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Live And Let Live

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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POSTS: 46304

Report this Apr. 25 2012, 10:19 am

And some people separate the act from the person.  Just because a person doesn't approve of it makes them phobic or hateful.

Corwin8

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Report this Apr. 25 2012, 10:20 am

I only hate one group of people .


 


Stupid people.


 


 So sometimes there is some self loathing going on as we all are stupid at some point.


It's the constantly stupid I can do without. Those possesing Weapons Grade Stupidity are the most dangerous. 


After that I tend to judge people on actions and merit, not color, gender or orientation. 


Let the bridges I burn light the way. You are special, just like everybody else. Calling an illegal alien an ‘undocumented immigrant’ is like calling a drug dealer an ‘unlicensed pharmacist’

Roboto

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Report this Apr. 25 2012, 11:52 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Apr. 25 2012, 10:19 am

>

>And some people separate the act from the person.  Just because a person doesn't approve of it makes them phobic or hateful.

>



That's not to say that there aren't "haters" of anything or anyone, because there are, but it seems to me that certain groups of people automatically label disaproval as "hate". No. Just because there are moral disagreements that run deep, it does not constitute as "hate". If I believe that something is morally wrong then no, I am not going to support it, but that hardly means that I am going to start attacking people for making their own choices.


 


Roboto

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Report this Apr. 25 2012, 12:04 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>And some people separate the act from the person.  Just because a person doesn't approve of it makes them phobic or hateful.

>
I would argue that a homosexual is living up to his or her own nature and by disapproving their actions is in itself an act of hatred.


With that same logic I could argue that since it is in a kleptomaniac's nature to steal things that it is "hatred" to disapprove of their thieving behavior.


Hatred: Intense dislike or ill will


Synonyms: odium - enmity - loathing - animosity - detestation


Disapproval: Possession or expression of an unfavorable opinion


Synonyms: disapprobation - deprecation - disfavour 



To try and say that these two concepts are the same is ludicrious.


Two of my oldest family friends, to whom I am very close and would trust with my life in a second, are gay. Due to my religious and moral beliefs I strongly believe that a marriage between two people of the same sex is wrong, but do I hate my gay friends? No. I do not approve of their lifestyle choice but I love them all the same. What they do is between them and God.


lostshaker

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Report this Apr. 25 2012, 12:09 pm

Oh, Corwin8, I love that statement, "Weapons Grade Stupidity" LOL!


In America, the lack of free markets and the erosion of liberty is a contributing factor to your question, resistance. Take public schools for an example... unless a parent can afford private schooling/tutoring, children are forced by legislative decre to attend these institutions. Government legislation is notorious for its invention in the market and the unintended consequences that result. The unintended consequences, in this case, applies to confining children with different and sometimes conflicting philosophical, religous, moral, ethical... etc. beliefs into one location. Head to head confrontations become inevitable and typically result in an affirmation of their initial beliefs rather than a reversal.


The above contrasts to a free market where all interactions are voluntary. Anyone raised with a bias is free to segregate themselves from an individual or group with values deemed personally offensive. The reverse is also true that an individual is free to interact with individuals and groups of differing values.  An individual is more likely to overcome personal bias at his/her own pace under a free market than under an environment of coercion that is so often typical of Government. The free market has a trend of minimizing violence through productivity over the long-term. Government has a history of fostering violence in order to promote the necessity of itself.

OtakuJo

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Report this Apr. 25 2012, 12:10 pm

It's a cultural thing. Homophobia is so deeply ingrained in our history (remember homosexuality used to be listed as a mental disorder, and in a lot of sacred texts as a sin) and that level of historical baggage is hard to let go for many people.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

randy kerr

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Report this Apr. 25 2012, 1:07 pm

 the whole world needs to clean up its act.


i love all star trek shows and movies.

miklamar

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Report this Apr. 25 2012, 1:10 pm

Of course, many religions preach against homosexuality--including my religion.  To me the problem with homosexuality is that it doesn't confine itself to the individuals who wish to practise it consensually.  Those who are homosexuals want to expand their network, trying to proselytize others who do not wish to become part of their network.


And, homosexuals want their lifestyle choices to be accepted as mainstream activities (portrayed favorably on television, in films, etc.) and may--I can't say for certain, because I don't know--wish their option to be taught in schools.


You cannot legislate morality in this world, and people are going to do whatever they wish to do in privacy, but I think that homosexuality is not a lifestyle to which children should be exposed.


Var Miklama--Zakdorn, engineer. "A sound mind in a FULL body!" "Time, like latinum, is a limited quantity in the galaxy."

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Apr. 25 2012, 1:33 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>And some people separate the act from the person.  Just because a person doesn't approve of it makes them phobic or hateful.

>
I would argue that a homosexual is living up to his or her own nature and by disapproving their actions is in itself an act of hatred.
You could argue that, but since pretty much every religion calls it sinful....  While I believe that certain religions "response" to it is hateful, it doesn't remove the original issue.  To me, it's no different than choosing to do any other sin.  Yes, we all sin, but do we all choose to commit the same sin again and again and again?  Some do, some don't.


To most Christians, God is love, but while He loves the person, he hates the sin.


Outside of religion/morality, there is a reason for heterosexuality, but there is no value for homosexuality.


Sidenote: Why is it that homosexuals are trying to force churches to marry them if it's against the religion's views?


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Apr. 25 2012, 1:41 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>Roboto I do see your point but there is a fundamental differance between a kleptomaniac and a homosexual in that a homosexual isn't hurting anyone by there actions.
That depends on how you define as "hurting anyone by there [sic] actions".... To people that believe in the sanctity of marriage, anything equated to it but isn't the same violates it.


To me, it's like taking a whole bunch of non-working parts from the junkyard, throwing them in a heap and calling it a new Bugatti.  When you have an equation, say 1+2=3, you cannot change the variables (1+1 or 2+2) and get the same results.


Roboto

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Report this Apr. 25 2012, 2:06 pm

"Roboto I do see your point but there is a fundamental differance between a kleptomaniac and a homosexual in that a homosexual isn't hurting anyone by there actions."


Of course- I was just using a kleptomaniac in an effort to demonstrate that just because something may be in a person's "nature" does not necessarily make it acceptable. Just because someone has homosexual preferences does not make it "right" or "proper" in others' eyes, especially in a religious context... and there is no gay gene that a person is born with, as studies have already proven. The tendencies and preferences may exist, but it is not an uncontrollable urge or disorder. Homosexuality is a lifestyle choice that many find wrong or sinful/immoral and something that cannot be compromised on.


"You are right. its ludicrous to say they are the same. You will notice that I didn't say they are. That is something you inferred."


Really? You said, I quote: "...disapproving their actions [the actions of homosexuals] is in itself an act of hatred." You just said, in that statement, that disapproval is a hateful action. That's not inferrered, that's what you said. If that is not what you meant, then you were not clear.


"To give me meanings of words is pointless as I know the meaning of hatred and disapproval."


I apologize if I offended, but I posted the meanings as because it was far from clear that you did, indeed, understand the difference, and I wanted to make the differences completely clear. From your previous statement, you seemed to argue that disapproval is birthed from  hatred which- I repeat- is ludicrious. A hateful person always disapproves, but a disapproving person is not always hateful. That's the point I'm trying to get across.


"You cannot deny that some people hide their hatred behind the guise of morality. Don't get me wrong I'm not accusing anyone of anything."


No, I don't deny it, and in fact I agree with you completely. Terrible actions have been committed in the name of religion and/or morality- Christians, Muslims, etc. However, if someone believes in their heart that homosexuality is wrong because of their beliefs, that does not automatically consitute or produce hatred, as in my case. There is the separation of the "Who" from the "Do". I love my gay friends, even though I do not condone their actions. It's as simple as that.


xXLadyDataXx

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Report this Apr. 25 2012, 2:33 pm

All I can say is let the gay people be. Just as long as I am not gay that's fine with me 


xXLadyDataXx

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Report this Apr. 25 2012, 2:38 pm

May I add from what I've learned about the gay community there are 2 types of gays. 


1. Masculine Gay which is the type of gay guy who loves manly things like wrestling, action movies, lefting weights in the gym, etc


2. You're stereotypical gay guy who has feminine like qualities and behavior.


xXLadyDataXx

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Report this Apr. 25 2012, 2:40 pm

May I ask is gay an offensive term for homosexuals? For sure in Mexico I know it is.


wissa

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Report this Apr. 25 2012, 2:47 pm

a person's sexual orientation is irrelevent to anyone they are not sleeping with.  It is simply none of your business. 


and it is impossible to "love" people yet hate their "lifesltyle".  Seriously, what kind a sadist even would want a friend like that?     You just don't get to choose what other adults do or who they sleep with.  Amusing how the people who claim liberty and freedom for all don't grasp that basic concept.


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