ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

How many billions or trillions of lives did Janeway disrupt or end with her criminal use of time travel?

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Apr. 29 2012, 9:48 pm

"tongue in cheek" ???


if not, to be honest I feel you have a valiod point on this one.Not so much because that child has to live a different life, but because of all the people that may or may not be born now, for the lives in the DQ that will no longer have been effected by Voyagers passege trew their systems.


Photobucket

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Apr. 29 2012, 10:23 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>This one is for real. Janeway disrupted or ended countless lives of sentient beings over a large part of the galaxy just to save her friends. If you noticed, she only saved certain people and not everyone who died under her command.

>
well, she did save the lives of the crew that were lost in those 16 years it would have taken if not for old Janeway.


but she more then likely killed pleanty more in making those chasnges


Photobucket

TheDriver

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1652

Report this Apr. 29 2012, 10:47 pm

Yeah, action scenes aside, I really disliked "Endgame."


And seeing Janeway as an admiral in NEM literally made me nauseous.  (Of course, to be fair, pretty much everything about NEM made me nauseous.  Ha.)


"Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast."

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Apr. 30 2012, 11:45 am

 your right, she does, never noticed that before


Photobucket

Mitchz95

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1830

Report this Apr. 30 2012, 12:41 pm

What's this about the Borg Queen?


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

___Lucifer___

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1142

Report this May. 02 2012, 12:04 am

None. It's been established in other canon Trek media that Trek time travel creates or travels between alternate universes/timelines. The most recent example of this is Spock Prime in the nuTrek universe, who was still able to recall the events of his original timeline.


stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this May. 02 2012, 8:56 pm

Quote: ___Lucifer___ @ May. 02 2012, 12:04 am

>

>None. It's been established in other canon Trek media that Trek time travel creates or travels between alternate universes/timelines. The most recent example of this is Spock Prime in the nuTrek universe, who was still able to recall the events of his original timeline.

>
Correction


The new film only established that time travel, in that particular story, resulted in the creation of a new alternate universe.


It is not clear if that has always been the case


 


 


Photobucket

___Lucifer___

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1142

Report this May. 02 2012, 9:21 pm

More examples (special thanks to Michael Wong@SD.net) of Parallel universe time travel:


"City on the Edge of Forever": When Doctor McCoy jumped through the time portal, the other crewmembers on the planet's surface perceived the sudden disappearance of the entire Federation. Supposedly, he changed the past so that the Federation was never created. But that is impossible because the other crewmen still existed. They still had memories of the Federation. They still had Federation uniforms and Federation weapons. The "many worlds" theory neatly explains this problem: McCoy and all of the people on the planet's surface were all transported into a timeline (or parallel universe, whichever you prefer) in which the Federation never existed. The original timeline is not destroyed, thus explaining why they still remember its history, but they can no longer perceive it or return to it. When Kirk and Spock jumped back to "fix the damage", they caused everyone to jump into another timeline, in which the Federation was founded again, but with slightly different events surrounding Edith Keeler's death. This is not the same as "going home", but as far as they're concerned, it's good enough.


"Star Trek First Contact": When the Borg jumped into the past, the crew of the Enterprise perceived the disappearance of the Federation's entire history. This is impossible because they still exist, and they still retain all of their memories, equipment, history files, etc. Data suggests that they were somehow "shielded from the changes in the timeline", but he doesn't even attempt an explanation of how this is possible. The "many worlds" theory provided a neater explanation: they were dragged into a new timeline by the Borg sphere's "temporal wake", and when they stayed in the wake long enough to perform a similar jump, they ended up in yet another timeline. In this new timeline, they tried to "fix" events so that they unfolded more or less as they remembered (albeit with an orbital bombardment of Cochrane's launch facility which didn't occur in their original history). Note that the "many worlds" theory also explains the biggest conundrum of STFC: why the Borg fought their way to Earth before performing the time-jump, instead of making the jump from the safety of their own territory. The answer is that a time-jump would move the travellers to a divergent timeline but it would have no effect on the original timeline. Therefore, it would do the Collective no good. You might ask why they performed the jump at all if this is the case, but the Queen's attack had failed and she was facing imminent destruction. A jump into a divergent timeline would not change history in her original timeline, but she may have found the prospect preferable to simply being destroyed by one of Picard's quantum torpedoes.


"Yesterday's Enterprise": History seems to change when the Enterprise-C appears two decades away from where it was supposed to be destroyed in battle. But the original timeline is not gone, and in the new timeline, Guinan can actually perceive that the Enterprise-C belongs to a timeline other than her own (she can even perceive some of the history of that timeline). This perception manifests itself as a disquieting sensation that something is "wrong", but that's an oversimplification. After all, how can a timeline be "wrong?" With countless timelines in existence as seen in "Parallels", why would one be more "right" or "wrong" than another? A better explanation is that Guinan perceived enough of the Enterprise-C's original timeline to know that she thought it was better than the one she was currently in. We jumped to a divergent timeline when the Enterprise-C arrived and we jumped to another divergent timeline when it departed.


Although the "many worlds" theory may have been discredited in real life, it seems to be the only way to explain Star Trek time travel as we've seen it on the show. It explains causality paradoxes in "City on the Edge of Forever" and STFC, and it also explains why time travel is not being used to solve problems, because it means that time travel doesn't really change anything. It only moves the traveller into an alternate universe where events unfold more to his liking. An interesting consequence of this explanation is that we've really been following a group of characters as they move from timeline to timeline, so we haven't stayed in a single universe throughout the series run of Star Trek.


 


stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this May. 02 2012, 9:42 pm

Quote: ___Lucifer___ @ May. 02 2012, 9:21 pm

>

>More examples (special thanks to Michael Wong@SD.net) of Parallel universe time travel:

>"City on the Edge of Forever": When Doctor McCoy jumped through the time portal, the other crewmembers on the planet's surface perceived the sudden disappearance of the entire Federation. Supposedly, he changed the past so that the Federation was never created. But that is impossible because the other crewmen still existed. They still had memories of the Federation. They still had Federation uniforms and Federation weapons. The "many worlds" theory neatly explains this problem: McCoy and all of the people on the planet's surface were all transported into a timeline (or parallel universe, whichever you prefer) in which the Federation never existed. The original timeline is not destroyed, thus explaining why they still remember its history, but they can no longer perceive it or return to it. When Kirk and Spock jumped back to "fix the damage", they caused everyone to jump into another timeline, in which the Federation was founded again, but with slightly different events surrounding Edith Keeler's death. This is not the same as "going home", but as far as they're concerned, it's good enough.

>"Star Trek First Contact": When the Borg jumped into the past, the crew of the Enterprise perceived the disappearance of the Federation's entire history. This is impossible because they still exist, and they still retain all of their memories, equipment, history files, etc. Data suggests that they were somehow "shielded from the changes in the timeline", but he doesn't even attempt an explanation of how this is possible. The "many worlds" theory provided a neater explanation: they were dragged into a new timeline by the Borg sphere's "temporal wake", and when they stayed in the wake long enough to perform a similar jump, they ended up in yet another timeline. In this new timeline, they tried to "fix" events so that they unfolded more or less as they remembered (albeit with an orbital bombardment of Cochrane's launch facility which didn't occur in their original history). Note that the "many worlds" theory also explains the biggest conundrum of STFC: why the Borg fought their way to Earth before performing the time-jump, instead of making the jump from the safety of their own territory. The answer is that a time-jump would move the travellers to a divergent timeline but it would have no effect on the original timeline. Therefore, it would do the Collective no good. You might ask why they performed the jump at all if this is the case, but the Queen's attack had failed and she was facing imminent destruction. A jump into a divergent timeline would not change history in her original timeline, but she may have found the prospect preferable to simply being destroyed by one of Picard's quantum torpedoes.

>"Yesterday's Enterprise": History seems to change when the Enterprise-C appears two decades away from where it was supposed to be destroyed in battle. But the original timeline is not gone, and in the new timeline, Guinan can actually perceive that the Enterprise-C belongs to a timeline other than her own (she can even perceive some of the history of that timeline). This perception manifests itself as a disquieting sensation that something is "wrong", but that's an oversimplification. After all, how can a timeline be "wrong?" With countless timelines in existence as seen in "Parallels", why would one be more "right" or "wrong" than another? A better explanation is that Guinan perceived enough of the Enterprise-C's original timeline to know that she thought it was better than the one she was currently in. We jumped to a divergent timeline when the Enterprise-C arrived and we jumped to another divergent timeline when it departed.

>Although the "many worlds" theory may have been discredited in real life, it seems to be the only way to explain Star Trek time travel as we've seen it on the show. It explains causality paradoxes in "City on the Edge of Forever" and STFC, and it also explains why time travel is not being used to solve problems, because it means that time travel doesn't really change anything. It only moves the traveller into an alternate universe where events unfold more to his liking. An interesting consequence of this explanation is that we've really been following a group of characters as they move from timeline to timeline, so we haven't stayed in a single universe throughout the series run of Star Trek


I've made these same argument,and have seen that artical, the problem is that none of the evidence is 100% postive.


City on the eger of forever..........Spock spoke of conological energy coming from the planet and the gurdian, basicly a form of time radiation.Such energy could have protected the away team from the changes in history, basicly taking therm out side of ther normal space time continueim.


So, ofcorse they would maintain their uniforms, mrmories.


First Contact........Data explained why they werent effect, the Borg time traverl method cfreted a temporal way which protected thrm from the changes in history


Photobucket

Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum