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Why don't you just shoot it?

aasimilatedtrill

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POSTS: 55

Report this Apr. 25 2012, 6:37 pm

Before I started writing this, I was watching a season 5 episode of Voyager called "Infinite Regress". A Borg cube was destroyed by a biological virus that attacks technology. The vinculum survives, and sends a signal through space to Seven of Nine who begins experiencing the Borg equivalent of Multiple Personality Disorder. At the part I'm at, B'Ellana has just called up to the Bridge to say that the Engineering crew was ready to begin disabling the vinculum, and I said, as I always do in situations like this, "Why don't you just shoot it?" Of course Janeway could be opting to not obliviate it so that they could learn more about the collective, but I'm thinking that's actually very stupid. The virus inside of that thing? What if it's like a flea and will jump to the next available drone or piece of technology it encounters? That could harm both Seven and/or Voyager's systems, which is not good at all. Besides, if Janeway wants to learn something about the collective, she has her friendly, neighborhood Seven of Nine to ask. And this is just a VOY situation. There are loads more in TNG and DS9. Probably ENT, too. So what's the deal with all this procrastination and inefficiency? In short, "Why don't you just shoot it?"


Please tell me I'm not the only one who thought of this.


Mitchz95

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Report this Apr. 25 2012, 8:35 pm

I always assumed destroying it could damage Seven's cortical node and harm her.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

aasimilatedtrill

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Report this Apr. 26 2012, 7:10 am

Quote: Mitchz95 @ Apr. 25 2012, 8:35 pm

>

>I always assumed destroying it could damage Seven's cortical node and harm her.

>


No, it shouldn't. It's a subspace signal. If a ship transmits a distress call and the ship is destroyed all except for the signal emitter, the signal should still be emitted, in theory. But if the emitter is destroyed, then the signal would be cut off. So with the vinculum, when it's destroyed, the signla would stop being emitted and Seven would once again begin functioning as Seven of Nine. As it is, when B'Ellana and Tuvok attempted to shut it down "the Starfleet way", it simply increased the power and Seven's own neural engrams were still degrading as the engrams of everyone else in that Borg head of hers brought themselves forward. And while I will admit that since no one on the ship except for Seven had ever handled a vinculum before and would not know how to shut it off while at the same time reventing the power increase, if they had simply done it "the Maquis way" and shot it, there would have been a very good chance that the signla would have stopped transmitting and the whole mess would have been averted. Inefficient and illogical. 


'Impossible' is a word that humans use far too often.

DATAWORFfantotally

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Report this Apr. 26 2012, 8:49 am

probably was done for effect and tears from the audience (wrong tears, they're actually crying over contenuity eerors)


NOTHING THAT IS REAL IS REAL!

aasimilatedtrill

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Report this Apr. 26 2012, 9:10 am

Yeah, I can believe that one. There were a lot of things done for effect. I'll have to watch the episode over again to see if Seven explains why they can't just detroy it. 


It looks like they didn't. I found a site with just the dialouge, and Seven says nothing.


KIM: I'm picking up the source of the interlink frequency. Bearing oh two seven mark three. 
JANEWAY: On screen. Magnify. 
SEVEN: It's a Borg vinculum. 
CHAKOTAY: Vinculum? 
SEVEN: The processing device at the core of every Borg vessel. It interconnects the minds of all the drones. It purges individual thoughts and disseminates information relevant to the Collective. 
JANEWAY: It brings order to chaos. 
SEVEN: Precisely. 
JANEWAY: Looks like this one has established a link to your cortical implant. 
SEVEN: I believe it has identified me as an errant drone. It is attempting to re-integrate me into the Collective. The vinculum is malfunctioning. It is sending me erratic commands. 
TUVOK: Bringing chaos to order. 
SEVEN: Yes. 
JANEWAY: Can you sever the link? 
SEVEN: Not without risking permanent damage to my own systems. The vinculum must be taken offline. Permission to beam it aboard for analysis. I have worked with this technology before, I may be able to disable it. 
JANEWAY: We're talking about the heart of a Borg cube. I'd rather not take it inside my ship. Can you disable it remotely? 
SEVEN: Yes, but I would need several days. The Borg may return by then. I recommend we take the vinculum and leave this region immediately. 
JANEWAY: Tuvok, prepare to beam it to Engineering. Erect a level ten forcefield and maintain constant surveillance. The moment it poses a threat, send it back into space. Tom, as soon as it's aboard, get us out of here. Warp nine. 




Oh wait, Seven does say why they don't just destroy it. It would risk permanent damage to her systems.
But still, there are hundreds of instances in Voyager where they could just shoot something and eradicate the conflict.

'Impossible' is a word that humans use far too often.

miklamar

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Report this Apr. 27 2012, 1:14 pm

The purpose of Starfleet is to explore new areas of space and meet any new creatures or races they find--not to blast anything that bugs them!  The people of the 24th century were more peaceful than that!


Var Miklama--Zakdorn, engineer. "A sound mind in a FULL body!" "Time, like latinum, is a limited quantity in the galaxy."

aasimilatedtrill

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Report this Apr. 28 2012, 8:24 am

Well, I'm not talking about potentially peaceful things that they just encountered. I'm talking about things they know are dangerous and/or have a reputation of being dangerous. Like if the Kazon had tactical probes and Voyager encountered one. If you were in that situation, would you let the probe repeatedly scan your ship and send tactical data back to whatever Kazon sect sent it out, or would you destroy it and keep the upper hand in the battle against the Kazon? It's a similar thing with the vinculum. It's harming Seven, right? Right. Before asking Seven whether or not she could disable the signal, Janeway asked ifshe could sever the link. Whether that's by as primitive a means as throwing replicated rocks at it or blasting it with a photon torpedo, her first idea was to sever the link. I'm not saying that Voyager should have shot everything in sight. I'm simply saying that they might have been a little less welcoming and expressed a little more caution.



'Impossible' is a word that humans use far too often.

stovokor2000-A

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Report this Apr. 28 2012, 10:44 pm

shooting first at anything isint always the answer


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aasimilatedtrill

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Report this Apr. 30 2012, 5:25 am

No, and I get that. But there are times when whatever organism Voyager encounters decides to really do a lot of damage to the ship and they decide to not see it as a hostile life form and blow its brains out. Picard is smarter in that situation because he expresses caution whenever he encounters a new life form whose intentions are unknown or hostile. And only twice did Picard regret it. And both times he was justified. I'm not saying Voyager's policy should have been shoot first and ask questions later. That would make Voyager a contradiction in terms. We're following the Federation's policy, but we're shooting anything that comes across our path. No. But granted, if they had acted that way with the Kazon, it might have solved a boatload of problems. Anyway, I'm saying they should have had a more cautious attitude. "Ask questions first and shoot later." After all, they were in an unknown area of space facing several species with unknown intent and unknown strength. They could have been a little less gung-ho and run a few dozen sensor sweeps and had a few dozen commuications before diving into the next conflict.



 


'Impossible' is a word that humans use far too often.

Anime Odo

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Report this Apr. 30 2012, 2:46 pm

Janeway cares about the lives of all members of the crew on an enemy ship good or bad, so thas why she doesn't just shoot (unless they are truly intent on destroying Voyager) It is always a last resort!


"I don't believe in luck, but I appreciate the sentiment." - Odo

aasimilatedtrill

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Report this May. 01 2012, 7:28 am

Yes, when it's a manned vessel, I'm not saying she should shoot first. I've said that before. But she could have expressed more caution. And with an unmanned vessel, then the minute it showed a problem, she could shoot it, and cause minimal damage. Tuvok is excellent. He can fire a phaser with the right amplitude so that it merely disables the unmanned vessel. And I just thought of another thing. It's been a while since I've seen the episode, but I'm thinking about Dreadnought. Dreadnought was a Cardassian warhead reprogrammed by the Maquis to bomb a Cardassian colony. But Caretaker captured it, and it got confused and began heading for the wrong target. And I think Voyager ended up destroying it anyway. If they had just shot a photon torpedo at it in the first place, it would have avoided a bunch of problems. Dreadnought tried to kill B'Ellana, and would have probably succeeded if B'Ellana wasn't one of the title characters. Janeway could have shot it in that instance. 



'Impossible' is a word that humans use far too often.

Mitchz95

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Report this May. 01 2012, 8:54 am

^ If they'd fired at Dreadnought on sight, it would've identified Voyager as a threat and quite possibly returned fire.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

Hugues

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Report this May. 01 2012, 10:56 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Apr. 28 2012, 10:44 pm

>

>shooting first at anything isint always the answer

>


Hehe, not really a Klingon philosofy.


DS9 RULES!!!!!

___Lucifer___

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Report this May. 01 2012, 11:03 pm

I'm reminded of an old Trek bumper sticker... "There is no problem in the galaxy that cannot be solved by a suitable application of concentrated phaser fire."


aasimilatedtrill

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Report this May. 05 2012, 8:33 am

Yes, exactly. See, __Lucifer__ gets it! He gets my point. When diplomacy fails, you shoot it. You don't keep trying diplomacy. Last night, I was watching "Message in a Bottle" with my mom, the episode where the Doctor transfers himself to the Prometheus and has a battle with the Romulans. It was also the instance of First Contact with the Hirogen. Janeway was trying diplomacy with the Hirogen, but diplomacy wasn't working, so Seven shocked him. "It was a mild shock. He will recover." And while it got them in trouble with the Hirogen, it wasn't any more trouble than thy would have gotten into if they hadn't shocked the first guy. The Hirogen are like the Borg: It doesn't matter what you did to them. They seek to get rid of you. It's in their nature. It is what they do. 



'Impossible' is a word that humans use far too often.

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