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Mind melds in Enterprise

cochrane2063

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Report this Apr. 21 2012, 2:01 am

It seems to me that there is a rather odd discrepancy about the portrayal of mind melds between Enterprise and the other series and movies, particularly The Undiscovered Country. I'm not talking about anything that would have changed due to the events of The Forge/Awakening/Kirshara. I'm talking about the intimacy. First, or last, you have T'Pol being forced to meld with Tolaris being described as an assault, when just 142 years later (remember the long Vulcan lifespans), Valeris being forced to meld with Spock (clearly against her will) is not even compared to an assault. Am I missing something, or were the writers of "Fusion" and "Stigma"?

"We keep doing each other favors." "Isn't that how alliances are born?" Jonathan Archer and Thy'lek Shran

Broadstorm

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Report this Apr. 21 2012, 4:08 am

Good question.  It may be that during the timespan which included Fusion & Stigma, because most of the Vulcans considered it such a deviant practice that that was considered a greater offense than the forced aspect.  Soval lost his position just for admitting to being able to do it, but after the Kir'Shara was found, and they were able to follow the undistorted teachings of Surak, who was a melder, that the practice became acceptable.  Even though being forced in an effort to prevent a major conflict would have been considered an assault, it may be that the complaint of someone charged with treason just didn't really have much bearing on anything.  Even if her complaint was acted on, we don't see Spock again after TUC for several decades anyway, so maybe he could have faced some repercussions that probably would have just been a slap on the wrist.


 

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Apr. 21 2012, 5:22 pm

I'm also wondering if it had to do with the type of meld.  I think with T'Pol, it was more personal while with Valeris, it was for information.


stovokor2000-A

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Report this Apr. 21 2012, 7:35 pm

it may not have been mentioned on screan.............but I always felt that Spocks mind meld with Valaris was portrayed as an assult;


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cochrane2063

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Report this Apr. 22 2012, 7:32 pm

Quote: Broadstorm @ Apr. 21 2012, 4:08 am

>

>Good question.  It may be that during the timespan which included Fusion & Stigma, because most of the Vulcans considered it such a deviant practice that that was considered a greater offense than the forced aspect.  Soval lost his position just for admitting to being able to do it, but after the Kir'Shara was found, and they were able to follow the undistorted teachings of Surak, who was a melder, that the practice became acceptable.  Even though being forced in an effort to prevent a major conflict would have been considered an assault, it may be that the complaint of someone charged with treason just didn't really have much bearing on anything.  Even if her complaint was acted on, we don't see Spock again after TUC for several decades anyway, so maybe he could have faced some repercussions that probably would have just been a slap on the wrist.

>
You're probably right, but I don't think Spock faced any repercussions. Not that he wouldn't normally, but doesn't McCoy or someone say that "they're not going to press charges" at the end of TUC?


"We keep doing each other favors." "Isn't that how alliances are born?" Jonathan Archer and Thy'lek Shran

cochrane2063

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Report this Apr. 22 2012, 7:40 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Apr. 21 2012, 5:22 pm

>

>I'm also wondering if it had to do with the type of meld.  I think with T'Pol, it was more personal while with Valeris, it was for information.

>
True enough. That would also help reconcile melds in ENT with the fact that Spock seems to do a mind meld with every third alien the TOS crew meet (including a machine)!


"We keep doing each other favors." "Isn't that how alliances are born?" Jonathan Archer and Thy'lek Shran

Camorite

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Report this Apr. 28 2012, 5:20 am

Quote: cochrane2063 @ Apr. 22 2012, 7:32 pm

Quote: Broadstorm @ Apr. 21 2012, 4:08 am

>

>Good question.  It may be that during the timespan which included Fusion & Stigma, because most of the Vulcans considered it such a deviant practice that that was considered a greater offense than the forced aspect.  Soval lost his position just for admitting to being able to do it, but after the Kir'Shara was found, and they were able to follow the undistorted teachings of Surak, who was a melder, that the practice became acceptable.  Even though being forced in an effort to prevent a major conflict would have been considered an assault, it may be that the complaint of someone charged with treason just didn't really have much bearing on anything.  Even if her complaint was acted on, we don't see Spock again after TUC for several decades anyway, so maybe he could have faced some repercussions that probably would have just been a slap on the wrist.

>
You're probably right, but I don't think Spock faced any repercussions. Not that he wouldn't normally, but doesn't McCoy or someone say that "they're not going to press charges" at the end of TUC?


They are referring to all the regulation violations that happened after kirk and McCoy were placed under arrest. Remember enterprise was ordered back to starbase, and instead they ignored orders and made an unauthorised and highly illegal trip into Klingon space. Now the mind meld may have been included in that, but as they didn't go into details we will never know for sure.

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lostshaker

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Report this May. 07 2012, 5:22 pm

it may not have been mentioned on screan.............but I always felt that Spocks mind meld with Valaris was portrayed as an assult;



Most definitely. She was screaming, clearly in pain. It would be difficult to argue that it wasn't an attack. 


Additionally, telepathic violence has been shown elsewhere in Trek, so involuntary mind melds would certainly apply.

OtakuJo

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Report this May. 09 2012, 1:15 am

First, or last, you have T'Pol being forced to meld with Tolaris being described as an assault, when just 142 years later (remember the long Vulcan lifespans), Valeris being forced to meld with Spock (clearly against her will) is not even compared to an assault.


I have to tell you in my own mind, I definitely saw that as an assault. A major reason they seemed to overlook that aspect of it all was that Spock was apparently one of the "good guys". Essentially you might even describe it as Spock committing an act of torture. That having been said, however -- think of our lifespans, and the shift in morals that can take place over a span of just 20-40 years.


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