Star Trek

How is it arrogant to say non canon materals dont have a place in a debate about canon matrial?

We were talking/debating about a particular sceen in the finished film.Not about the script,novel or comic adaptation but the film itself.

That means only canon source matrials are relevent to the dabate.

Thats FACT not an opinion.

I can't speak for Stovokor, but I think you're looking just a bit much into things Rusty.

Certainly my mind isn't twisting over the issue and it's definitely not effecting my life. I'd hope the same is true for him. 

But if it makes ya feel better...

Wanna make up Stovokor?

can we have cake and ice cream?

You're very sweet to be so considerate - but I do wonder - why do polite atheists worry about Christians but not Jews, Wiccans, Hindus, Moslems etc?

Christianity is the majority religion in Western culture -- I'm sure that many atheists raised in Israel, India, or Pakistan (for example) would feel similarly about the majority religion in their own country.

By the 24th century we should be able to figure out god is as above the rest of the universe as the Q is above humans.  You can't see god or feel it but it's everywhere.

Let's take the 2009 ST movie.

Nero's spikey doomsday mining ship comes out kills Kirk's daddy and baby Kirk escapes.

You really mean they just sat there twiddling their thumbs for 25+ years while they waited for Spock to arrive?

Read the books and it explains that the Kelvin damaged the Narada so much the Klingons were able to capture them, and that fleet of destroyed ships that Uhura mentioned was them escaping.

But that's not "canon" and so we're stuck with an inept villain who travels back in time and does nothing with it until plot devices allow all the main characters into the game.

The film gives a pretty good indication of wherfe Nero was.Uhura reports an attack/breakon a Klingon prison by an unknowe Romulan.47 klingon ships were derstroyed.

If the audiance couldnt peace the clues together from that I dont know what to say.

But that's not "canon" and so we're stuck with an inept villain who travels back in time and does nothing with it until plot devices allow all the main characters into the game.

Again, if the viewers couldnt put 2 & 2 together, then yes, canon wise they are left with out info.Its called bad writing/plot holes.

All jokes aside, its a good thing Geene had no say on whats canon, because if he had his way, Spocks death wouldnt be canon.

as for TAS, Paramount released a statement when the put out the DVD set, claiming it should be considered canon.But fans do as they want

Yeah, maybe they killed their "gods" but that's little g. And as much as I love Star Trek, its fiction.

So, no, they did not kill God.

God is God. You can't just kill Him.

Jesus Christ is God, and God DOES exist. Just look outside--- do you see an ocean? River? Canyon? What about flowers? And a rainbow? Do you feel the rain fall down softly? Have you ever seen a sunrise? Have you ever heard a bird chirp, or a child laugh? How can you deny the existance of God when there is so much beauty around you? And do you REALLY think that you evolved from an accident? How did a sunrise, or a child, or the ocean come from a giant accident?

If you look at a painting, do you think, "Oh, I wonder how that painting came into being? There must have been some accident. It must have painted itself,"

OR if you see a sculpture, do you think, "OH! Look at that pretty scuplture! I wonder how many years it took for it to evovle?"

Does a sandcastle build itself?? If you dump a container of blocks, does it form into a building on its own?

What about the human body? It's so perfect to suit all your needs.

And the brain? How complex is it????

What about the atmosphere? And the position of the earth? If it was in a different spot, we would be toast.

If you don't believe in God, I am concerned for your soul.

Only JESUS Christ, the One and Only God and Savior can give you eternal Salvation.

And if you don't agree, I pray God will soften your heart for you to see the truth.

I'm not going to get into the religious debate, IMO, the self-agrandizing propaganda has no place in Star Trek. Remember the IDIC principle?

But to answer the original question: No, they cannot prove either for or against.  The reason for my answer is quite simple.

Logic does NOT dictate that the negative must be proven, as one poster suggested. Ligic demands that proof be supplied before either positive or negative is accepted as fact.

The scientific method, however REQUIRES that the burden of proof lies with the positive and the negative must be assumed until the positive has been proven through testing of the hypothesis.

The existance of God (or gods, as some believe) by the definition of the very nature of God CANNOT be tested.  If you cannot conduct the test, you cannot provide the proof. Without proof, logic requires you to assume (but not necessarily accept as fact) the negative--in this case, there not being a God.

Then again, humans, and most Trek-universe aliens, are not very logical.

Those few aliens who passed as/were presumed to be God COULD BE, and usually WERE (will be?) tested. The result of those tests concluded that the aliens failed to meet the criteria of being God. (Especially since part of that criteria is omnicience and omnipresence, simply being able to be tested immediately disqualifies the subject.)

Personally... do I believe in God? Yes (gods, to be more descriptively accurate--I'm Pagan). Can I prove it? No. Can you disprove it? No. I'm okay with that. It's my faith, my belief... my own little contribution to the IDIC principle, and that's fine. My belief is not requisite on yours, nor the reverse.