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The Borg Collective (Star Trek) Vs The Galactic Empire (Star Wars)

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Created by: GeekstarBlack

GeekstarBlack

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Report this Apr. 11 2012, 10:55 am

Putting all personal preferences and biases aside... Based on information available about both factions, If "The Borg" Led by [The Borg Queen], were to meet "The Empire" Led by [Darth Vader], in an all out war based on the following: Technological Prowess, Manpower, Mentality, Leadership, Weaponry, Tactics, and ability who would Stand Victorious? 


Clones Vs Drones


Blasters Vs Phasers


Armor Vs Implants


Repair Vs Regeneration


Evasion Vs Adaptation


For the sake of arguement both sides will have one particular special ability. The Borg have [Assimilation], and The Empire has [The Force]. Keep in mind that the force does in fact have physical limitations, so no using it as an irreversable trump card.

Chidori

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Report this Apr. 12 2012, 10:50 am

  I'll try to cover everything based on the info I know.


The Borg are a bit more advanced in technology given assimilation, the collective mind, and personal shields, but both are fairly even as far as ship shields and lasers/phasers go, and I'd say both are even as far as manpower goes. Both have a similar 'take over the universe' mentality, with strong and organized leadership. As far as weaponry goes, they're pretty similar there too. The Emperor has displayed good tactics, namely in luring the Rebel fleet to their doom (second Death Star), but there's also a huge amout of arrogance from himself and officers which leads to mistakes being made (first Death Star). The Borg tactic is generally the same - adapt to render further attacks inneffective, and overwhelm with superior numbers or force.


I'd give the edge to Drones. Drones would adapt to clone blasters and assimilate the clones, giving you more drones to replace those that died.


Blasters and phasers seem about the same, but it doesn't really matter as Borg don't use phasers. If you're meaning ship to ship, Empire's Death Star has larger fire power and could annihilate a Borg ship, but needs to warm up and has little to no speed. It's likely the Borg would adapt their shields, rendering it useless, or evade the beam while it's still getting ready to fire.


Slight edge to implants. Armor doesn't do jack according to every movie I've seen. It only protects against glancing blows or shrapnel. Direct hit and you're down. Implants allow the Borg to assimilate and have a personal shield.


Regeneration has an edge. The Borg can regenerate faster than ships can be repaired. They've done so in almost every instance except with Species 8472.


Adaptation is better than evasion. Eventually you'll wear out and be unable to avoid damage. Adaptation allows you to learn from every situation - the same trick won't work twice. As Q said, "you can't outrun them. You can't destroy them. If you damage them, the essence of what they are remains...they regenerate and keep coming. Eventually, you'll weaken. Your reserves will be gone. They are relentless."


As to the Force vs Assimilation, the Force is stronger BUT only Vader and the Emperor (at the time of the Empire) have been shown to use it. Vader could wipe out drone after drone, but would eventually tire or take too much damage to be effective (or the personal shield would adapt to his lightsaber like they do to phaser fire), and the Emperor (according to the movies) usually has others fight his battles, only engaging someone when he's directly threatened. EVERY Borg can assimilate, which means there's a larger chance of your clones becoming drones. The knowledge a person has becomes part of the Borg mind, and can then be used against you. (Picard's knowledge rendering the Enterprise's attack useless and leading to victory in Wolf 359 is the best example.)


The Borg attack like ants do by overwhelming their opponents with superior numbers, and also adapting to any attack using technology. You have to keep changing your attack in order to be effective. It's all a question of numbers: can you wipe out enough of them before they adapt and assimilate or kill you.


"They like you very much, but they are not the hell your whales."

chr33355

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Report this Apr. 14 2012, 4:12 pm

Quote: Chidori @ Apr. 12 2012, 10:50 am

>

>  I'll try to cover everything based on the info I know.

>The Borg are a bit more advanced in technology given assimilation, the collective mind, and personal shields, but both are fairly even as far as ship shields and lasers/phasers go, and I'd say both are even as far as manpower goes. Both have a similar 'take over the universe' mentality, with strong and organized leadership. As far as weaponry goes, they're pretty similar there too. The Emperor has displayed good tactics, namely in luring the Rebel fleet to their doom (second Death Star), but there's also a huge amout of arrogance from himself and officers which leads to mistakes being made (first Death Star). The Borg tactic is generally the same - adapt to render further attacks inneffective, and overwhelm with superior numbers or force.  The Emprie is far more advanced given the speed, fire power and numerical advantages.  Hyperspace travels the galaxy in a matter of hours days at most.  Fire power medium turbolasers have 200 gigatons per shot.  The Empire has 1 million systems and controls a majority of a galaxy where as the Borg control part of one quadrent.  

>I'd give the edge to Drones. Drones would adapt to clone blasters and assimilate the clones, giving you more drones to replace those that died.

>Blasters and phasers seem about the same, but it doesn't really matter as Borg don't use phasers. If you're meaning ship to ship, Empire's Death Star has larger fire power and could annihilate a Borg ship, but needs to warm up and has little to no speed. It's likely the Borg would adapt their shields, rendering it useless, or evade the beam while it's still getting ready to fire.  Phasers are useless against armor where as blasters are designed for armor.

>Slight edge to implants. Armor doesn't do jack according to every movie I've seen. It only protects against glancing blows or shrapnel. Direct hit and you're down. Implants allow the Borg to assimilate and have a personal shield.  The clone armor actually does well against direct hits where as the stromtrooper armor is less effective.

>Regeneration has an edge. The Borg can regenerate faster than ships can be repaired. They've done so in almost every instance except with Species 8472.  Doesn't matter the Imperials have such a massive fire power advantage they can kill cubes in one shot with standard anti capital ship weapons.

>Adaptation is better than evasion. Eventually you'll wear out and be unable to avoid damage. Adaptation allows you to learn from every situation - the same trick won't work twice. As Q said, "you can't outrun them. You can't destroy them. If you damage them, the essence of what they are remains...they regenerate and keep coming. Eventually, you'll weaken. Your reserves will be gone. They are relentless."  The problem is that one the borg encounter a problem they can't adapt to they can't physically change with out outside help.

>As to the Force vs Assimilation, the Force is stronger BUT only Vader and the Emperor (at the time of the Empire) have been shown to use it. Vader could wipe out drone after drone, but would eventually tire or take too much damage to be effective (or the personal shield would adapt to his lightsaber like they do to phaser fire), and the Emperor (according to the movies) usually has others fight his battles, only engaging someone when he's directly threatened. EVERY Borg can assimilate, which means there's a larger chance of your clones becoming drones. The knowledge a person has becomes part of the Borg mind, and can then be used against you. (Picard's knowledge rendering the Enterprise's attack useless and leading to victory in Wolf 359 is the best example.)  You do realize there are several force using assains like Mara Jade

>The Borg attack like ants do by overwhelming their opponents with superior numbers, and also adapting to any attack using technology. You have to keep changing your attack in order to be effective. It's all a question of numbers: can you wipe out enough of them before they adapt and assimilate or kill you.   Luckily all you have to do is get a weapon they can't adapt to and walk slowly backwards.

>


chr33355

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Report this Apr. 14 2012, 4:16 pm

This is such a one sided curb stomp in the favor of the empire it isn't even funny.  The Borg have no chance significantly slower FTL, limited tactial abilities, several orders of magnitude smaller firepower, far fewer numbers, and comparitivly minor industrial capabilites.

Camorite

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Report this Apr. 14 2012, 4:43 pm

Quote: chr33355 @ Apr. 14 2012, 4:16 pm

This is such a one sided curb stomp in the favor of the empire it isn't even funny.  The Borg have no chance significantly slower FTL, limited tactial abilities, several orders of magnitude smaller firepower, far fewer numbers, and comparitivly minor industrial capabilites.



Wow what surprise that you would say that (not really). So now that we have heard from the king of warsies anyone else want to pitch in.

"What i Hate more then anything else is someone that thinks that they know everything. That must mean that I really hate myself", "Freedom is the right of all setient beings!" (Optimus Prime: Transformers), "That's on small step for man, one giant leap for mankind!" Neil Armstrong 8-5-30 to 8-25-12

Kate McCoy

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Report this Apr. 14 2012, 6:17 pm

If i remember The Borg don't Use Traditional FTL Drives they either use transwarp Drives or Have TransWarp Tunnels.... I'm pretty sure both of them are wayyyyyy faster than Hyperlight ever thought of bieng.... As For Phasers I'd say they can do more damage than blasters ever thought of doing...... I doubt the Empire keeps anything on thire ships that would be primitive enough to where it could kill multiple borg....

ohio31392

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Report this Apr. 14 2012, 7:54 pm

I definitely think that it would be a lopsided win on the part of the Borg. They specialize in ripping through shields which all Empire ships heavily rely on. On top of that if phasers couldn't efficiently cut through the Borg's ship and personal shields than no blaster would be able to. While I think that lightsabers would be effective, the Empire did not have enough lightsaber-trained fighters to effectively fight a war with just them.

Chidori

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Report this Apr. 14 2012, 11:46 pm

Oh yeah, I forgot. Transporters. That would be another tech I'd say is in favor of the Borg as I believe the Empire is still using shuttles. And yeah, the Borg use transwarp (think interconnecting wormholes), which covers the length of the universe in minutes.


In a brief skirmish, the Empire would likely do better due to the Force and tactics, however a long drawn out war would favor the Borg as the Empire's resources would likely become too depleted and exhausted to continue while the Borg are constantly regenerating and adapting, not to mention assimilating.


The only Empire tech I've seen that might do any real damage despite shields and regeneration would be a Death Star, simply because the firepower on that would be so massive. The problem is, it has to warm up it's main weapon which is only useful on stationary and slow-moving targets, as well as the fact that it is also slow moving. With the Borg having warp speed, it's likely they'd evade the attack or keep their forces behind the weapon. It's simply too unwieldly to use in a fight with fast-moving ships. The only reason it did such massive damage to the Rebel fleet was because they'd committed the fleet to an all out attack in order to destroy it.

tige995

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Report this Apr. 15 2012, 12:41 am

Allow me to throw in my 2 strips of latnum 


 


-The borg can manuver at warp in combat  empire can only use FTL for travel


-Stormtrooper armor didn't save then from the Ewock's bows or slings


-We saw fully trained jedi gunned down by regular clone troopers and lightsabers can't cut threw force feilds (when obiwan got separated from qui gon during the darth maul fight) And watch out if they  assimulate a jedi!


-blasters are a joke. A phaser can "knock out the side of a building" and a blaster cant even open a magneticly sealed garbage dump door


-You only saw a glimse of the other types of ships the borg have on Voyager. (using only canon films/tv shows for both sides)


 


-Can imperial scientisits come up with somthing? maybe. They did make the death star and they do have a massive fleet. but if they dont come up with a "magic bullet" its just a matter of time.


 

chr33355

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Report this Apr. 15 2012, 5:47 am

Transwarp tunnels are useless as they are physical structures that can easily be destoryed.  Based on the fact that we have seen ships in wars cross the galaxy in a matter of hours where as transwarp takes months I say will still has the advantage in strategic speed.


 


As for warp mauvering why do they never use this tactic aginst speices 8472? Why do after losing over a dozen engagements against 8472 did the borg just fly up and say their catch phrase one time only to be killed mid sentance.


 


Given that we have seen in first contact and the enterpise borg episode (regeneration i think) that the borg adaptation has limits if you throw enough fire power at it so the smaller weapons will be effective after prolonged bombardment.  Since most wars captial ship weapons can kill a borg cube in one shot we go with the battle against 8472 where they couldn't adapt at all.


 


What I find hilarious is you guys are ignoring the massive numbers, fire power and industral capabilities advatages that the Empire has over just about everything in trek.

Lt. Nkrumah

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Report this Apr. 15 2012, 6:41 am

This is Lt. Nkrumah, Communications Officer for Federation vessel Gideon....


 


As much as I hate the Borg, i have to say that in a knock down, drag out missle-blastin' battle, the Borg would DESTROY "the Empire"!


The Borg assimilate advanced technology in mere minutes, they don't always kill combatants, the assimilate them as well!


The Empire is an oppressive regime that uses an Earth-based political system, they do not have a biological imperative.


The Borg, on the other hand, have a bio-technological imperative HARDWIRED INTO THEIR PSYCHE (if you want to call it that). That type of "agenda", along with their technology and advanced interstellar abilities makes them a vicious opponent.


However, I will say that the Empire makes use of the dark side, i.e. they have a spiritual component and the use of mysticism and prophecy that has its place in war - some would argue ...


Even still, one battle between a Death-Star and a Borg Cube would be won by the Borg! 


"Gideon Crew: Battle-ready ALWAYS AND IN ALL WAYS!"

chr33355

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Report this Apr. 15 2012, 7:36 am

Quote: Lt. Nkrumah @ Apr. 15 2012, 6:41 am

>

>This is Lt. Nkrumah, Communications Officer for Federation vessel Gideon....

>As much as I hate the Borg, i have to say that in a knock down, drag out missle-blastin' battle, the Borg would DESTROY "the Empire"!

>The Borg assimilate advanced technology in mere minutes, they don't always kill combatants, the assimilate them as well!  Except 8472 and if they don't assimilate they can't learn anything about the new speicies

>The Empire is an oppressive regime that uses an Earth-based political system, they do not have a biological imperative.  Um what does a biological imperative have to do with anything?

>The Borg, on the other hand, have a bio-technological imperative HARDWIRED INTO THEIR PSYCHE (if you want to call it that). That type of "agenda", along with their technology and advanced interstellar abilities makes them a vicious opponent.  Too bad the Empire is more advanved techonologically.

>However, I will say that the Empire makes use of the dark side, i.e. they have a spiritual component and the use of mysticism and prophecy that has its place in war - some would argue ...

>Even still, one battle between a Death-Star and a Borg Cube would be won by the Borg! Yes if you ignore the fact the entire station is covered in weapons that can one shot kill a cube.

>


Camorite

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Report this Apr. 15 2012, 9:24 am

Here are some points I need to comment on.

First, from what I have seen the basics of trek an wars tech is relatively the same, they only took different directions with it. Wars went with grandiose overpowered monster ships, counting on smaller ships for defence in battles. while trek goes with a more conservative praticle design that is much more maneuverable.

Second, in the end there is no difference between blasters an phasers. They are both energy based weapons and therefore WILL BE ADAPTED TOO. I do be live that light sabers, though still energy based weapons, would be effective due to there design and the people that would be using it. Btw, for the person that mentioned obi won not being able to cut through a shield, that is because it was a blast shield which is many many times more powerful then a borg personal shield.

Third, force users could tip the scales in the empires favor, if not for the fact that the Jedi were all but whipped outand there were only two fully trained sith in the entire galaxy. Granted palpatine did have his Hands and a few sith in his personal guard, but it was nowhere near enough to battle thousands apon thousands of drones.

Lastly, assimilation tubules are able to perpetrate just about any defence conceivable. Stormtrooper/clone armor would have no chance of stopping this once the drones adapted to their weapons.

"What i Hate more then anything else is someone that thinks that they know everything. That must mean that I really hate myself", "Freedom is the right of all setient beings!" (Optimus Prime: Transformers), "That's on small step for man, one giant leap for mankind!" Neil Armstrong 8-5-30 to 8-25-12

randy kerr

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Report this Apr. 15 2012, 11:01 am

the borg are tough they will medevil all over them in one quick sweep.

randy kerr

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Report this Apr. 15 2012, 11:01 am

the borg are tough they will medevil all over them in one quick sweep.

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