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Heroic and not so awesome deaths.

OtakuJo

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POSTS: 16362

Report this May. 13 2012, 2:44 am

Not every person's death (even main characters') has to be "heroic". But the best are those that are presented in a manner which is poignant or sudden. A lot of the best death scenes are not of major characters at all.


I liked:


Mirror Odo and Weyoun 7 (for being so unexpected.)
Enabran Tain (for such poignant dialogue between him and Garak.)
Sim (it was actually very sad.)


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Having a main character like Tasha Yar essentially die a "redshirt's death" was a clever move, I think anyway. A bit pathetic that it was death-by-blob-monster, but hey, she never really stood out that much anyway.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

OtakuJo

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Report this May. 13 2012, 2:47 am

Just another example I can recall in Star Wars - Queen Armadalla did she really die of a broken heart? That was pretty lame too


I guess she had a traumatic childbirth and also some injuries from Anakin assaulting her, and lost her will to fight for life perhaps... That makes some sense, although I don't really recall in detail.


Not going to say much about it because Revenge of the Sith was probably the lamest Star Wars movie methinks.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

Mitchz95

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Report this May. 13 2012, 9:38 am

I mean Picard was effectively using Kirk as redshirt canon fodder.


Kirk sacrificed himself on purpose. Picard had nothing to do with his death.


Who cares about that stupid planet anyway?


Picard, Starfleet, and all the millions of people that were on the planet.


Vulcan was destroyed and nobody seems much concerned about that.


Did you even watch the movie?


Picard wouldn't compromise his high morals to try to save by going back in time.


He was willing to do something similar to save the planet in "A Matter of Time".


Yet in the very next movie we have Picard defying orders to save 600 settlers (including a babe) and deprive the galaxy of 'the fountain of youth'.


"How many people does it take before it becomes wrong?"


Besides, the Prime Directive.


And Data's death was a big waste IMO because it means that there is not even a remote chance of any new TNG movies.


They weren't going to make any more TNG movies anyway. The movie was advertised as "a generation's final journey".


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

Fleet Admiral Braxton

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Report this May. 13 2012, 4:25 pm

It's Appearant That The Klingons Specialise In Heroic And Awesome Deaths; Plenty Of That During The Dominion War.       

stovokor2000-A

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POSTS: 2001

Report this May. 13 2012, 4:50 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>Picard had to 'drag' Kirk away from the life of 'bliss' he was having in the Nexus


Dont exajerate, Kirk walked out of the Nexus once he realised it wasnt trully real


I'm interested that Picard 'cared' about the pre-Warp planet yet was happy to sit by and let other pre-Warp planets with millions of inhabitants perish by 'natural disasters' when he/Starfleet could easily save them. 


key word, 'natural disaster'.The prime directive prohibits interfering in internal matters and natural events of pre-warp cultures.


Soran causeing the destruction of a star is not natural


I meant to say nobody much here is that affected by the destruction of Vulcan.


I was effected.And I've seen pleanty of posters thast complain about it


The settlers weren't a part of the Federation so the 'Prime Directive' says don't get involved in Mother-Son disputes.


3 Promlems with thast statement.


1] you dont need to be part of the fedaration to get help from them


2]they werent pre-warp


3]the Federation was already involved, trying to remove them.Did you forget about Admiral Dougherty??


Picard interfered to safe gaurd the Prime directive.


They would have made more movies if Nemesis was a 'big' success. You know when the cast get desperate for work


which just wasnt likely.First Contact was the only real hit.And I doubt if Data lived would have made Nemisis a success


 


 


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OtakuJo

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Report this May. 13 2012, 7:19 pm

I'm interested that Picard 'cared' about the pre-Warp planet yet was happy to sit by and let other pre-Warp planets with millions of inhabitants perish by 'natural disasters' when he/Starfleet could easily save them.


That's a fair point -- the difference would be that one disaster was natural, the other would have been imposed by Soran. For my part I am totally mad at Picard in the episode you reference here.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

Mitchz95

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Report this May. 14 2012, 7:54 am

Then Picard should have taken the bullet not Kirk


I'm sure he would've been willing, if he'd been in a position to do so. He had to be the one to disarm Soran's missile because he was experienced with 24th century technology.


That makes such a difference to said inhabitants of the planet


There's a difference between letting somebody destroy an inhabited planet, and letting it be destroyed by a natural phenomenon.


But how much did you really care about the inhabitants of Veridian 2/3?


Not very much. But I'm sure I'd care more if I were in Picard's place.


Sorry they are not really pre-Warp I admit but plenty of times Picard said he was not allowed to interfere with the internal business of Warp civilisations. Heaps of time I recall. Internal business would be mother-son disputes, I guess


The Federation should have pulled out then, not made it worse.


Corrupt Starfleet officers were already involved by the time Picard got there. If he'd just let them continue to exploit Ba'ku, they would have killed the planet and devastated its inhabitants' culture.


If it had been moderately successful though then Data's death might have made a difference.


Again, they intended to make Nemesis the last TNG movie since before it was released.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

stovokor2000-A

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Report this May. 14 2012, 9:22 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>Then Picard should have taken the bullet not Kirk


Picard needed help, he knew he couldnt do it alone because he already failed allone.


Kirk chose to take on Soran while Picard went after the missle,It was a logical plan, no less it wwas Kirks


That makes such a difference to said inhabitants of the planet


No, but it would make a difference to a universal eco system.The bottom line is that they dont interfer with the natural evalution of a world.


But how much did you really care about the inhabitants of Veridian 2/3? Tell me the truth


I really didnt care about that.But if your saying that the characters shouldnt have cared that I would ask you if you ever watched any trek.Its in character for both Kirk and Picard to risk their lives for such a world


Sorry they are not really pre-Warp I admit but plenty of times Picard said he was not allowed to interfere with the internal business of Warp civilisations. Heaps of time I recall. Internal business would be mother-son disputes, I guess


But as stated, the Fedaration was alreadyy involved, illegally I might add, Picartd was just trying to set things right.


The Federation should have pulled out then, not made it worse.


see above


 


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Pooneil

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Report this May. 14 2012, 11:41 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>Sorry I disagree with all of you.

>They lived heroic lives and they should have had heroic deaths.

>If I wanted average (or less than average) I would watch reality TV.

>Come to think of it I didn't like Sarek's death either. I thought that the idea of a disease causing Vulcans to lose their emotional control and make everyone crazy was a bit far-fetched, even in the world of far-fetched things. The actual pre-death scene was quite touching though.

>OK I don't like his bitch of a third wife and her ugly outfits either 

>


I'm wondering if it would be a good thing if you "liked" a character's death. Isn't the point of killing off a character to heighten the drama and suspense, and to get a reaction out of the audience? If a character -- Tasha Yar, for example -- got a more "fitting" death, the kind she "should" have had, how would you have reacted? Would you have enjoyed the episode more, knowing that she died heroically and honorably or whatever? Would that nicer demise have left you feeling happy and content, rather than bereft?


Spock, Kirk, Data, Trip, and Tasha all died doing their jobs, which I think is perfectly appropriate. Honestly I'd be more satisfied if they all lived to be old and senile and died in their beds. It happens, sometimes, even if it's not heroic.


Kirk said, "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life". That holds true for inappropriate, ill-fitting deaths as well as noble ones.

Anime Odo

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Report this May. 14 2012, 3:45 pm

i'm just glad ODO didn't die ~ that would be so sad


"I don't believe in luck, but I appreciate the sentiment." - Odo

Chidori

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Report this May. 15 2012, 1:04 pm

I think so far the deaths have made sense overall as far as plot and their characters go, but if you had each person die a heroic death, it would become commonplace and cheapen their sacrifice. You'd probably sigh to yourself and go 'oh look, another martyr.' I think it's the smaller deaths, those who don't die heroically, that are harder to deal with cause then you gotta ask yourself, 'what's the point? why'd they die this way?'


I felt bad for Suder in VOY - he was making progress towards not being a murdering psycho, then has to become what he's fighting against (a murdering psycho) to save the crew from the Kazon.


"They like you very much, but they are not the hell your whales."

OtakuJo

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Report this May. 15 2012, 2:22 pm

Heroic deaths in fiction are over-rated. They're so cliche now that there's rarely any real poignancy to them.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

Pooneil

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POSTS: 1023

Report this May. 16 2012, 8:48 am

Tasha Yar's death was only disappointing because it came so soon. They killed her off without really developing first.


I thought the "best" death was Sito Jaxa's, from "Lower Decks".

CloudMinder2

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Report this May. 21 2012, 1:16 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>Sorry I disagree with all of you.

>They lived heroic lives and they should have had heroic deaths.

>If I wanted average (or less than average) I would watch reality TV.

>


 


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