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Picard's overuse of the Auto-Destruct Sequence

timmc

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POSTS: 8

Report this May. 01 2012, 9:55 pm

Is it just me, or did Picard use the Auto-Destruct Sequence on the Enterprise way too often? Although it never actually went through, either because it was cancelled or offline, he did use it many times for just four movies  he was in.


Part of me thinks this is one of his few weaknesses as Commanding Officer. It seems like the Auto-Destruct Sequence is his way out of a fight that he doesn't think he can win any other way. Sure, it is noble to give up your life for a greater good like the destruction of the Borg, but it seems like it isn't always the best choice, especially since there is such a large population on the later models of the Enterprise including civilians and the families of Starfleet Officers.


I am very interested in hearing other opinions, both for and against my point here.


Since my normal farewell would seem oddly self-serving, I shall simply say, 'good luck'.

lostshaker

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POSTS: 2293

Report this May. 01 2012, 10:09 pm

In TNG's first and second season, Picard's willingness to destroy the ship was a pleasant alternative to him surrendering the ship every other week in a faultering attempt to contrast him against Kirk.


Within the movies, the context was appropriate, and it at least showed he was willing to do his duty. Compare that to Abrams' toilet hole where the crew never even considered ramming the laser drill or Nero's ship to save Vulcan.

___Lucifer___

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Report this May. 02 2012, 12:15 am

Compare that to Abrams' toilet hole where the crew never even considered ramming the laser drill or Nero's ship to save Vulcan.


The Enterprise crew didn't do this because the Narada had just destroyed the entire fleet in the time it took them to figure out what was wrong with the warp drive.


Carpathia86

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POSTS: 3

Report this May. 02 2012, 5:38 am

Let's not forget Janeway and how often she used the auto-destruct...


Rev. 3:20

Mitchz95

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Report this May. 02 2012, 4:24 pm

Um, Picard set the autodestruct twice. Both were attempts to defeat a lethal threat with the Enterprise disabled and unable to do anything else. I think he was justified.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

lostshaker

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Report this May. 02 2012, 9:17 pm

The Enterprise crew didn't do this because the Narada had just destroyed the entire fleet in the time it took them to figure out what was wrong with the warp drive.



Can you elaborate? Because as it stands, there's no reason they shouldn't have rammed the Narada at impulse or at warp. They showed the Kelvin doing it with the temporary effect of disabling the Narada. Someone on board should've said, "Hey! Send out a distress signal/beacon or launch a shuttle, etc... to inform Starfleet of the emergency and that we need more ships.... we'll disable the Narada by ramming it, and let the movie goers out before we induce anymore seizures."

lostshaker

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POSTS: 2293

Report this May. 02 2012, 11:40 pm

They couldn't (technobabble) contact anyone as Nero had blocked all signals. However they did manage to send a planetary-wide evacuation signal.Sigh.


I addressed that point above by mentioning how they could have dispatched a shuttle (or shuttles) before ramming the Narada. The Enterprise could've rammed the Narada, disabling it like the Kelvin had, and the shuttle or fleet of shuttles would still be free to escape jamming range if the Narada still had the power to jam transmissions. Presumably, the Kelvin shuttles managed to do the same.


Also, the original script and deleted scenes had a backstory of Nero being captured by the Klingons. So again, the Kelvin had the temporary effect of rendering the Narada so ill equipped to wage war that Nero had to surrender to the Klingons. But while this wasn't shown, the Narada was at the very least disabled to where the Kelvin shuttles did escape and managed to get word back to Starfleet. So this is a basis for the dimwitted crew to at least attempt something similar.


There was nothing the Enterprise could do to stop Nero without the red matter.


Nope. They could attempt to ram the Narada as indicated with supporting evidence above.


hate that 24th century engineering.


24th Century engineering looks good based on TNG, DS9, and VOY. It's the alternate 23rd Century engineers that need to go back to school - based on engineering, it looks as if their designs were all made while under the influence of alcohol. I think the warp nacelles were designed while smoking a blunt.


 

stovokor2000-A

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POSTS: 2001

Report this May. 03 2012, 5:03 am

@: lostshaker


Do you really think Nero would have made the same mistake 2 times??


My thinking is that he would have either kept the Narada far enough away so at to out manuver a ramming attack, or keep his ship so closa that there wouldnt be enougfh time to gather enough ramming speed.


But thats my opinion.


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Mitchz95

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Report this May. 03 2012, 8:13 am

Or the Narada could've just unloaded on the Enterprise as it tried to ram them. Not that that worked against the Kelvin...


On the evacuation signal: that was sent after Kirk and Sulu had disabled the drill. So the jamming signal was gone.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

lostshaker

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POSTS: 2293

Report this May. 03 2012, 10:14 am

Nero would have blasted the shuttles out of the sky.


Not necessarily. The Garbage Scow flew through the debris field, which could have been used as cover for the shuttles to escape. Another possibility is that Captain Greenwood could've ordered an immediate halt when they didn't pick up any transmissions from Vulcan. They would've come out close enough to the Vulcan System to scan it and gain a better idea of what was going on. They'd either be out of jamming range or they'd be in a position to escape jamming range. But once again, these people seem to sacrifice all common sense for mindless action sequences.


Pike had to go along with him to buy time.


Time that could've been used to sneak shuttles out of the Vulcan System.


But if one still adheres to such a premise of blasting shuttles out of the sky, then one has to question the Narada's sensor capability or the buffoon watching the scanners -- Captain Greenwood piloted his shuttle close enough to the drill platform's chain to raise suspicion. They didn't have to kill Captain Greenwood, as no doubt someone will counter with the argument that he was needed to bypass Earth's defenses, but they could've detonated a torpedo in close proximity to Pine, etc... to cancel any chance of him deactivating the drill.


Nero had 24th century technology. Thats why the Enterprise and all the other ships in the 23rd century fleet had no chance against Nero without the red matter.


If they had no chance, why bother trying to stop Nero? Oh, that's right - they didn't try to stop Nero, because every time they were given a chance to act rationally, they opted for mindless action.


I don't know why you guys all think that you can judge the engineering credibility of star ships. Not unless you design space ships for a living and none of you do.


Engineering credibility? Do I have to have lived in a galaxy far far away to appreciate or hate the concept of a lightsaber? Do I have to have worked in a beer factory to recognize engineering as such? They sacrificed almost all functionality for aesthetics, which in this case sucked for not having been though out. Take for example, building the Garbage Scow on the planet's surface. If the ship were to have an antimatter containment failure then it's going to wipe out the state of Iowa if not the entire country. Even that ignores the effect on the atmosphere as evidenced by the events in VOY's "Friendship One". At least if an explosion were to occur in space, only the ship and crew would be lost. This is basic common sense, which yet again is highly absent in the alternate 23rd Century.

lostshaker

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POSTS: 2293

Report this May. 03 2012, 10:17 am

Or the Narada could've just unloaded on the Enterprise as it tried to ram them.



I wish it had. The movie would've ended sooner and on a much happier note.

lostshaker

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POSTS: 2293

Report this May. 03 2012, 10:27 am

Do you really think Nero would have made the same mistake 2 times??


My thinking is that he would have either kept the Narada far enough away so at to out manuver a ramming attack, or keep his ship so closa that there wouldnt be enougfh time to gather enough ramming speed.


It's not so much about Nero making the same mistake twice as it is about the economics of the Narada itself. A ship's size offers costs and benefits. The cost of a ship that big is that it makes it a bit more difficult to miss or possibly manuever. Luckily for the Narada, Sulu appeared to be such an inept pilot that it could've dodged the Garbage Scow at impulse.


But like I said in the above post, a lot of information could have been gained had Captain Greenwood stopped his ship and scanned the Vulcan System. They could have jumped back to warp and rammed the Narada at warp. But I guess that's just too much dedication to the job and one of the founding worlds of the Federation. I guess Starfleet Officers treat their presummed oaths to protecting the Federation like American politicians in the 20th Century promise to protect the U.S. Constitution. Just another planet gone, just another liberty lost, just another day at the office.


"The Best of Both Worlds" shows us you don't need ramming speed - just warp power.

OneDamnMinuteAdmiral

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POSTS: 1401

Report this May. 03 2012, 11:21 am

Quote: Carpathia86 @ May. 02 2012, 5:38 am

>

>Let's not forget Janeway and how often she used the auto-destruct...

>


Right it was like, "Computer, coffee."
"There is no coffee today."
"Computer set the auto-destruct, I WANT my COFFEE!!"


Are you sure it isn't time for a colorful metaphor?

lostshaker

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POSTS: 2293

Report this May. 03 2012, 2:20 pm

Right it was like, "Computer, coffee."
"There is no coffee today."
"Computer set the auto-destruct, I WANT my COFFEE!!"


LOL!

stovokor2000-A

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POSTS: 2001

Report this May. 03 2012, 3:10 pm

@lostshaker


in the best of both worlds they were farter away [seemed to me] and they had no clue it would work.That episode shows us nothing about what might have been needed


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