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Repeating History

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this May. 08 2012, 4:22 pm

In seeing the current events around the world... Why are so many countries going down the exact same path as countries did just a few decades ago?  Why did France just vote in a socialist for President? Why did Greece elect some Nazis into parliament?  Why are so many governments going the authoritarian route?


But if people actually look at Germany just before they elected Hitler, there are a lot of correlations.  And what astounds me is that so many people don't even know who Hitler was or what he did:


http://gillreport.com/2011/09/video-wow-mini-doc-exposes-american-dont-know-who-hilter-was/


(Note: The video covers a lot of things, so I'm only referencing the first few minutes.... although the rest of the documentary is very informative and thought provoking for some people.... and touches on many of the subjects we've been discussing on this forum recently.  The specific purpose of the entire video isn't specifically what I'm addressing, but it is a part of it when looking at the larger picture.)


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this May. 08 2012, 7:41 pm

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>They are voting for those people because capitalism has failed.
That's a lie that the socialists keep spewing, but doesn't have an ounce of truth.  Big government has been squashing capitalism for years and promoting more and more government control and spending and higher taxation.  This devestates economies and then their answer is more government control and spending and taxation.  Massive entitlements and taxation = destruction.


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this May. 08 2012, 7:46 pm

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>And since your clip mentioned Jews. They became the most hated people in Europe, because of their ruthless way of doing business.
Nope.  People hate Jews because they are God's Chosen People.


And if you're jealous because someone is better at business than you are.... well, that's just childish.  There will always be someone at the top in any competition.


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this May. 08 2012, 7:49 pm

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>Maybe it's a good thing that those people Protesting at Wallstreet are a bunch of morons. If they had a guy like Hitler to organize them. Those protests would have a different outcome.
If we continue down the same path (again,) someone like Hitler will emerge.  (I can think of a few candidates who believe in much of the same philosophies as Hitler.)


Vicsage

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Report this May. 08 2012, 7:53 pm

Is it possible no system works?  Capitalism, fascism, socialism, communism, or anything else.  Maybe people are no damn good and are fatally flawed and ruin any system.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this May. 08 2012, 8:17 pm

Quote: Vicsage @ May. 08 2012, 7:53 pm

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>Is it possible no system works?  Capitalism, fascism, socialism, communism, or anything else.  Maybe people are no damn good and are fatally flawed and ruin any system.

>
I don't believe that.  Capitalism is based on liberty, and that is not flawed.  The rest all are fundamentally flawed as they take away liberty.


What people call "capitalism" nowadays is very far from it.  When a company bribes a politician to give them a government contract or a bailout or institute some regulation/law to help them and/or hurt their competition, that's not capitalism.


Of course, some people will complain that some other peson has earned more and that's not "fair".... but they need to grow up and learn some responsibility.


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this May. 08 2012, 8:20 pm

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>They are voting for those people because capitalism has failed.
That's a lie that the socialists keep spewing, but doesn't have an ounce of truth.  Big government has been squashing capitalism for years and promoting more and more government control and spending and higher taxation.  This devestates economies and then their answer is more government control and spending and taxation.  Massive entitlements and taxation = destruction.

Why are you always so selective in what you qoute? Well never mind. Your own country's economy is down the drain. Your Credit rating is sh*t. Your big businesses pursuit of profit led to outsourcing of a lot of jobs, And is the reason why China Pretty much owns your behinds. You see the government Control that Obama was going for is a bit like the system we have. And is pretty much the reason why, when the crisis hit. We didn't have any foreign debt and got out of this crisis with our credit rate intact and on top. 

Yes, the USA's economy is down the drain due to the socialism that has been pushed on us for decades.


What's wrong with offshoring (which is different than outsourcing)... it creates jobs in other countries.  But why are US companies offshoring jobs?  It's because of the US government screwing things up and making things much more expensive.  When I hire someone, their paycheck is only a part of the expense of the employee.  Regulations cost businesses BILLIONS each year.


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this May. 08 2012, 9:20 pm

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>They are voting for those people because capitalism has failed.
That's a lie that the socialists keep spewing, but doesn't have an ounce of truth.  Big government has been squashing capitalism for years and promoting more and more government control and spending and higher taxation.  This devestates economies and then their answer is more government control and spending and taxation.  Massive entitlements and taxation = destruction.

Why are you always so selective in what you qoute? Well never mind. Your own country's economy is down the drain. Your Credit rating is sh*t. Your big businesses pursuit of profit led to outsourcing of a lot of jobs, And is the reason why China Pretty much owns your behinds. You see the government Control that Obama was going for is a bit like the system we have. And is pretty much the reason why, when the crisis hit. We didn't have any foreign debt and got out of this crisis with our credit rate intact and on top. 

Yes, the USA's economy is down the drain due to the socialism that has been pushed on us for decades.

What's wrong with offshoring (which is different than outsourcing)... it creates jobs in other countries.  But why are US companies offshoring jobs?  It's because of the US government screwing things up and making things much more expensive.  When I hire someone, their paycheck is only a part of the expense of the employee.  Regulations cost businesses BILLIONS each year.

You have got to be kidding. Unfortunately you are not. Yes you are outsourcing to India, And offshoring to China. unfortunately You don't sell much to China because they are copying all of your products and sell them as their own. And still you're handing them a lot of jobs. Jobs that could produce income in the US, and thereby produce taxes, and a lot more costumers in US stores. Which is good for business. Instead, the way that you want it. You create more unemployment in your own country. thereby reducing the amount of costumers that are actually able to buy other things than the groceries that are needed to get by. Yes in your country and mine we want a higher salary than in China. That just means that the employers have to get smarter. or less greedy if they want to sell their products. Social dumping is definitely not the answer. 

You've got two different things here:


1) Offshoring... largely due to overbearing regulations inhibiting business.  A few decades ago, the USA didn't offshore much, even though we had the highest salaries... it was still better to do it in the USA.  Nowadays, the regulations are keeping us from doing business here.  Obama has even bragged about trying to use regulations to crush businesses.  Ask almost any employer and most can cite a dozen regulations off the top of their heads that make doing business here in the USA more burdensome than it should be.  (I've listed several in other threads, and the USA writes thousands of pages of new ones each year.)  And now.... with the USA having the highest corporate tax rate in the world, the ProRegressives have made it even harder to do business.


2) China.... that's a really different animal.  Our government keeps doing business with them even though China is an enemy of the USA and liberty.  China steals our stuff and the USA doesn't do anything...  They attack us over the internet and still nothing is done.  But then again, the USA is in debt to China.... (Reminds me of England in debt to the USA a few decades ago - and the US dictated England's military policies.)


 


 


As for your comment about greed.... that's bogus and most everyone knows it.  Greed is only a motivator, like hate and love.  I could be a million times more greedy than Bill Gates and that doesn't make me richer.  People complain all the time about "greed," but what they're really saying is that they're jealous.    "Whaaaaa.... someone has more than meeeeeee!!!!!!"


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this May. 08 2012, 9:27 pm

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>And since your clip mentioned Jews. They became the most hated people in Europe, because of their ruthless way of doing business.
Nope.  People hate Jews because they are God's Chosen People.

And if you're jealous because someone is better at business than you are.... well, that's just childish.  There will always be someone at the top in any competition.

See this is what I meant when I said that some people didn't quite get the history lesson right. I guess that included you. I got that impression when we were talking about revolutions in the other thread. And it wasn't so much about jealousy, But the way they treated non jews. and workers in general. They actually made a few christmas stories about  Ebenezer Scrooge those are excellent in portraying how Jews were back then . Unfortunately 6 million Jews didn't have a happy ending here in Europe. But You keep believing that it was because they were the chosen people. And see where that will get you. 

You believe that Hitler killed the Jews because he didn't like their business practices?  That's certifiably nuts!


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this May. 08 2012, 9:30 pm

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>Maybe it's a good thing that those people Protesting at Wallstreet are a bunch of morons. If they had a guy like Hitler to organize them. Those protests would have a different outcome.
If we continue down the same path (again,) someone like Hitler will emerge.  (I can think of a few candidates who believe in much of the same philosophies as Hitler.)

 

We are on the same path already. That's what you don't seem to get. 

I know we're on the same path... hence the whole point of the thread.  I said "If we continue down the same path"...


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this May. 08 2012, 9:39 pm

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>Is it possible no system works?  Capitalism, fascism, socialism, communism, or anything else.  Maybe people are no damn good and are fatally flawed and ruin any system.

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Actually it's quite simple. None of these Isms work alone, mix some of them together and control the greed and you have a system that works.

Money controls the world right now. But once the general population starts to suffer, then all hell brakes loose. Some things shouldn't be privatized like healthcare Public transportation, powerplants. That way you keep the price down. The same goes for medicine.  

 

Controlling "greed" is like controlling love or hate....  It's a BS argument.  What you're really calling for is chaining people.... limiting them so they aren't allowed to succeed.


As for your examples.... every single one of the items you listed has proven that when privatized, prices go down while the product gets better.  Government, by definition, is waste.  While there are some appropriate places for limited government, but pretty much everything that government does is more expensive than when privatized.


chr33355

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Report this May. 09 2012, 4:13 am

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>And since your clip mentioned Jews. They became the most hated people in Europe, because of their ruthless way of doing business. 

>
 Wrong the Jews have been hated by Christians for centuries. There was no sudden rise of anti semitism before WW2 it had always existed in Europe.


chr33355

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Report this May. 09 2012, 4:23 am

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>Is it possible no system works?  Capitalism, fascism, socialism, communism, or anything else.  Maybe people are no damn good and are fatally flawed and ruin any system.

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Actually it's quite simple. None of these Isms work alone, mix some of them together and control the greed and you have a system that works.

Money controls the world right now. But once the general population starts to suffer, then all hell brakes loose. Some things shouldn't be privatized like healthcare Public transportation, powerplants. That way you keep the price down. The same goes for medicine.  

 

Controlling "greed" is like controlling love or hate....  It's a BS argument.  What you're really calling for is chaining people.... limiting them so they aren't allowed to succeed.

As for your examples.... every single one of the items you listed has proven that when privatized, prices go down while the product gets better.  Government, by definition, is waste.  While there are some appropriate places for limited government, but pretty much everything that government does is more expensive than when privatized.

You can succed without getting greedy. And you can still get rich if you're good enough. Maybe just not as fast. And controlling it is actually not so bad. because rich people tend to hide their money put it in off shore accounts. whereas if you paid the workers more, the money would be put back in rotation. and thereby making other people a little richer. See you want to convince me that any president of a large company is worth a 20 million dollar a year salary , but you will never be able to do that, unless he is able to sh*t gold.  The problem is you are assuming that all rich pepole are greedy because they are rich.  You are correct you don't have to be greedy to be sucessful nor do you have to be greedy to be rich.  Most of their salary is in stock options which increase in value as the company does better so I can very easily say that a CEO is worth 20 mil a year but it won't convince you because you feel that is wrong.

Now for the privatizing part. See that is exactly were you're wrong and so is the "prove"  When Denmark joined the EU. Our largest  provider of electricity was run by the state. The Eu told us that we had to privatized it to ensure fair competition. Fair competition is great for every one. But of course when you privatize, the company has to make a profit for the shareholders as well as maintaining the facillity. Result. An increase in price by 200 percent. Please tell me how that is benefitting me in any way.  

And The products we buy today are not one bit better because of that competion. Must of the electronic devices we buy today are actually build not to last. Even a simple thing as a lightbulp. Oh so the electronic devices we buy today are not faster, have more processing power, have more features?


chr33355

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Report this May. 09 2012, 4:29 am

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>Is it possible no system works?  Capitalism, fascism, socialism, communism, or anything else.  Maybe people are no damn good and are fatally flawed and ruin any system.

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Actually it's quite simple. None of these Isms work alone, mix some of them together and control the greed and you have a system that works.  The problem is there is no way to control greed with out a system becoming totalitarian.

Money controls the world right now. But once the general population starts to suffer, then all hell brakes loose. Some things shouldn't be privatized like healthcare Public transportation, powerplants. That way you keep the price down. The same goes for medicine.  Government has never managed to keep the prices of things down unless it forces rationing on a product or service.

 


caltrek2

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Report this May. 09 2012, 5:48 am

The notion that if only governmen would get out of the way is what led to the repeal of the Glass Steagal Act. The repeal ended the separation of commercial and investment banking. There were a few legislators who realized at the time that the repeal was a bad idea. Legislatores like Senator Byron Dorgan, who explained his oppostion at the time of passage in these words:


"We are, with this piece of legislation, moving towards greater risk. We are almost certainly moving towards substantial new concentration and mergers in the financial services industry, that is almost certainly not in the interests of consumers. And we are deliberately and certainly, with this legislation, moving towards inheriting much greater risk in our financial services industries. And so, I come to the floor to say that I regret that I cannot support the legislation. I think we will, in 10 years’ time, look back and say we should not have done that, because we forgot the lessons of the past."


So ten years later his predictions have come true. Yet there are some who have posted on this thread who ignore that chain of events, who ignore that clear evidence and continue to spout this fantastic notion that what has caused our problems is too much government interference. Those are the people who repeat the mistakes of history because they are so wrapped up in their own ideology that no amount of evidence can get through.


 

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