ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

Fairness

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46342

Report this Apr. 18 2012, 1:53 pm

Quote: miklamar @ Apr. 18 2012, 12:44 pm

>

>To me, a flat-rate tax--the same percentage for everyone--sounds fair.  That way, no matter how much you earn, or how well you earn your income, you would be paying the same rate as every other taxpayer.  (It's like a sales tax.  You pay, based upon what you get.)  That sounds logical to me.

>
Actually, a flat tax income tax is still problematic as it penalizes investments and savings.


randy kerr

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 425

Report this Apr. 18 2012, 4:41 pm

we should be fair and help eachother.


i love all star trek shows and movies.

chr33355

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1551

Report this Apr. 18 2012, 5:37 pm

Quote: lostshaker @ Apr. 18 2012, 1:24 pm

>

>The only fair tax is 0 for everyone.

>>

>No.  I'm willing to pay for the services government SHOULD provide.

>Oh, yes. The government can get money the old way, indirectly through tariffs. It doesn't have to levy direct taxes, which are a form of involuntary servitude... that which is outlawed by the 13th Amendment. Granted, the 16th Amendment effectively repeals the 13th Amendment. But tariffs would have the advantage of lowering government income and thus minimizing government. The only reason the government taxes so much is to support unconstitutional government with its internal improvement programs, subsidies, and foreign wars.

>Individuals can always donate to government for such services.

>
 We don't have the exports to support a tariff anymore.  I personnally like the Fair Tax http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer


lostshaker

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2293

Report this Apr. 18 2012, 6:43 pm

We don't have the exports to support a tariff anymore.



And that should shrink government immediately! Also, if tariffs were the government's only source of income, it might encourage the government to stop its intervention in the market so that producers could produce and expand economic wealth.

lostshaker

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2293

Report this Apr. 18 2012, 6:46 pm

Then why are so many people in they USA homeless, and having to resort to dumpster diving and begging , and without access to good medicine ?


Shows how charitable americans are (as in NOT charitable at all , unless there is a tax advantage in giving).


Americans aren't being charitable, because they're being taxed to death... federal taxes, state taxes, inflation taxes, etc... Americans are too busy trying to survive and take care of their immediate needs. End the government's redistribution of wealth and individuals will have the money to be charitable.

lostshaker

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2293

Report this Apr. 18 2012, 7:59 pm

That's is a load of crap and just an excuse for being self centred, selfish and mean spirited and uncharitable.


Other countries have much higher personal income tax and indirect taxes than the USA and their people are much more charitable than americans are despite a higher tax burden. Explain that - => socialists are nicer people and countries with tax funded social and medical safety nets are nicer places to live perhaps.



Those countries are also being directly and indirectly bailed out by the U.S., specifically by the Federal Reserve inflating the money supply and devaluing the U.S. dollar. Inflation is the manner by which we experience this and it has the effect of shifting purchasing power away from Americans and to these socialist countries. The socialist countries are mooching off the U.S. like a parasite... oh, yeah, that's nice.

chr33355

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1551

Report this Apr. 18 2012, 8:09 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>

>Then why are so many people in they USA homeless, and having to resort to dumpster diving and begging , and without access to good medicine ?

>Shows how charitable americans are (as in NOT charitable at all , unless there is a tax advantage in giving).

>Americans aren't being charitable, because they're being taxed to death... federal taxes, state taxes, inflation taxes, etc... Americans are too busy trying to survive and take care of their immediate needs. End the government's redistribution of wealth and individuals will have the money to be charitable.

>

That's is a load of crap and just an excuse for being self centred, selfish and mean spirited and uncharitable.

Other countries have much higher personal income tax and indirect taxes than the USA and their people are much more charitable than americans are despite a higher tax burden. Explain that - => socialists are nicer people and countries with tax funded social and medical safety nets are nicer places to live perhaps.

you are an idiot America is one of the most generous countries in the world if the the most.


http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/15/opinion/bennett-generosity/index.html


 


lostshaker

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2293

Report this Apr. 18 2012, 8:23 pm

Let's not forget the foreign aid America hands out to everbody, allies and enemies alike. We don't stop giving, not even when those enemies turn around and attack us.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46342

Report this Apr. 18 2012, 9:35 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>

>And what govemment spending reductions do you think are fair , and who is going to help those who need help when government programs are killed or curtailed.
Family..... Communities.... Churches....

It's called CHARITY and it does a much better job than government ever can do.  Plus, check out the US Constitution.... it's not the government's job to "help those who need help."

Then why are so many people in they USA homeless, and having to resort to dumpster diving and begging , and without access to good medicine ?

Shows how charitable americans are (as in NOT charitable at all , unless there is a tax advantage in giving).

A wealthy civilised society helps it's needy, underprivilaged, poor and ill and the best way of ensuring there is money there to do this through taxing those who can afford the tax.

For the dense I''ll repeat this. A flat rate of taxation is far from fair. The Flat tax is going to be a much more onerous impost and have a much larger effect on the after tax disposable earns of someone who is on a very low way and who is struggling to survive and provide themselves than on someone who is the top percentile of earners and will have essentially not notice the loss of the same flat rate - it'll have no impact on their lifestyle or ability to enjoy their huge excess in earnings after tax. Therefore it is socially benefitial for the wealthy to pay a higher tax rate than the working poor.

Actually, it's a very, very small number that are homeless.  And there are many private organizations that help those in need.  Americans are the most generous people in the world - which is why we donate billions each year.... and that's not just inside the USA.  Why do other countries constantly ask us for money?  It's because they know we're generous.  (Although as taxation rises, people have less money for charity.... this is by government design.)


Regardless, it is still NOT the federal government's responsibility to house/feed/etc the people of this country.


What is it with you and your hate of people that earn more and have more income to spend?  Why do you feel like you have the right to steal it under the guise of "socially beneficial".... aka socialism?  Sounds like you're way too jealous.


Why do you feal that taxation should have an impact on someone's lifestyle?  You appear to have forgotten that the only reason that taxation should exist is to pay for minimal government.  Anything else is theft.  But then again, you keep telling everyone that the tax system should be used to punish the productive so that they don't want to produce any more...


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46342

Report this Apr. 18 2012, 10:01 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>Other countries have much higher personal income tax and indirect taxes than the USA and their people are much more charitable than americans are despite a higher tax burden. Explain that - => socialists are nicer people and countries with tax funded social and medical safety nets are nicer places to live perhaps.
Throwing the BS flag there....


1) America is still the most generous nation in the world.


2) Socialists are theives - that doesn't make them nice.  Just because they joyfully give someone else's money away doesn't make them "nicer people."  If you want to fund someone's "safety nets", that's your choice, but STOP stealing my money!


DS9TREK

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 14335

Report this Apr. 19 2012, 6:39 am

If I was running Britain I'd have a flat tax of around 25% with a tax free allowance of £18,000.


The reason people oppose a flat tax is "morals". In Britain the Chancellor recently cut the top rate of tax from 50% to 45% proving the rich would pay MORE at the lower rate. And the left condemned it. The LibDems in particular decried the cut saying it isn't about collecting more money but being "moral" and "sending a message to the rich".

lostshaker

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2293

Report this Apr. 19 2012, 8:06 am

I'd like to further rebuke this notion of the necessity for direct taxation and Americans being uncharitable. With the economic downturn, a minority of restaurants have been hit severely and are trying to find ways to survive. Chief among these are the strategies of "paying what you can" or "pay what you think this is worth." The first strategy works thus: people come in get their meal... sometimes they work off their meal by doing dishes or other tasks for the restaurant... or paying dimes to dollars - anything they can afford. If a person can't immediately afford it, then the meal is free with the restaurant having faith in the customer that they will return and pay at a later date. Some people come into the restaurants and drop a $20 or a $50 to pay for an entire week. Some people pay for others, but it's all voluntary.


The second strategy typically ends with the customer voluntarily paying more for the meal than what the restaurant itself would've priced the meal as worth. Also, the fact that the customer could underprice the meal encourages the restaurant to be on their best behavior and focus on quality - since their jobs depend directly on the customers' satisfaction and charity.


These stratgies have proved so effective that not only are these small businesses surviving, but show an increase in over all profits. Some companies like Panera Bread want to expand the practice to additional stores, because it works so well.


And consider this when you're dining out in a restaurant: how many of us are more generous when restaurants leave the tipping up to us, the customer, as opposed to when the restaurant hits us with an automatic gratuity fee?


So the question becomes, why can't government operate the same way? Why can't government funding be a voluntary action by the people? Consider how much more efficient and frugal the government might be if it didn't know where the next dollar was coming from? Charity is a liberty. If the government imposes a direct tax then individuals lose that same degree of a charitableness or liberty, as it was taken from them.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46342

Report this Apr. 19 2012, 8:40 am

Quote: DS9TREK @ Apr. 19 2012, 6:39 am

>

>If I was running Britain I'd have a flat tax of around 25% with a tax free allowance of £18,000.

>The reason people oppose a flat tax is "morals". In Britain the Chancellor recently cut the top rate of tax from 50% to 45% proving the rich would pay MORE at the lower rate. And the left condemned it. The LibDems in particular decried the cut saying it isn't about collecting more money but being "moral" and "sending a message to the rich".

>
Yep - lowering tax rates almost always increase tax revenue... but that's not why the ProRegressives really tax - their tax policies are about controlling people, not funding the government.


Anyone ever wonder why one of the planks in the Communist Manifesto is a "Progressive Income Tax"??  (Oh, and the Communists also want to abolish all inheritance...)


Corwin8

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 8468

Report this Apr. 19 2012, 9:41 am

If you are not hatin on the rich you are not a libtard douchbag Democrat asshat. 


Class warfare. Plain and simple. Envy and covet what you don't have and won't work to get. Then elect leaders who will march in with a gun and force it from them.


All to keep the poor fat, dumb, and happy. As long as those on the dole keep voting in the guys handing out the cookies form the store. No matter who paid for them.


Parasites really. No real benifit while they bleed the host dry. Forgetting the fact that at some point the host will die. 


Let the bridges I burn light the way. You are special, just like everybody else. Calling an illegal alien an ‘undocumented immigrant’ is like calling a drug dealer an ‘unlicensed pharmacist’

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46342

Report this Apr. 19 2012, 11:15 am

^^ That's why we've been warned many times about a country only being able to exist until the people figure out that they can vote themselves money from other taxpayers...


Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum