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Star Trek XI

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this May. 17 2012, 6:01 pm

Quote: cochrane2063 @ May. 17 2012, 3:03 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ May. 14 2012, 8:07 pm

Quote: cochrane2063 @ May. 14 2012, 5:31 pm

>

>

> ST09 actually ISN'T part of the Star Trek universe. Spock (both of them) say that very fact in the movie.

Actully, neither Spock says that defintively.

On plot holes: Could you point a few out from TMP?

Heres a big one.......

since TOS we have been told that starfleet has a good number of ships and that the HQ's of starfleet and the fedaration are on Earth.

then why is Starfleet is in the habit of keeping only one starship in the Terran system at any given time, and they could care less whether it's fully operational or not. 

 

Actually, new Spock says that the time travel created an Alternate Reality, and that Nero could not predict the results any better than they could.


That was his theroy.


and that is not the same as defintively stating its not the same universe.


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cochrane2063

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POSTS: 207

Report this May. 17 2012, 9:49 pm

So... are you saying that it isn't canon, or that the old timeline has simply been erased?


"We keep doing each other favors." "Isn't that how alliances are born?" Jonathan Archer and Thy'lek Shran

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this May. 17 2012, 11:37 pm

Quote: cochrane2063 @ May. 17 2012, 9:49 pm

>So... are you saying that it isn't canon, or that the old timeline has simply been erased?


what I'm saying is that NuSpocks theroy may or may not be correct.


Based on what was seen, and most commonly depiced in other trek stories, it would seem that the timeline was erased.


But the writers claim a "branching off" of the timeline is what hsppened.Kind of like deverting a small section of a river in a new direction while the rest continues on its original course.


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OneDamnMinuteAdmiral

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POSTS: 1401

Report this May. 18 2012, 12:54 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ May. 17 2012, 11:37 pm

Quote: cochrane2063 @ May. 17 2012, 9:49 pm

>

>So... are you saying that it isn't canon, or that the old timeline has simply been erased?

what I'm saying is that NuSpocks theroy may or may not be correct.

Based on what was seen, and most commonly depiced in other trek stories, it would seem that the timeline was erased.

But the writers claim a "branching off" of the timeline is what hsppened.Kind of like deverting a small section of a river in a new direction while the rest continues on its original course.


The other timeline wasn't erased it is just an alternate one, like what  Worf experienced in 'Parallels'.


Are you sure it isn't time for a colorful metaphor?

AtoZ2

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POSTS: 1297

Report this May. 18 2012, 1:17 pm

If the original time line was erased, then Prime Spock would not have been able to travel back in time, so yes, multiple realities must exist, which would explain a lot of contradictions in Star Trek canon.

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this May. 18 2012, 2:57 pm

Quote: OneDamnMinuteAdmiral @ May. 18 2012, 12:54 pm

>The other timeline wasn't erased it is just an alternate one, like what  Worf experienced in 'Parallels'.


Correction.


the writers claim the other timeline wasn't erased, but theres no defintive evidence to support either possibility.And no, its not like the parallels Worf encountered.Those universes pre-exsisted


According to the writers,Nero's time travel CREATED a new parellel universe


 


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stovokor2000-A

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POSTS: 2001

Report this May. 18 2012, 2:58 pm

Quote: AtoZ2 @ May. 18 2012, 1:17 pm

>If the original time line was erased, then Prime Spock would not have been able to travel back in time,


If thats the only path you see then you need to expand your imagination.


 


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cochrane2063

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POSTS: 207

Report this May. 18 2012, 3:34 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ May. 18 2012, 2:58 pm

Quote: AtoZ2 @ May. 18 2012, 1:17 pm

>

>If the original time line was erased, then Prime Spock would not have been able to travel back in time,

If thats the only path you see then you need to expand your imagination.

 

Why? If the timeline was erased, it would have happened AS Nero went back, making Prime Spock not exist, and be unable to travel back in time.


"We keep doing each other favors." "Isn't that how alliances are born?" Jonathan Archer and Thy'lek Shran

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this May. 18 2012, 4:26 pm

Quote: cochrane2063 @ May. 18 2012, 3:34 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ May. 18 2012, 2:58 pm

Quote: AtoZ2 @ May. 18 2012, 1:17 pm

>

>

>If the original time line was erased, then Prime Spock would not have been able to travel back in time,

If thats the only path you see then you need to expand your imagination.

 

Why? If the timeline was erased, it would have happened AS Nero went back, making Prime Spock not exist, and be unable to travel back in time.

like I said, expand your imagination.


I'll give you an example.


In First Contact thed Borg went back in time to change earth history.They did so by opening a time vortext.Once the Borg went trew, the universe/history changed, but the crew of the Enterprise D were protected from the time chsange by what Data called a temporal wake coming from the Vortext.


Something Similar could have happen to Spock Prime.


Also, chasnges in history havent always been depicted as a instant change.


Look at DS9'ss tweo part "Past tense".Sisko,Bashir and Dax go back in time and eventually interfer with the Bell riots by unitenally geting Bell killede.


But the change in history wasnt imidiate, the universe around the Defient didnt change untill Bell died in the past.


 


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AtoZ2

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POSTS: 1297

Report this May. 19 2012, 5:28 am

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ May. 18 2012, 4:26 pm

Quote: cochrane2063 @ May. 18 2012, 3:34 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ May. 18 2012, 2:58 pm

Quote: AtoZ2 @ May. 18 2012, 1:17 pm

>

>

>

>If the original time line was erased, then Prime Spock would not have been able to travel back in time,

If thats the only path you see then you need to expand your imagination.

 

Why? If the timeline was erased, it would have happened AS Nero went back, making Prime Spock not exist, and be unable to travel back in time.

like I said, expand your imagination.

I'll give you an example.

In First Contact thed Borg went back in time to change earth history.They did so by opening a time vortext.Once the Borg went trew, the universe/history changed, but the crew of the Enterprise D were protected from the time chsange by what Data called a temporal wake coming from the Vortext.

Something Similar could have happen to Spock Prime.

Also, chasnges in history havent always been depicted as a instant change.

Look at DS9'ss tweo part "Past tense".Sisko,Bashir and Dax go back in time and eventually interfer with the Bell riots by unitenally geting Bell killede.

But the change in history wasnt imidiate, the universe around the Defient didnt change untill Bell died in the past.

 


 


I'm just curious that why what was stated on screen in ST09 as the explanation can't be excepted as fact because you say so?
Is there some obscure reason for the need to analyze it to death with references to what happen in TV episodes that came before?
 
Maybe your just bored?

"Thank Pitch Forks and Pointed Ears"

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this May. 19 2012, 8:23 am

Quote: AtoZ2 @ May. 19 2012, 5:28 am

>I'm just curious that why what was stated on screen in ST09 as the explanation can't be excepted as fact because you say so?


Its not because I say so.


Its because nothing and noone in the film claimed it was a fact.Nu Spock was speculating and sumizding a theroy when he made that statement.


He is likely right, but even Spock can msake a mistake.So, you can accept it as fact if you like, but it was never defintivly stated as a fact.


Is there some obscure reason for the need to analyze it to death with references to what happen in TV episodes that came before?   Maybe your just bored?


yep, very board.5 hours in a dialisys chair, 3 days a week will bore you to death.


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stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this May. 20 2012, 6:36 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>why on earth are you trying to upset millions of trekkies by trying to give evidence on why our beloved prime universe is erased? hang your head in shame screw the new alternate timeline it is worthless compared to the prime universe and it great history of stories and characters and for you to try to justifie your hidden agenda by trying to say that the new universe is the only one that exists now. HOW DARE YOU!!! 

>


\I'm not even sure to whom your directing that comment twards,but if your not a fan of the "POSSIBILITY" of an errased prime timeline, then the only persons you should be upset with would be the creators of trek09


 


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Kdbtrekkin

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POSTS: 3648

Report this May. 20 2012, 1:56 pm

IMO. It's because it's fun. It brings back the epicness of Star Trek, albeit not my way, but whatever, it still did that.


It brought back characters that were popular, but were fading into the background. Thank you J.J. 


It also brought back Star Trek to a somewhat forefront, back to the lexicon of today's generation, to make Star Trek relevant again(which it has always been, but forgotten, we had not been in a time of crisis since Star Trek ended, that is back and so is hope[it's always been here, just sometimes forgotten]).


Star Trek will always be around, whether in the background or the forefront. It belongs in our mythology. It is what it is, a future to respect, a future to strive for, a future to become.


"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires, seek discipline and find your liberty." Frank Herbert(Dune)

OneDamnMinuteAdmiral

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POSTS: 1401

Report this May. 21 2012, 2:44 am

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ May. 18 2012, 2:57 pm

Quote: OneDamnMinuteAdmiral @ May. 18 2012, 12:54 pm

>

>The other timeline wasn't erased it is just an alternate one, like what  Worf experienced in 'Parallels'.

Correction.

the writers claim the other timeline wasn't erased, but theres no defintive evidence to support either possibility.And no, its not like the parallels Worf encountered.Those universes pre-exsisted

According to the writers,Nero's time travel CREATED a new parellel universe

 


Since the movie timeline divergence happened in the TOS era then it would already exist as a parallel timeline during the events of 'Parallels' You seem to be thinking that time would be linear and only be made up from the perspective of the show but since it is going to happen then it already happened and it also didn't happen too in yet another alternate timeline.


Or as Doctor Who would say, Wibbly Wobbly, Timey Wimey.


 


Are you sure it isn't time for a colorful metaphor?

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this May. 21 2012, 6:43 am

Quote: OneDamnMinuteAdmiral @ May. 21 2012, 2:44 am

>Since the movie timeline divergence happened in the TOS era then it would already exist as a parallel timeline during the events of 'Parallels'


Thats debatable since we cant be sure the events do not accure in a linear fashion.And either way, this would still seem to qualify as a different kind of phenomenon


You seem to be thinking that time would be linear and only be made up from the perspective of the show but since it is going to happen then it already happened and it also didn't happen too in yet another alternate timeline.


Thats also debatable.Look at DS9's 2 part story "Past Tense".The event's of time travel and history changing did indeed happen in a linear fashion and the change in the universe around the Defient didnt happen untill the exact moment Sisko caused the change in history.


 


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