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TOS Remastered

Keno78

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POSTS: 15

Report this May. 02 2012, 7:51 pm

I have to admit I love watching remastered Trek. I first got into Star Trek in 1983 and taped all of them off of the tv as a kid so needless to say when the TOS clamshell DVDs came out in 2004 I snapped them up. I was blown away by the picture quality and sound mix.


Then I bought TOS remastered on DVD and my jaw dropped at the remastering job done to the live action footage. The extra oomph of the sound mix to bridge scenes in sequences such as the slingshot at the end of Tomorrow Is Yesterday also far exceeded what I thought was possible with a 1960s production not to mention the general ambience of the sound design overall.


I have to admit however that the original effects footage at times frustrated me over the years because I felt the structure of the scenes were more limited than the filmmakers intended due to the primative effects. The aforementioned slingshot scene for instance or The Doomsday Machine to give another example. I find that the remastered episodes tend to flow better due to the inclusion of the new effects ( although at times they can look a little cartoonish I find this to be a reasonable trade off ).


Also I choose to view the franchise in chronological order from the 22nd to the 24th century every few years ( and now ending back in the 23rd century with Trek 09 ) and I find TOS Remastered feels more in line with the other series and films in the franchise than the originals did. I did not buy the Blu Ray because as it stands TOS Remastered actually contains the most detailed and cleanest footage out of all the shows in the franchise and I did not want to be jarred from my viewing experience by suddenly jumping back to standard definition for the remainder of the franchise ( also The Directors Cut of The Motion Picture is my prefered choice for that film and it's only available in standard definition ).


I feel as a lifelong Star Trek fan I have never had it this good to be honest.


I do have two gripes with the Remastered Trek however. The first is Court Martial. As beautiful as the print is for much of the climax of the episode the contrast goes up and down as if someone is playing with the button. My original TOS DVD and broadcast tape do not have this problem. I also find the grading in the Remastered Catspaw to be too dark. They do detract from the viewing experience for me personally.


Having said that the episode of Remastered which impressed me the most was The Cage. This is probably the most watched episode for me over the years because as a Trek completist I tend to watch it twice as it is incorporated into the two part The Menagerie as well. I have watched the Remastered The Cage a couple of times over the years now and it feels nearly as fresh to me as a viewing experience now as when I first watched it back in the late 80s. The opening credits and push in on the bridge are simply stunning. The overall picture is stable and pops from the screen. It really is a beautiful looking episode. The sound mix is more dynamic than many films with new 5.1 mixs from the same era that I have on DVD.


Indeed the early first season episodes are a wonder for me to behold. The foley work, cinematography etc always felt to me to be much more in line with The Wrath Of Khan and less TV like than later episodes and the remastered versions eliminate the washed out and dirtier feel of those earlier episodes compared to the rest of TOS. Overall I am extremely satisfied with TOS Remastered as a viewing experience and I have not cracked out my older TOS DVDs since these new sets came out.


I was wondering if anyone would like to share their thoughts and preferences on TOS as a viewing experience with me or if you would like to discuss any of the things I have brought up in this topic?


Oh and finally I watch TOS and TAS in production order and the rest of the franchise in airdate order ( which can mean a lot of changing of DVDs once I get to the 24th Century unfortunately ).


Thanks for taking the time to read my post. I look forward to a reply.

lostshaker

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POSTS: 2293

Report this May. 02 2012, 9:44 pm

Keno78, I too enjoy TOS remastered. Some on these boards prefer the original, believing that the CGI model has no life compared to the actual model. But I really enjoy seeing the ship at new angles. I also prefer watching Star Trek as it occurs in-universe... I start with selected scenes - those with Zefram Cochrane - from ST: First Contact, then ENT, TOS, etc... I will then intermix TNG, DS9, VOY & the TNG movies as they all interlap, as opposed to watching each as a series. I do not, however, include Abrams' movie. 

Keno78

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POSTS: 15

Report this May. 03 2012, 3:06 am

Thanks for the reply lostshaker. Mentioning Zefram Cochran has jogged my memory on the Remastered Metamorphosis episode actually. I find the grading in that episode to be too dark in the new version as well.


I tried watching ST Generations opening after TUC and the rest of the film in it's appropriate 24th Century timeframe once and found it took away from my enjoyment because the story was split up. Now I just watch them in order but as whole stories. Generations and ST First Contact I consider to be 24th Century stories now.


I am curious as to why you ignore Trek 09? I find it to be a fairly solid sequel to both TNG Reunification and ST Nemesis myself as well as a fun reboot which is the closest to the action adventure format of TOS than any of the other films ( STV The Final Frontier is the other film that I find to be close in spirit to the original show for altogether different reasons while The Motion Picture always felt to me to be a nice transition in terms of character development from the more youthful crew of TOS to the more mature crew of The Wrath Of Khan particularly with regards to Spocks' character ). Personally I see Trek 09 as being a modern interpretation of TOS done on a grand scale.

Keno78

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POSTS: 15

Report this May. 07 2012, 3:29 pm

I hear on the blu ray you can watch the remasrered episodes with the old effects footage. Would you not be into watching it that way?

lostshaker

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POSTS: 2293

Report this May. 07 2012, 4:03 pm

I tried watching ST Generations opening after TUC and the rest of the film in it's appropriate 24th Century timeframe once and found it took away from my enjoyment because the story was split up. Now I just watch them in order but as whole stories. Generations and ST First Contact I consider to be 24th Century stories now.


I've actually never tried watching Generations like you've described, only First Contact. That one slipped by me. But  I'd probably just watch the movie as a whole just as I watch FC as a whole.


I am curious as to why you ignore Trek 09? I find it to be a fairly solid sequel to both TNG Reunification and ST Nemesis myself as well as a fun reboot which is the closest to the action adventure format of TOS than any of the other films ( STV The Final Frontier is the other film that I find to be close in spirit to the original show for altogether different reasons while The Motion Picture always felt to me to be a nice transition in terms of character development from the more youthful crew of TOS to the more mature crew of The Wrath Of Khan particularly with regards to Spocks' character ). Personally I see Trek 09 as being a modern interpretation of TOS done on a grand scale.



Abrams movie does not meet my definition of Star Trek. I believe it is an attack on the senses and an insult to all humanity. In fact, I believe that even Abrams thought the movie was so bad that he attempted to prevent people from seeing it by literally blinding the audience with lens flares. I probably could've forgiven the absent minded plot if the characters had any worth, but I found the characters to be shallow, immoral, unethical, illogical, and emotionally stunted. They had character arcs, but not any character growth. They were cardboard caricatures. As bad as Nero was, I found him most identifiable for his sole desire of wanting everyone in that universe dead.


Moving on, I agree with your assessments of TMP and TFF. TMP is my favorite as it most closely resembles "The Cage" and TNG, which Gene Roddenberry had control over and therefore represents what Gene Roddenberry intended for Star Trek. I know many people consider TMP to be boring, but I love it. TFF was the first Trek movie I saw in theatres, which I enjoyed for a while. My enjoyment leveled off for the past few years, but I've been gaining more respect for it recently. Particularly, I believe that William Shatner failed trying to do something big while Abrams had success by appealing to the lowest common denominator.

Gawain_VIII

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Report this May. 08 2012, 10:24 am

I love the updated special effects from TOS:R.  It brings to mind an argument I've made for a long time.  If TOS were produced with the technology available when TNG was made, it would have been the UNQUESTIONED best series.  However, as it stands, TNG wins purely as a matter of technology.  My only issue, is then the Remastered project was first announced, the producers said they would fix continuity errors like Kirk's missing division insignia from The Enemy Within, and background crew wearing the wrong ranks.  That never happened.


As far as watching in-order... I don't go as far as pure chronilogical order by watching various clips, but I do watch whole-series in chronilogical order (ENT, Cage, TOS, TAS, TOS Movies, TNG, DS9, early TNG Movies, VOY, late TNG Movies, Trek09).


Regarding TMP and TFF... TFF was a great story, well written by Shatner... IMO, the fault of the movie's lack of success lies in the directing (also by Shatner).  I come to this conclusion after having read some of Shatner's books (the man can write!) and watching TekWars (he's a mediocre director, at best).  As far as TMP goes, it had SO much potential.  But they took a 50 minute pilot and added an hours worth of special effects to make it movie-length.  They should have added an hour of story instead.  Also, the uniforms... they already had the costumes and sets built for Phase II which they should have used.  The gray monochrome scenery & motief seriously detracted from my suspension of disbelief.


I do count Trek09, but have some serious reservations.  The plot is a great closure to Unification and Nemesis... Some of the changes make sense considering the time-paradox involved.  However... some of the changes made cannot be explained by the alternate reality shift.  Specifically: Spock/Uhura romance, blatant disregard of rank structure, the Enterprise not being built in SanFran.  The changes to the structure of the Enterprise. (Ok, I can see the exterior CGI model is being a re-imagining, the form is "close enough", but the interior is a completely different ship.  The bridge is way too busy, engineering is a brewery... there's absolutely no explainable reason for those changes other than "because we can".  As Spock reminded us just because man can do a thing does not neccessarily follow that he must do that thing.  JJ should have watched a few episodes before he started production.)


That's my take on it...


ROBERT CHARLES GRAHAM, Vice Admiral
U.S.S Gawain NCC-91980
Commanding Officer, Frontier Fleet
sto-frontier-fleet.proboards.com

Capnbriggs

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POSTS: 11

Report this May. 10 2012, 9:01 pm

Having been born in the early 80s, I grew up on TNG and went back to reruns of TOS. I was able to enjoy the series still, mostly because of the great spirit of the series that shone through past the dated looking effects. After a while I really got to love them. It shows how simple something can begin and how great it can become. Still though, I like the updates. They appear to be only visual and do not effect the story, it gives the series a chance for a newer audience spoiled by high the end special effects  of newer sci-fi of today. 


That being said I hope that an original effects version is alwayse out there for people to enjoy so they can see how it really started.

Keno78

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POSTS: 15

Report this May. 20 2012, 5:10 am

[quote]


I've actually never tried watching Generations like you've described, only First Contact. That one slipped by me. But I'd probably just watch the movie as a whole just as I watch FC as a whole.


[/quote]


What I would really love is Star Trek amnesia so I could watch it all for the first time again.


[quote]


Abrams movie does not meet my definition of Star Trek. I believe it is an attack on the senses and an insult to all humanity. In fact, I believe that even Abrams thought the movie was so bad that he attempted to prevent people from seeing it by literally blinding the audience with lens flares. I probably could've forgiven the absent minded plot if the characters had any worth, but I found the characters to be shallow, immoral, unethical, illogical, and emotionally stunted. They had character arcs, but not any character growth. They were cardboard caricatures. As bad as Nero was, I found him most identifiable for his sole desire of wanting everyone in that universe dead.


Moving on, I agree with your assessments of TMP and TFF. TMP is my favorite as it most closely resembles "The Cage" and TNG, which Gene Roddenberry had control over and therefore represents what Gene Roddenberry intended for Star Trek. I know many people consider TMP to be boring, but I love it. TFF was the first Trek movie I saw in theatres, which I enjoyed for a while. My enjoyment leveled off for the past few years, but I've been gaining more respect for it recently. Particularly, I believe that William Shatner failed trying to do something big while Abrams had success by appealing to the lowest common denominator.


[/quote]


I agree that the characters were more emotionally stunted than Trek characters have been in the past and I do find characterisations in Hollywood product nowadays in general are written in a more simplistic and immature way than at any other time in the past. A lack of true talent in Hollywood perhaps but Star Trek 09 is but one film. It is just as possible that they purposely made the characters more immature because they were more youthful than we had ever seen them before. I reserved judgement on that aspect of the film because of that. I will be much more critical of a sequel if it continues that trend however. Also Kirk and his crew are possibly the only true pop cultural icons in the franchise ( along with the original ship ) so I can understand and appreciate Abrams inclination to play up the whole experience of revisiting the TOS crew. As an example Scotty was used as comic relief on TOS at times and even though it wasnt all he was and indeed what I always loved about his character is how strong he was as a commander in his own right and how practical and down to earth he was about engineering I understand why Abrams jacked up the comic relief aspects of the character. For instance my siblings only noticed Trek because I watched it and what they remember about Scotty is him drinking an alien under the table or starting a fight with the Klingons for reasons that didnt involve Kirk so they loved Scotty in Trek 09. It is Chekovs accent and his quirkiness they remember too so I can understand Abrams playing up that aspect of Chekov. Indeed thats all there was to Chekov in TOS up until The Way To Eden which as bad as an episode it was gave great character development to Chekov. We got an insight into the decisions he needed to make for his career and how that put him at a remove from other young people. That is one episode where Chekov wasnt the quirky young pup. It would be nice to have stories where the main and second tier characters were developed with more dimensionality but I completely understand why this first new TOS film didnt go that route.  Abrams played up the most popular aspects of all the characters for the general public and while some may calll that shallow I call that a smart business move. If one wishes to revive an icon such as TOS and bring it to a mass audience it makes sense to give the people what they want. I am waiting for the sequels to see if Abrams now deepens the characters and explores the other lesser known aspects of them. For me Trek 09 is a shallower film than much of TOS but it is not as shallow as episodes such as The Trouble With Tribbles or I Mudd in my opinion. Trek doesnt always have to be a fable or about ideas. Many episodes and TOS cast films were also about the characters and I for one am happy to see the pulpy space cowboy aspect of TOS being played up. It was good for one film but I do want more from the sequel I admit ( along with the action adventure which TOS relished ). Eric Bana gave a great performance in the film even though his role was cut back. Performance wise he is probably the strongest villian since Khan. Its a shame the film had so much to set up. Nero was a very interesting character. A great performance of an underdeveloped character.


I always liked TMP but I love the Directors Edition. It is too similiar to The Changeling though. To be honest I have been writing for twenty years and TMP is a good science fiction story and I love TNG but in terms of the characters and the drama they become involved in they are a much blander experience and that is down to Roddenberrys' initial concept. The whole point of drama is to watch people overcome and endure. Roddenberry says that humanity has already overcame and endured so the characters tend to have blander reactions. I much prefer Kirks' take on it in A Taste Of Armageddon...his "We're not going to kill today" speech to Anan 7. Thats how characters in drama should be written...like they are winging it and reacting not simply resolving the problems when they arise. TNG in particular was too convenient when it came to that kind of stuff. Their solutions to problems were more often than not based on convenient technobabble. I prefer something more human and realistic. Trek has never been great science fiction but it has always had a great concept and strong characters. On that note have you ever noticed that Captain Pike got more character development in The Cage than Captain Picard got in the first season of TNG? Character writing is becoming more and more of a lost art. Whether Trek 09 is just another victim of that or it was simply conning the general audience into actually getting deeper into the characters remains to be seen. I am hoping for the latter myself.


 

Keno78

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POSTS: 15

Report this May. 20 2012, 6:05 am

[quote]


I love the updated special effects from TOS:R. It brings to mind an argument I've made for a long time. If TOS were produced with the technology available when TNG was made, it would have been the UNQUESTIONED best series. However, as it stands, TNG wins purely as a matter of technology. My only issue, is then the Remastered project was first announced, the producers said they would fix continuity errors like Kirk's missing division insignia from The Enemy Within, and background crew wearing the wrong ranks. That never happened.


[/quote]


I consider TOS to be the best series irregardless of the primative nature of the production myself. It also has a unique energy to it that TV just doesnt have nowadays. TOS was way ahead of its time but it also seemed to take the strongest aspects of the overly dramatic acting style and self contained action adventure format of 60s television. Many of the stories in TOS could have easily been adapted and worked just as well in one of the more modern series  which shows just how strong a concept Trek is and how ahead of its time it was...but at the same time if it hadn't been made in the late 60s it wouldn't be TOS. I am rewatching the franchise right now and it still surprises me how easy a transition it is to go from Enterprise to TOS ( although Enterprises fourth season makes the trasnsition easier what with all the links to TOS and even the 'futuristic' Defiant ). Its a shame many modern viewers dont seem to be able to get into TOS because it looks so dated. I heard they were fixing continuity errors on remastered TOS too and I wonder why they would change the Klingon ship readout on the science station in Fridays' Child yet leave the crew biographies at the same station in Where No Man Has Gone Before untouched. They seemed to have been very random in their specific alterations. It was very strange.


[quote]


As far as watching in-order... I don't go as far as pure chronilogical order by watching various clips, but I do watch whole-series in chronilogical order (ENT, Cage, TOS, TAS, TOS Movies, TNG, DS9, early TNG Movies, VOY, late TNG Movies, Trek09).


[/quote]


I only watched a clip once myself with Generations when watching the franchise. Its a waste of time. I wouldnt advise it.


[quote]


Regarding TMP and TFF... TFF was a great story, well written by Shatner... IMO, the fault of the movie's lack of success lies in the directing (also by Shatner). I come to this conclusion after having read some of Shatner's books (the man can write!) and watching TekWars (he's a mediocre director, at best). As far as TMP goes, it had SO much potential. But they took a 50 minute pilot and added an hours worth of special effects to make it movie-length. They should have added an hour of story instead. Also, the uniforms... they already had the costumes and sets built for Phase II which they should have used. The gray monochrome scenery & motief seriously detracted from my suspension of disbelief.


[/quote]


The direction in TFF was mediocre but I put its failure more down to the need to insert more comedy. It seemed forced and unecessary. It worked in TVH because the comedy had context...in TFF it was just there because TVH was popular. It was a wasted opportunity. I think studio heads should just leave the filmmaking to filmmakers.  Bright ideas from dim bulbs are never as bright as they think they are. I never read any of Shatners fiction but loved how he interrupted his own biography in Up Til Now to try and flog stuff. The mans honesty about his opportunism is hilarious. I always thought his fiction was ghost written though. Is it not?


[quote]


I do count Trek09, but have some serious reservations. The plot is a great closure to Unification and Nemesis... Some of the changes make sense considering the time-paradox involved. However... some of the changes made cannot be explained by the alternate reality shift. Specifically: Spock/Uhura romance, blatant disregard of rank structure, the Enterprise not being built in SanFran. The changes to the structure of the Enterprise. (Ok, I can see the exterior CGI model is being a re-imagining, the form is "close enough", but the interior is a completely different ship. The bridge is way too busy, engineering is a brewery... there's absolutely no explainable reason for those changes other than "because we can". As Spock reminded us just because man can do a thing does not neccessarily follow that he must do that thing. JJ should have watched a few episodes before he started production.)


[/quote]


I heard there were rumors of a Spock and Uhura romance being bandied about during early TOS for years so I just assumed Abrams picked up on that. After the film came out I couldnt find any sources to confirm what I had heard years before so I dunno. I always assumed that was common knowledge among fans but apparently it wasnt so I dunno about that anymore. Still the two characters were very flirtatious with each other in early first season TOS so either way it wasnt a stretch for me to believe.


The disregard for command structure was bothersome to me but TOS touched on that a few times too. I guess Abrams exagarated that as well but considering the amount of set up he needed from one film I can understand him taking those kind of narrative shortcuts. TNG had its technobabble to find shortcuts and indeed the Captains Log entries in all the series have been used to take story shortcuts repeatedly so I guess it comes down to what an individual is willing to accept. I accepted it because I knew that by the end of the film they would be in a similiar kind of situation for telling stories as they were in TOS. Again I hope the sequel is more consistent in this regard however.


The Enterprise not being built in San Fran is one of those things that makes me wish Trek 09 was a true prequel to TOS. TOS is the only show that never had a true beginning or end. I have always want to see Kirks' first mission as Captain of the Enterprise and his last mission of the five year mission. One thing I didnt like about Trek 09 is that I will probably never see that now.


I didnt like nor dislike the bridge in Trek 09 generally. If they pulled out all those unnecessary workstaions it would look very like a modern version of the TOS bridge in my opinion. It wasnt the kind of design for taking in its beauty however so I guess if any bridge needed shakycam and camera flares that one did. They definately went for excitement over asthetics. It was waaay too busy though and I didnt like the viewscreen at all to be honest. I thought engineering was ugly and besides...who doesnt know what a brewery looks like in this day and age. It was the set version of McCoys microphone prop in Court Martial..."why does McCoy think a microphone is something else?"..."Why does the Enterprise have it's own brewery?"


I think the exterior of Trek 09s Enterprise looks even funkier then the TOS Enterpise. I found it to be a great throwback to both the original Enterprise and it's motion picture refit.

Keno78

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POSTS: 15

Report this May. 20 2012, 6:21 am

[quote]


Having been born in the early 80s, I grew up on TNG and went back to reruns of TOS. I was able to enjoy the series still, mostly because of the great spirit of the series that shone through past the dated looking effects. After a while I really got to love them. It shows how simple something can begin and how great it can become. Still though, I like the updates. They appear to be only visual and do not effect the story, it gives the series a chance for a newer audience spoiled by high the end special effects of newer sci-fi of today.


[/quote]


I find the spirit of TOS to be the most addictive of all the shows. I have watched TOS episodes too many times to be honest so I only watch them with years of a gap between viewings. I do wonder whether the remastered effects would bring in new punters though. The sets still look fake and even the new effects were generally done to be less dynamic than new effects in modern series and more in line with TOS.


I cant see them ever getting rid of the original episodes as they were first broadcast however. As a time capsule of the birth of modern science fiction television and as a pop cultural icon those original episodes were seminal. Besides George Lucas doesnt have his egocentric hands on them.

CaptShumar

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Report this May. 20 2012, 9:15 am

I have mixed feeling about TOS-R.  I love the original series, 1960s effects and all.  While I enjoyed TOS-R, I think I would have preferred just a cleaned up transfer over redoing the effects.  I know the original ones don't stand up to the expectations of the modern audience, but that's part of TOS's charm.

Keno78

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POSTS: 15

Report this May. 20 2012, 12:33 pm

There is a charm to the original effects for me too CaptShumar and had my original TOS DVDs contained cleaned up prints like the remastered set I would probably still watch them now and again. A lot of the model shots do hold up well today such as the planet orbits or stock Enterprise space shots. It is when more complicated action was required that the technological limitations was laid bare for me. I just find the new effects generally make more sense than the older ones in the more complicated episodes in the context of the stories and dialogue. At other times I actually forget I am watching the new effects because some of the shots are identical to the original opticals. Its at those times I am reminded that I do miss the old model 1701 because it just looked more like a physical object than the CGI 1701 does. I find it a fair trade off however because a lot of the new effects that are differerent tend to make more sense in the context of the show than the old ones.


Also did you see the orbit shot of the Enterprise at the start of the remastered Return Of The Archons where the virtual camera pushed in on the planet and it's settlement? Shots like that help the cynic in me to forget that those type of episodes were great cheats for using preexisting sets and costumes. Now the studio backlot is placed in context on an alien world it helps me to get more involved in that show. Its touches like that and with the action shots that I think the remastered episodes help to improve on the originals.


I really cannot fathom how purists are dead set against remastering older entertainments. The remastered TOS took the veneer of age and my familiarity with TOS away from it for me and allowed me to see the show freshly again. For me that exceeded any expectations I had for the project.


I actually would have preferred it had they created new model shots of the 1701 instead of a CGI one to be honest. Also compared to the CGI space shots in Enterprise remastered TOS still looks like amateur night to me so the charm of the old school effects has been replaced by the charm of relatively simplistic CGI doing generally old school movements. What I am saying is I find it updates the show without making it jar from being too slick.

superleeroy

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Report this May. 21 2012, 2:45 am

I bought season 1 of TOS:R on Blu-ray. Whacked on the first episode and my mind was blown. The picture quality was so unbelievably good and the colours so vibrant. It actually looked as though it was filmed a few years ago and not 40+ years ago. I was that impressed, I called my family in to show them that Captain Kirk had visible pores. I'm looking forward to TNG:R.

CaptShumar

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POSTS: 25

Report this May. 21 2012, 11:08 am

Don't get me wrong, TOS-R is beautiful work.  But if I had to choose, I'd pick the original effects.  The Remastered effects just like "soul" and "weight" to them.  They good to great, there's not really a bough effect among the Remastered stuff, but there's times they feel to much like watching a video-game cutscene or changes made just to make it more in line with the newer shows. 

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