ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

Was Kirk's Enterprise the Federation Flagship

Garfield-Nut

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 92

Report this Apr. 21 2012, 11:41 am

Was Kirk's Enterprise in The Original Series TV show, before the first movie, was it considered the Federation Flagship

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Apr. 21 2012, 7:57 pm

I do not recall Kirks enterprise ever being called a flagship, not even in the films


Photobucket

___Lucifer___

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1142

Report this Apr. 21 2012, 8:43 pm

I don't think that status was granted until the TNG era.


Vger23

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6799

Report this Apr. 21 2012, 9:26 pm

There is no evidence one way or another in Trek canon. I will say, however, that the fact that various Constitution class starships were commanded by Commodores where the Enterprise was commanded by a Captain seems to make it somewhat unlikely. 

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Apr. 22 2012, 6:48 am

2 out of 13 [?] is not what I would lable "various"


Photobucket

Vger23

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6799

Report this Apr. 22 2012, 10:29 am

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Apr. 22 2012, 6:48 am

>

>2 out of 13 [?] is not what I would lable "various"

>


 


That's nice. Thanks for your input.


I AM KEE-ROCK!!

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Apr. 22 2012, 11:44 am

would you prefer I just tell you your wrong?

Vger23

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6799

Report this Apr. 22 2012, 5:02 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Apr. 22 2012, 11:44 am

>

>would you prefer I just tell you your wrong?

>


 


 


I'd prefer that you not be a pompous jackass for no good reason. It's "some," "several," "a few," "a couple," "a number of..." etc... I simply meant "more than one."


You knew all that I meant was that there were other Constitution-class ships commanded by people who held higher ranks. Why are you choosing to bust my ass about my use of words? Lawyer much?


We only met 4 total Consitution-class starship commanders during the time of TOS. 2 were Captains (James Kirk and Ronald Tracy) and 2 were Commodores (Robert Wesley and Matthew Decker). We know the unnamed commander of the USS Defiant was a Captain based on dialoge in "The Tholian Web" and "A Mirror Darkly." That means that 40% of the commanding officers we know about are Commodores. I don't count Christopher Pike, because that was not during the same timeframe.


My point was simply that, even though there was no canon evidence either way, one could make an assumption that the Enterprise was not a flagship duirng the original series because it would be logical to assume that a flagship would have a more senior officer aboard her. Since the rank of Commodore has disappeared by the time of "Wrath of Khan," you don't need to make the same argument about the Enterprise-D. So, I was simply trying to help the original poster by doing my best to apply logic to the question that was asked. Why try to bust my balls for simply doing that?


Also, if you're going to be a holier-than-thou pain in the ass looking for a fight, you should probably do two key things:


1. Spell "you're" correctly while doing it. It's much more effective.


2. It's even MORE effective if you understand the definition of the word you're attempting to make me look foolish for using (A word I used CORRECTLY, by the way):


 


VARIOUS: Of an indefinite number greater than one. Individual, separate.


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/various


 


 


 So, you were going to tell me that I'm wrong, were you not? I'm looking forward to that, ace.


 


I AM KEE-ROCK!!

cochrane2063

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 207

Report this Apr. 22 2012, 11:55 pm

Makes you wonder what the Commodore to Captain ratio is.


"We keep doing each other favors." "Isn't that how alliances are born?" Jonathan Archer and Thy'lek Shran

robapel

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 26

Report this Apr. 23 2012, 12:27 am

I don't believe it was at the time. The Constitution class was the top of the line but there were a total of 14 of them in the fleet. So to single out one single one of those and call it the flagship just seems unlikely. Even if you want to say because it was commanded by Kirk is why it was a flagship, it would not have been right away. I think after a few years after a few of the other Consitution class ships were destroyed and as Kirk proved himself to be an exceptional Captain was when they started to consider it their flagship. But then, as mentioned, I don't believe I heard it referenced as such until TNG either. Even then it may not have been such until the 2nd Galaxy class ship was destroyed too. Just not sure about the time lines on that one.

OneDamnMinuteAdmiral

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1401

Report this Apr. 23 2012, 3:27 am

I never understood why the Ent-D was considered a flagship anyway. Isn't a flagship only a flagship when an Admiral (or Commodore) is onboard? Or did it somehow change meanings in the future?


To the original question though I don't think Kirk's ship was one mainly because Kirk was a fairly new Captain  thus wouldn't have the senority to be granted a flagship under however they define them in the future.


Are you sure it isn't time for a colorful metaphor?

CloudMinder2

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 482

Report this Apr. 23 2012, 9:59 am

This is interesting, because whilst I agree that there's no mention of it being a flagship, and there are other ships of the same class, nevertheless I always got the impression that there was something special about the Enterprise, for the following reasons:

-Scotty says he designed at least some parts of the ship, and he is its serving chief engineer - the special esteem in which he holds that particular ship implies there's something special about it

-in 'The Ultimate Computer' the Enterprise appears to have the measure of several other Constitution class ships

Ok, that's only two things off the top of my head but I'm sure there are other points when the reason the Enterprise is given certain missions etc is because it's better/faster - or maybe it's just my impression?

"There are always alternatives" Spock

Vger23

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6799

Report this Apr. 23 2012, 10:12 am

Quote: CloudMinder2 @ Apr. 23 2012, 9:59 am

>This is interesting, because whilst I agree that there's no mention of it being a flagship, and there are other ships of the same class, nevertheless I always got the impression that there was something special about the Enterprise, for the following reasons: -Scotty says he designed at least some parts of the ship, and he is its serving chief engineer - the special esteem in which he holds that particular ship implies there's something special about it -in 'The Ultimate Computer' the Enterprise appears to have the measure of several other Constitution class ships Ok, that's only two things off the top of my head but I'm sure there are other points when the reason the Enterprise is given certain missions etc is because it's better/faster - or maybe it's just my impression?


 


I'm not sure this is true.


I don't recall Scotty ever saying he had anything to do with the design of the Enterprise, at least not during the original series. I know he revered and respected Larry Marvick (Is There In Truth No Beauty) as being one of the designers, though. That would seem to imply that he did NOT have anything to do with it.


I don't think the Enterprise was superior to the Potempkin, Lexington, or Excalibur in "The Ultimate Computer." I just think the Enterprise, because she was being controlled by a super-smart, super-fast homicidal computer and because the attack surprised the other ships, happened to get the jump on them and gain a quick upper hand.


I don't necessarily think that the Enterprise got all the best missions. We only saw what we saw on the TV series. I'd bet that the other Constitution-class ships in the fleet got equally challenging and impactful missions. It's a big galaxy, afterall.


 


EDIT: By the way...not trying to challenge...just trying to engage in interesting conversation on the topic!


I AM KEE-ROCK!!

CloudMinder2

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 482

Report this Apr. 23 2012, 11:16 am

Hey Vger, no worries, i take your point, i'm actually not that sure of my facts on this one - just that it's the impression i had


on Scotty, i'm sure he say he either designed or built the engines or something - or maybe i'm just thinking of him saying he knows every nut and bolt etc


i'm not doing my trekkie credentials any good here am i!


"There are always alternatives" Spock

Vger23

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6799

Report this Apr. 23 2012, 12:25 pm

Quote: CloudMinder2 @ Apr. 23 2012, 11:16 am

>

>Hey Vger, no worries, i take your point, i'm actually not that sure of my facts on this one - just that it's the impression i had

>on Scotty, i'm sure he say he either designed or built the engines or something - or maybe i'm just thinking of him saying he knows every nut and bolt etc

>i'm not doing my trekkie credentials any good here am i!

>


No, it's still possible you're right. I KNOW that he said "We just spent 18 months redesigning and refitting the Enterprise." in Star Trek- The Motion Picture, which certainly implies (if not outright verifies) that Scott was involved in that redesign process. I just couldn't recall any lines in TOS that spoke about the original Constitution design!


"Credentials" usually aren't worth the paper they're printed on, my friend! I don't think anyone worth a darn is going to hold it against you if you're wrong. Half of enjoying the show is filling in the gaps on your own as a fan anyway! Sounds like that's all you've been trying to do here...!


 


I AM KEE-ROCK!!

Recently logged in

Users browsing this forum: JOYOFVGR

Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum