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Picard's overuse of the Auto-Destruct Sequence

randy kerr

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Report this May. 03 2012, 3:28 pm

not at all.

lostshaker

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Report this May. 03 2012, 4:09 pm

in the best of both worlds they were farter away [seemed to me] and they had no clue it would work.That episode shows us nothing about what might have been needed



Go back and watch "The Best of Both Worlds, Part II". You'll find that the Enterprise moved into interception range, and that the Borg vessel had the Enterprise locked in a tractor beam that pulled the Enterprise in even closer. Riker ordered Crusher to move the Enterprise into a safe distance from the Borg Cube so that it wouldn't be destroyed too when the Borg Cube self destructed. Check 41:35, which specifically shows the relative distance of the Enterprise from the Borg Cube. 


Additionally, I realize they had no clue that it would work, but at least they recognized it as an option. The fact that they were about to attempt ramming the Cube at warp while starting at such a close distance lends credibility to the idea of doing it in similiar circumstances, such as the Narada.

stovokor2000-A

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Report this May. 03 2012, 8:16 pm

You do have a point.


But still, the Enterprise D was a advanced ship, able to kick into higher warps at a much fast pace.Much like a newer car being able to go from 0 to 60 in 30 seconds.Older less advanced cars can make those speeds in the same time frame.


For the recored I kno w very little about cars, just citing some things I've heards in car adds.


So maybe, Pikes ship couldnt genarate a warp feild in the time they had.


 


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lostshaker

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Report this May. 05 2012, 3:34 pm

But still, the Enterprise D was a advanced ship, able to kick into higher warps at a much fast pace.Much like a newer car being able to go from 0 to 60 in 30 seconds.Older less advanced cars can make those speeds in the same time frame.


For the recored I kno w very little about cars, just citing some things I've heards in car adds.


So maybe, Pikes ship couldnt genarate a warp feild in the time they had.


A couple points on that. The thing is... we saw Sulu's imposter roll the warp dial forward and the stars on the viewscreen immediately stretching... evidence that the ship generated a warp field rather quickly... the ship jumped to warp almost immediately after.


Additionally, the Kelvin managed to ram the Narada without being wiped out and presumably it was of lesser durability or technologically inferior to the Greenwood's Garbage Scow. And the Narada would've been in a far better position to destroy the Kelvin as opposed to the damage it had or could have accumulated at Vulcan.


Speed aside, I'm not convinced that speed, slow or fast, matters that much. The physics behind warp drive is that the ship itself doesn't move, but rather the space around the ship or the ship's warp bubble (and indeed this was the basis for TNG's "Force of Nature". So it seems more likely that other factors... like ship's mass or the antimatter stored would be a bigger factor.


But the final point is that they didn't have to ram the Narada, only the drill or the long chain. They didn't even consider firing torpedoes/phasers until the end of the movie. It took them that long to figure out an otherwise simple solution.

stovokor2000-A

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Report this May. 05 2012, 9:36 pm

Quote: lostshaker @ May. 05 2012, 3:34 pm

>A couple points on that. The thing is... we saw Sulu's imposter roll the warp dial forward and the stars on the viewscreen immediately stretching... evidence that the ship generated a warp field rather quickly... the ship jumped to warp almost immediately after.


sorry, but that proves nothing what so ever.Most films, and this one in particular dot always handle time laps related issues very well.Even if the feild is up, its no indication of how long it takes to get to the targeted speed.


Additionally, the Kelvin managed to ram the Narada without being wiped out and presumably it was of lesser durability or technologically inferior to the Greenwood's Garbage Scow.


Thats not relevent here because the Kelvin didnt ram at warp, and we arent talking about durability of any ship.


Speed aside, I'm not convinced that speed, slow or fast, matters that much. The physics behind warp drive is that the ship itself doesn't move, but rather the space around the ship or the ship's warp bubble (and indeed this was the basis for TNG's "Force of Nature". So it seems more likely that other factors... like ship's mass or the antimatter stored would be a bigger factor.


Your over my head now.I bow to your better info


 


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lostshaker

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Report this May. 07 2012, 3:42 pm

@stovokor,


I have further arguments that address the first two replies. However, I'm not posting them due to your third response, which I consider to be high praise from you and I am therefore running with it. You're a stickler for detail and force everyone to keep in check all assertions and assumptions, backing up those with facts for clearer determinations. I appreciate all that you bring to these debates.

stovokor2000-A

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Report this May. 07 2012, 3:54 pm

well, thenk you very much.


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JK1701

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Report this Jul. 27 2012, 9:05 am

lostshaker


"Engineering credibility? Do I have to have lived in a galaxy far far away to appreciate or hate the concept of a lightsaber? Do I have to have worked in a beer factory to recognize engineering as such? They sacrificed almost all functionality for aesthetics, which in this case sucked for not having been though out. Take for example, building the Garbage Scow on the planet's surface. If the ship were to have an antimatter containment failure then it's going to wipe out the state of Iowa if not the entire country. Even that ignores the effect on the atmosphere as evidenced by the events in VOY's "Friendship One". At least if an explosion were to occur in space, only the ship and crew would be lost. This is basic common sense, which yet again is highly absent in the alternate 23rd Century."


Everyone seems to have this huge problem with the ship being built on the surface. Number one, they have anti-grav technology, so lifting the ship off the surface and into space wouldn't be that big of a deal. Number two, and specifically aimed at lostshaker, you are assuming that the engines were installed while the ship was on the surface. They could have merely built the ship and then installed computers, warp core, and the like after they lifted it into space. I don't believe they would have been that stupid.


And I also was shocked to see stovokor give in on something, so yes, by all means, run with it!


Ahh, Kirk, my old friend. Do you know the Klingon proverb which tells us revenge is a dish that is best served cold? It's very cold....in space.

stovokor2000-A

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Report this Jul. 27 2012, 9:20 am

Quote: JK1701 @ Jul. 27 2012, 9:05 am

>And I also was shocked to see stovokor give in on something, so yes, by all means, run with it!


when someone has a solid point I acknowlidge it


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Fun123fun8

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Report this Jul. 27 2012, 10:32 am

even captain picard wants big boom


want a hug

Ultra Trek

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Report this Jul. 27 2012, 9:48 pm

He, like Kirk, used in when needed.

Mitchz95

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Report this Jul. 28 2012, 8:05 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>at least it seemed a bit harder to do in Kirk's day.


You apparently haven't seen "The Way to Eden".


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

Ultra Trek

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Report this Jul. 28 2012, 8:11 pm

Well, in "The Corbomite Manuever," he didn't have to. He just threatened. He used the best thing he could think of.

Ultra Trek

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Report this Jul. 28 2012, 8:13 pm

In, "Star Trek 3: The Search For Spock," you notice, after the Enterprise blows up, he says, "What have I done?" He thought about what he had done, but he did out of anger. He did what he thought was equel to what they did.

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