt of LIGHTNING ?

>2. we can go to the Bible and find people, places and things that actually existed..

>3. Evolution concepts may change every10 years or with a new fossil discovery.

>

1. Pretty much. Yeah.

2. Sorry to disappoint, but many texts are based on places and contain events that are true -- that doesn't mean the whole thing is true.

3. Yes, our knowledge of the patterns and the history changes, but not the basic probability of evolution itself.


1. Sorry, Otakujo, God dosen't have time to play with us, he's made his presence known in other ways, on a clear night look up at the stars and you can see his works.


2.Many places and things in ancient times are known to occur and has been proven, though written in different languages, those people and places in the bible did exist, for example,Tacitus, a Roman historian who lived during the latter part of the first century C.E wrote: "Christus( latin for Christ)from whom the name Christian had it's origin ) suffered the extreme penalty of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus."


3. Evolution has not one but many theories that are still being debated. 

DammitJim6200

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6876

Report this May. 18 2012, 11:49 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>

>

>

>What "physical basis" are you looking for ? you want God to swoop down from heaven on a white horse carrying a bolt of LIGHTNING ? has evolution been establish as FACT ? we can go to the Bible and find people, places and things that actually existed..Evolution concepts may change every10 years or with a new fossil discovery..God never changes.

>
God swooping down on a horse? Yes that would help.

Has evolution been established as fact? Yes, It sure has.

Yes we can see that people and places in the Bible are sometimes real. Harry Potter is in England isn't he. I guess thats all real. Mark Twain was on TNG so I guess thats real too. I just seen an episode of Dr. Who with William Shakespeare in it and a real place knowen as London. Must all be real too.I can name alot of stories that use real people and places so they must be all true stories.

"Evolution concepts" may indeed change over time but that is how science works. A new discovery is made and something is learned. However no evidence has ever been found to dispute evolution. In fact every bit of evedince serves to add to the theory.

And if you don't think god changes then I suggest you read the Bible again(if in fact you have actually read it in the first place).

Evolution is largely derived from the work of Darwin and Gregor Mendel, and it is STILL considered theory not fact, my Goodman.

though your humor is somewhat.. confusing, what does Harry Potter have to do with the existence of God ? have you ever seen AIR did GRAVITY come knocking at your door saying I'm holding you on Earth ? you don't see air or gravity yet it exist..No, God will not come to you on a white horse, he dosen't have to prove anything to you his works speaks for itself, HOW  did God change ? SHOW ME a scripture stating this, in the meantime read Isa. 40:26 "DUE TO HIS ABUNDANCE OF POWER , NOTONE OF THEM IS MISSING".The source of all energy in the universe comes from GOD.

 

You just keep right on quoting us the Bible as your sole and only source for your beliefs, and I'll just keep right on insisting that the book is meaningless as anything other than a collection of time-distorted folktales.

Unless you can come up with something else (which we both know you can't!) the argument is over and you lose!!

The principal difference between Christians and Athiests is that we really don't give a damn what you believe or why, but you just can't ever let the fact that we don't see it your way rest, even for an instant.  It just drives you collectively mad that there are so many of us who simply refuse to placidly line up in pews and allow you to dictate to us 'The One True Way'.

If only you at least had the common sense to be embarrassed about it, you might seem a little less obnoxious to the rest of us.


The Bible maybe meaningless to you, but to millions of people around the world it has made their life better and gave it meaning.. I personally don't give a hill of beans what you believe and I'm not here to "dictate " to you the true way, I'm just discussing the difference between Gods creation and conventional evolution theories, so far you've given me no LOGICAL reason to trust evolution. 

Chidori

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 72

Report this May. 18 2012, 11:50 pm

I don't see why creation and evolution have to be mutually exclusive. I believe evolution is possible provided that is the way God chose to create the universe. Using the word 'days' in the Bible was probably the one unit of measurement everyone knew at that time - it was a concept everyone could grasp and understand while still getting the point across. A day to God who is infinite could be anything from a second to a million years, give or take a trillion. Same with the big bang theory - I'd say true provided it was God who provided the small push to make the big bang.


I'd also say, it's your life and your choice. I respect your right to believe in what you want to believe in, and hope you'd do the same for me.


"They like you very much, but they are not the hell your whales."

DammitJim6200

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6876

Report this May. 18 2012, 11:56 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>

>

>

>What "physical basis" are you looking for ? you want God to swoop down from heaven on a white horse carrying a bolt of LIGHTNING ? has evolution been establish as FACT ? we can go to the Bible and find people, places and things that actually existed..Evolution concepts may change every10 years or with a new fossil discovery..God never changes.

>

Actually, yes!  If your god is all-powerful, and so desperate for my devotion, then he knows that all he has to do is make himself known to me, in a tangible way that I can acknowledge without question.  I'm not an unreasonable guy; just SHOW me...that's all I ask!  Simple for a god, right?  I'm still waiting, big fella!

The Bible was indisputably written by men--we even know WHICH men--end of story.  It requires a act of faith to regard this tome as the 'word of god', and I have already taken faith off the table (MY table, anyway!) as a method for divining (heh, heh) what is real vs. what is mere folklore.

You have yet to show me that you have a leg to stand on.

Sorry, God dosen't have to prove nothing known to no one, compared to him we're nothing, in 75 to 100 years you may be dead, WE need God , he dosen't need us, he gave us life and a planet, we owe God our respect,  God lives forever,  you speak of faith as folklore, well apparently you don't have a leg to stand on, How can you define something which you know nothing about ? 

 

How can you?


Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for..Genuine faith requires a basic knowledge as well as an appreciation of what evidence dictates..Faith is a fruit of God's Spirit, when you can't see a way out of of a serious problem but BELIEVE that God can bring you through, and I can personally attest to this. 

DammitJim6200

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6876

Report this May. 19 2012, 12:02 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>

>

>

>What "physical basis" are you looking for ? you want God to swoop down from heaven on a white horse carrying a bolt of LIGHTNING ? has evolution been establish as FACT ? we can go to the Bible and find people, places and things that actually existed..Evolution concepts may change every10 years or with a new fossil discovery..God never changes.

>
God swooping down on a horse? Yes that would help.

Has evolution been established as fact? Yes, It sure has.

Yes we can see that people and places in the Bible are sometimes real. Harry Potter is in England isn't he. I guess thats all real. Mark Twain was on TNG so I guess thats real too. I just seen an episode of Dr. Who with William Shakespeare in it and a real place knowen as London. Must all be real too.I can name alot of stories that use real people and places so they must be all true stories.

"Evolution concepts" may indeed change over time but that is how science works. A new discovery is made and something is learned. However no evidence has ever been found to dispute evolution. In fact every bit of evedince serves to add to the theory.

And if you don't think god changes then I suggest you read the Bible again(if in fact you have actually read it in the first place).

Evolution is largely derived from the work of Darwin and Gregor Mendel, and it is STILL considered theory not fact, my Goodman.

though your humor is somewhat.. confusing, what does Harry Potter have to do with the existence of God ? have you ever seen AIR did GRAVITY come knocking at your door saying I'm holding you on Earth ? you don't see air or gravity yet it exist..No, God will not come to you on a white horse, he dosen't have to prove anything to you his works speaks for itself, HOW  did God change ? SHOW ME a scripture stating this, in the meantime read Isa. 40:26 "DUE TO HIS ABUNDANCE OF POWER , NOTONE OF THEM IS MISSING".The source of all energy in the universe comes from GOD.

Hmm.. The Harry Potter statement was made to illustrate a point. Once again something very simple went over your head. I will spell it out for you.You said that people and places in the Bible are proven to be  real insinuating that this is evidence that everything else in the Bible must be true. I wes simply using this logic to note that since Harry Potter takes place in England, a real place, the rest of the story must also be true.

I honestly can't believe I had to explain that to you. Perhaps you are better off believing in magic.Evolution may be to complex.LOL.

By the way things like air and gravity can be detected.. You fail again.


I never said gravity CAN'T be detected, but can you SEE IT ?, I suggest you disregard Harry Potter when talking about, um..Reality. 

DammitJim6200

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6876

Report this May. 19 2012, 12:12 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>

>

>

>What "physical basis" are you looking for ? you want God to swoop down from heaven on a white horse carrying a bolt of LIGHTNING ? has evolution been establish as FACT ? we can go to the Bible and find people, places and things that actually existed..Evolution concepts may change every10 years or with a new fossil discovery..God never changes.

>

Actually, yes!  If your god is all-powerful, and so desperate for my devotion, then he knows that all he has to do is make himself known to me, in a tangible way that I can acknowledge without question.  I'm not an unreasonable guy; just SHOW me...that's all I ask!  Simple for a god, right?  I'm still waiting, big fella!

The Bible was indisputably written by men--we even know WHICH men--end of story.  It requires a act of faith to regard this tome as the 'word of god', and I have already taken faith off the table (MY table, anyway!) as a method for divining (heh, heh) what is real vs. what is mere folklore.

You have yet to show me that you have a leg to stand on.

Sorry, God dosen't have to prove nothing known to no one, compared to him we're nothing, in 75 to 100 years you may be dead, WE need God , he dosen't need us, he gave us life and a planet, we owe God our respect,  God lives forever,  you speak of faith as folklore, well apparently you don't have a leg to stand on, How can you define something which you know nothing about ? 

 

 

Good question actually, and I don't for an instant expect you to believe the answer, but here it is anyway.  I spent ten years (age 16 to 26) as a born again Christian myself and involved in an exhaustive personal study of the Bible and dedicated church work.

The inconsistencies with which the Bible is rife, the miserable, judgemental, haughty, disengenuous and controlling behavior of his followers, the politics, the atrocities routinely committed in his name have all convinced me irrevocably that absolutely no god worthy of the title would ever suffer such a remarkably slipshod operation to claim him as their leader.

It is precisely my extensive experience with the things of god which has caused me to so violently reject him...NOT an unfamiliarity or ignarance on my part on the subject.

In short, no one who didn't know him as well as I do could possibly be so completely persuaded that he is just another twisted ancient bedtime story, meant to frighten small children into 'proper behavior'.

My time with storybooks has mercifully passed.  For quite some years now, I have preferred textbooks.  By all means, feel free to join me on 'the dark side'.


Apparently you've had a bad experience with a religion, so have I, but I won't let a few small people turn me away from my relationship with God, if you're sincere, God can direct you to finding his meaning..NO story in the Bible is meant to scare us, it's meant to HELP us to keep us on a GOOD path, I suggest you read it again..There's alot of people joining "the darkside " these days, I want to rise above that and do some good in the world.  

DammitJim6200

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6876

Report this May. 19 2012, 12:20 am

Quote: Chidori @ May. 18 2012, 11:50 pm

>

>I don't see why creation and evolution have to be mutually exclusive. I believe evolution is possible provided that is the way God chose to create the universe. Using the word 'days' in the Bible was probably the one unit of measurement everyone knew at that time - it was a concept everyone could grasp and understand while still getting the point across. A day to God who is infinite could be anything from a second to a million years, give or take a trillion. Same with the big bang theory - I'd say true provided it was God who provided the small push to make the big bang.

>I'd also say, it's your life and your choice. I respect your right to believe in what you want to believe in, and hope you'd do the same for me.

>


I do respect your right to whatever you believe in, we can have discussions you give me your opinion I give you mine, we compare notes, facts, etc. And a few scientist actually believe God could have had a hand in the Big Bant theory.  

Recently logged in

Users browsing this forum: OneDamnMinuteAdmiral, CO_Fowler, CO_Fowler

Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum