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Humanoid Life, Universe Wide

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Created by: d36williams

d36williams

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POSTS: 5

Report this Apr. 18 2012, 11:31 am

When you consider evolution, there were many paths bodied animals could of taken, but generally they all evolved to have 4 limbs and a head. Similarly, there is great value in having 2 sexes but little in having 3. There is a narrow path that species can pass through that will lead them to the evolutionary path that ends at intelligence. That path has hands, a large brain, centeralized spatial sense organs, and many of the basic senses we have. Eye sight, smell, touch, balance and the rest will be required.


 


Imagine a species of dinosaurs evolving hands, and having a similar path to our ancestors. The dinosaurs would evolve large brains that jut out over their face. The Dino's noses would shrink, until it was under their forehead. Rough protrusions would evolve away as physiologically unhelpful. Burdensome bone structures would smooth out. In the end, smooth skin would be prefable to rough scaley skin, when the animals started using clothes. A dinosaur would evolve on a path that would make it look very human. Maybe even so close only a microscope can tell the difference. How different would our teeth really be? We'd both be eating like omnivores and so far we've seen little variation in teeth and body types among animals.


I don't believe sea living animals will ever develop tools, thus never calculos or anything like it. When we meet aliens for the first time, they will closesly resemble us, even in skin tone. All creatures need to absorb sunlight in degrees. So what do you think, that the aliens we encounter in the future will blow our mid with how radical they appear, or will they look as familar as Orion Slave Girls?


 


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miklamar

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Report this Apr. 19 2012, 9:12 am

Intelligent life just requires a brain and the other physical systems needed to survive.  On land, it could resemble any land animal, from insect-/spider-like to primate; in the water, it could resemble a cephalopod or a whale.  Or, it could look like something we've never seen before.


It is nice to think that there could be some diversity.


Var Miklama--Zakdorn, engineer. "A sound mind in a FULL body!" "Time, like latinum, is a limited quantity in the galaxy."

dryson

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Report this Apr. 21 2012, 11:54 am

Lets hope not. Procreating with a similar space based species that is different would be Universaly very satisfying.


Cigarette?


A bullfrog with a light in its belly is nothing more than a glutton looking to shine otherwise.

d36williams

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Report this Apr. 23 2012, 10:32 am

http://the-scientist.com/2012/04/19/synthetic-genetic-evolution/ This would be a chink in my scheme, if different chemicals altogether could for DNA strands, who knows what divergent protein structures could emerge.


 


However the article highlights that the contents of XNA aren't naturally occuring. So this gives me an idea; and it reminds me of some comments in the Star Trek book "Probe."


In Probe there are intellegent water based creatures. But these creatures evolved on land, but had a need so genetically engineered water capabilities. So maybe there are some body forms and appendages that we could identify as post-intellegence, the consequence of genetic engineering.

caltrek2

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Report this Apr. 26 2012, 6:30 pm

Quote: d36williams @ Apr. 18 2012, 11:31 am

>

>When you consider evolution, there were many paths bodied animals could of taken, but generally they all evolved to have 4 limbs and a head. Similarly, there is great value in having 2 sexes but little in having 3. There is a narrow path that species can pass through that will lead them to the evolutionary path that ends at intelligence. That path has hands, a large brain, centeralized spatial sense organs, and many of the basic senses we have. Eye sight, smell, touch, balance and the rest will be required.

>Imagine a species of dinosaurs evolving hands, and having a similar path to our ancestors. The dinosaurs would evolve large brains that jut out over their face. The Dino's noses would shrink, until it was under their forehead. Rough protrusions would evolve away as physiologically unhelpful. Burdensome bone structures would smooth out. In the end, smooth skin would be prefable to rough scaley skin, when the animals started using clothes. A dinosaur would evolve on a path that would make it look very human. Maybe even so close only a microscope can tell the difference. How different would our teeth really be? We'd both be eating like omnivores and so far we've seen little variation in teeth and body types among animals.

>I don't believe sea living animals will ever develop tools, thus never calculos or anything like it. When we meet aliens for the first time, they will closesly resemble us, even in skin tone. All creatures need to absorb sunlight in degrees. So what do you think, that the aliens we encounter in the future will blow our mid with how radical they appear, or will they look as familar as Orion Slave Girls?

>


1) I agree with your 2 versus 3 sexes.


2) "That path has hands, a large brain, centeralized spatial sense organs, and many of the basic senses we have."  Agreed.


3)  "Eye sight, smell, touch, balance and the rest will be required."  Probable, but required? 


Why, for example would smell be "required". If memory serves me correct, many breeds of dogs have far better develped sense of smell than humans. I suppose there is a stronger case for eye sight, but required? A lot of blind folks function quite well thank you - and if other senses are much better developed than in humans...


4) "We'd both be eating like omnivores and so far we've seen little variation in teeth and body types among animals."  Why would they necessarily be omnivores? It seems to me that both carnivores and plant eating life forms could be highly intelligent and benefit from the development of technology.


5) "The Dino's noses would shrink, until it was under their forehead."  I don't see why that would be inevitable.


 


OOOPs, I have just been given a honey do. I'll try to get back to this later.


Just my thoughts. I am certainly no expert on the subject, never having actually seen an intelligent alien and all.


 



As Americans, we sometimes suffer from too much pluribus and not enough unum. - Arthur Schelsinger, Jr.

caltrek2

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Report this Apr. 27 2012, 9:08 am

"I don't believe sea living animals will ever develop tools, thus never calculos or anything like it."


Well, the Sea Otter is largely an animal of the sea, yet it uses stones to break open abalone shells. Admittedly, some of its evolutionary history was on the land, but it is possible alien species will have equally complex evolutionary histories involving different habitats.


"When we meet aliens for the first time, they will closesly resemble us, even in skin tone. All creatures need to absorb sunlight in degrees."


Look at the tremendous variety of skin textures and tones among animals here on earth. I suppose as technology develops and the advantage of clothing is indulged in that would hve an affect on the evoltuionary path, but I don't quite see how that would inevitably be the same as the result for humans.


As I indicated in my previous post, no way to know these things for sure, so this is just my two cents for what it is worth.  Great idea for a topic though. It has been fun.


 


 


As Americans, we sometimes suffer from too much pluribus and not enough unum. - Arthur Schelsinger, Jr.

dryson

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Report this Apr. 27 2012, 9:20 am


Here is another place to look for life in the Universe.


I was reading in one of my Astronomy for Big Boys books that certain gases block out the harmfull UV rays from the sun.


If there are planets in an area of space where there are large gas clouds surrounding the planet and the sun is similar to our sun then there would most likely be some type of advanced lifeform on that planet for the simple fact that the gas clouds surrounding the planet would function the same way as the clouds we see in the sky everyday that block out the harmfull UV Radiation that causes our DNA to mutate.



Think of it this way the DNA of humans mutates because of the interaction of the UV Radiation that causes the DNA of humans to mutate thus giving the human its overall physiological design.


The clouds in the atmosphere block out the most harmfull radiation that would cause our DNA to mutate out of control into something like the monsters seen in Resident Evil.


Lets say a solar system exists like the SOl System that has a large gas cloud permiating the area between the habitable planet and the sun. A secondary layer of gas clouds would provide a primary boundary of protection that would shield the life on this planet from the sun that causes mutations in our DNA. When this occurs the DNA of the life on planet would not be affected in the same manner that our DNA is effected thus creating a completely different type of life form that would be different in appearence to what humans look like.


This type of life form would most likely live longer per individual because there would not be as much mutatation of the DNA that would cause stress on the rest of the bodies systems that eventually results in the bodies death.


This is basic science and the application of what I learned in High School.


 


 


A bullfrog with a light in its belly is nothing more than a glutton looking to shine otherwise.

dryson

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Report this Apr. 27 2012, 9:24 am

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/UVB/


Here is a link to how UV Radiation effect DNA.


I would also suggest reading on how clouds and gases absorb UV Radiation that would thus effect a lifeforms ability to be effected by harmful UV Radiation.


A bullfrog with a light in its belly is nothing more than a glutton looking to shine otherwise.

padracin

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Report this Apr. 28 2012, 7:24 pm

Agree with Miklamar that cephalopods-type sea creatures could develop intelligence.  Multiple flexible limbs have to be as useful as hands - you just need to be able to manipulate matter and energy.   I sometimes think that the reason we don't already have such beings on earth is that fire isn't experienced in the sea so the impetus to conceive of energy as a concept distinct from matter isn't there.  Additionally cephalopods follow a reproductive strategy of a great multitude of offspring with very little parental care - relying on probabilty to pass along genes.  That reproductive strategy probably doesn't allow the transmittal of culture.

dryson

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Report this May. 07 2012, 9:42 am

One such place to look in the Universe are areas that have roughly the same composition of gases floating freely in space.


I was thinking about this the other day after researching UV radiation and how the photons interact with gas particles.


Basically UV Radition or photons within a certain frequency range will interact with gas particles thus creating different results.


If we were to look for gaseous areas in the Universe that are comprised of the same gas compositions that comprise Earths atmosphere and a sun similar to our Sun is present that life could theoretically said to exist in the area.


 


A bullfrog with a light in its belly is nothing more than a glutton looking to shine otherwise.

Reliant Redshirt

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Report this May. 07 2012, 6:30 pm

evolution is basically a random event (you have a set of instructions to build an animal, then change something on them, if it works the mutant has tiny little mutants, if not, well he had the red shirt anyway), the luck of the animal depends directly on the environment and possible configurations (the cambric boom had so much variations of animals that the cantina in Mos Eisley looks moot), some change in the environment (don't ask me which, I don't know) led to a humungus extintion, and that what was left is what brought us here, if things had been a little different, we would look different, or there wouldn't be us at all.
considering that, finding a planet whose conditions were the exact same as here is rather low.
(darn! I would have fallen heads over heels for a Borg Queen or a Vulcan!)

Reliant Redshirt

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Report this May. 07 2012, 6:30 pm

evolution is basically a random event (you have a set of instructions to build an animal, then change something on them, if it works the mutant has tiny little mutants, if not, well he had the red shirt anyway), the luck of the animal depends directly on the environment and possible configurations (the cambric boom had so much variations of animals that the cantina in Mos Eisley looks moot), some change in the environment (don't ask me which, I don't know) led to a humungus extintion, and that what was left is what brought us here, if things had been a little different, we would look different, or there wouldn't be us at all.
considering that, finding a planet whose conditions were the exact same as here is rather low.
(darn! I would have fallen heads over heels for a Borg Queen or a Vulcan!)

d36williams

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Report this Jul. 20 2012, 8:15 am

http://arstechnica.com/science/2012/07/new-type-of-chemical-bond-may-form-in-extreme-magnetic-fields-of-stars/


So I'll add a new qualification -- life forms made of magnetically bonded molecules would be very different from humans.
 
There is also the post-intellegince life form, which may find radical genetic engineering more advantageous. Perhaps they'd choose to be a gelatanous mass. Lately for me this has grown to include synthesized humans -- ie genetic sequences simulated inside computers, so quickly, in a world emulator, that they develop human minds. They would be real people, but with digital bodies. They would have probably choose to live in our universe with bodies they design.

Check out my Star Trek tribute song http://bit.ly/I4EcHf

MoppyCGDaniels

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Report this Jul. 22 2012, 3:42 pm

Even though referring to mutation of the RNA or the influence from a star's UV-rays, who said that intelligent life could be a one arm, 1 head & 1 leg variaty?

caltrek2

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Report this Jul. 23 2012, 4:29 am

Al least two legs would seem necessary for balance, although worms and such crawl around with basicaly no legs. Two brains would seem uneccesarily complicated and therefore not something that evolution would allow. 


Agreed that especially for aquatic orgnaisms, two arms is somewhat arbitrary in that one or three or more arms might very well do the trick. 


Of course how you define what makes a brain affects the number of brains counted.  Arguably, humans don't have one brain, but rather a colony of differentiated brains that coordinate together to (usually) produce one consciousness.


Again, just my two speculative cents, nothing I would take to the bank.

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