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Augments had fire a successful fire boilgical weapon on that Klingon colony on Star Terk The Augments triger full scale war between the human and Klingon Empire would human turn Xindi for help

Jason222

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Report this Apr. 06 2012, 2:55 pm

My option yes since Earth fleet not stand a chance againist Klingon Empire at the time. Vuclan fleet might somewhat more match but no way tell been enough and Andrions the same thing. Earth well turn any race be well aid them. I think made Earth look Xindi for help.

Broadstorm

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Report this Apr. 06 2012, 3:44 pm

This is an interesting question.  The Xindi were far away, but could jump great distances in a short period of time, and the Klingons probably would not recognize them.  The Xindi probably felt a debt over the whole almost making Humans extinct thing.  I think the Primates & Arboreals would want to help, but they have the weakest ships.  The Aquatics would probably also agree to help given that Enterprise restored the area to normal space by destroying the spheres & they have the heavy hitters.  The Insectoids & Reptilians would be harder to predict.  Near the end, the Insectoids realized that the Guardians & Sphere Builders probably were the same as Archer claimed given how the anomoly field protected the weapon somewhat too conveniently.  The new Reptilian leadership might agree to it as a political decision.

Mitchz95

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Report this Apr. 06 2012, 8:47 pm

I think the Xindi would be occupied with trying to reunify. After all, they were recovering from a civil war at the time (and still fighting with the Reptilians). Since most of their ships were probably lost during the "Countdown" battle, they'd be in no shape to help Earth against the Klingons.


Since the war would have happened before the Vulcan Reformation, I doubt the V'Las government would have been interested in helping either. At best, they might try to mediate peace talks.


I'm not sure what the Andorians would do. Shran would no doubt try to get them to join the fight, but not sure whether Imperial Command would go for it. Especially since they weren't allies at the time.


I agree that Earth would be basically screwed without help.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

Broadstorm

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Report this Apr. 08 2012, 4:12 am

Quote: Mitchz95 @ Apr. 06 2012, 8:47 pm

>

>I think the Xindi would be occupied with trying to reunify. After all, they were recovering from a civil war at the time (and still fighting with the Reptilians). Since most of their ships were probably lost during the "Countdown" battle, they'd be in no shape to help Earth against the Klingons.

>


They did have their own problems, but I doubt that the small number of ships they lost in that conflict is anywehere near a majority of their ships.

Mitchz95

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Report this Apr. 08 2012, 6:51 am

Quote: Broadstorm @ Apr. 08 2012, 4:12 am

>

>They did have their own problems, but I doubt that the small number of ships they lost in that conflict is anywehere near a majority of their ships.

>


In "Countdown", when Archer's trying to rally the Primates and Arboreals, he says, "You've got almost as many ships!" which I took to mean that the Reptilians and Insectoids had deployed most of their forces to defend the weapon. And the Primates/Arboreals/Aquatics sent most of their to attack. After all, the fate of all Xindi races was at stake.


Both factions lost a lot of ships in that battle - at least eight Reptilian/Insectoid ships, and numerous ships belonging to the others (at least four Aquatic ships, numerous Arboreal ships, and a couple Primate ships). When Dolim and the Weapon made their escape, there only appeared to be a few ships left on either side.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

Camorite

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Report this Apr. 08 2012, 8:25 am

I think that it is more likely that they would turn to there closer friends, anorians, vulcans, an telerite, before turning to the xindi for help. But that does not rule out the possibility either as the xindi would be able to get to the battles much faster then anyone else.

Jason222

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Report this Apr. 08 2012, 8:04 pm

Quote: Mitchz95 @ Apr. 08 2012, 6:51 am

Quote: Broadstorm @ Apr. 08 2012, 4:12 am

>

>

>They did have their own problems, but I doubt that the small number of ships they lost in that conflict is anywehere near a majority of their ships.

>

In "Countdown", when Archer's trying to rally the Primates and Arboreals, he says, "You've got almost as many ships!" which I took to mean that the Reptilians and Insectoids had deployed most of their forces to defend the weapon. And the Primates/Arboreals/Aquatics sent most of their to attack. After all, the fate of all Xindi races was at stake.

Both factions lost a lot of ships in that battle - at least eight Reptilian/Insectoid ships, and numerous ships belonging to the others (at least four Aquatic ships, numerous Arboreal ships, and a couple Primate ships). When Dolim and the Weapon made their escape, there only appeared to be a few ships left on either side.


Aquatics had only send six vessil help intercept the Xindi super weapon out those starships only 3 were disable. It possible other 3 were destory.  While extreamly unlikely that Aquatic only have six starship availabe entire fleet. If you like see evidence watch Star Terk Ent countdown Star Terk.com CBS from 19 and 49 secounds till 19 munte and 55 secounds. Malcom cleary state Aquatic send in only 6 starships then go to 31 minute to about 32 minute and 55 secound. Repilians clearly stated only 3 Aquatic starship disable.  Fact Aquatic starship lot slower suggestion Aquatic seem unliekly Aquatic able send in entire fleet or even must it must likley small part. The Reptilians and Insectoids without question did not send entire fleet Reptilian commander want to now ask for reforcement meaning could send at least another 18 starships.

Mitchz95

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Report this Apr. 08 2012, 8:42 pm

Aquatics had only send six vessil help intercept the Xindi super weapon out those starships only 3 were disable. It possible other 3 were destory While extreamly unlikely that Aquatic only have six starship availabe entire fleet. If you like see evidence watch Star Terk Ent countdown Star Terk.com CBS from 19 and 49 secounds till 19 munte and 55 secounds. Malcom cleary state Aquatic send in only 6 starships then go to 31 minute to about 32 minute and 55 secound. Repilians clearly stated only 3 Aquatic starship disable. 


I forgot about those three he mentioned. That makes two Aquatic ships disabled during combat ("We've lost eight vessels; we've only disabled two of theirs"), one destroyed by Dolim's ship (clip after Archer says, "Send Major Hayes and his team"), and three lost to the anomalies ("They've disabled three of the Aquatic ships"). So it looks like all six Aquatic ships were defeated.


I didn't find that Malcolm quote, but one of Dolim's officers reported six Aquatic ships during the battle.


Fact Aquatic starship lot slower suggestion Aquatic seem unliekly Aquatic able send in entire fleet or even must it must likley small part.


Good point, but the ships that did participate didn't seem to have any trouble keeping up with the rest of the fleet. And the Xindi were still fractured at the time; I doubt they had more than 10-20 ships per species altogether.


The Reptilians and Insectoids without question did not send entire fleet Reptilian commander want to now ask for reforcement meaning could send at least another 18 starships.


Also true, but the Reptilian only said there were eighteen ships approaching after Dolim rejected his inquiry about reinforcements. So while they did have additional ships somewhere, we don't know that there were eighteen of them.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

Jason222

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Report this Apr. 10 2012, 8:42 pm

Quote: Mitchz95 @ Apr. 08 2012, 8:42 pm

>

>Aquatics had only send six vessil help intercept the Xindi super weapon out those starships only 3 were disable. It possible other 3 were destory While extreamly unlikely that Aquatic only have six starship availabe entire fleet. If you like see evidence watch Star Terk Ent countdown Star Terk.com CBS from 19 and 49 secounds till 19 munte and 55 secounds. Malcom cleary state Aquatic send in only 6 starships then go to 31 minute to about 32 minute and 55 secound. Repilians clearly stated only 3 Aquatic starship disable. 

>I forgot about those three he mentioned. That makes two Aquatic ships disabled during combat ("We've lost eight vessels; we've only disabled two of theirs"), one destroyed by Dolim's ship (clip after Archer says, "Send Major Hayes and his team"), and three lost to the anomalies ("They've disabled three of the Aquatic ships"). So it looks like all six Aquatic ships were defeated.

>I didn't find that Malcolm quote, but one of Dolim's officers reported six Aquatic ships during the battle.

>Fact Aquatic starship lot slower suggestion Aquatic seem unliekly Aquatic able send in entire fleet or even must it must likley small part.

>Good point, but the ships that did participate didn't seem to have any trouble keeping up with the rest of the fleet. And the Xindi were still fractured at the time; I doubt they had more than 10-20 ships per species altogether.

>The Reptilians and Insectoids without question did not send entire fleet Reptilian commander want to now ask for reforcement meaning could send at least another 18 starships.

>Also true, but the Reptilian only said there were eighteen ships approaching after Dolim rejected his inquiry about reinforcements. So while they did have additional ships somewhere, we don't know that there were eighteen of them.

>


Also Ent: twilight also another strong piece evidence Reptilians Xindi and Insectriod had much more something 20 starship piece. At least some outpost they that they destory had defenses require Xindi pay heavy loses. Then of course was Earth fleet.  Minimal 8 starship simple fact that surival during twilight seperation into at least 2 group possible more. Each group colony starships and at least one group 4 excort it possible another group had 4 escort.  Of course NX Enterpise surival and at least one other human starship surival hard believe just watch Xindi kill of human living Mars. My thoery human fleet force retreat likely heavy lose maybe something like half destory that fire fight alone. Other Earth starship try to defend Earth colony also get destory during Xindi attack.

Mitchz95

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Report this Apr. 10 2012, 8:55 pm

Quote: Jason222 @ Apr. 10 2012, 8:42 pm

>

>Also Ent: twilight also another strong piece evidence Earth Reptilians Xindi and Insectriod had much more something 20 starship piece.  After Earth destory attack Mars and every Earth outpost they could find. Earth fleet likley been minimal 8 starships a maxium of 20 starships. They at least seperation the human surivaler into two diffenrt groups. Each group had 4 human starship protect them had sevel colony starships. I think least some human starship also lost at Mars when human trying defend it.

>


Well, considering the pasting Enterprise got at Azati Prime, I don't think any of those pre-NX ships would have a chance of taking on a Reptilian warship...not one-on-one, anyway. So even with a small fleet of 20-30 ships (since the Reptilians and Insectoids combined forces), the Xindi would be more than capable of carrying out an extermination campaign like the one we saw in "Twilight". Plus, the other species seemed to be on board with the extermination in that timeline.


And I believe the Terran survivors did try a convoy system in "Twilight". It didn't work out too well.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

Jason222

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Report this Apr. 12 2012, 4:06 pm

Quote: Mitchz95 @ Apr. 10 2012, 8:55 pm

Quote: Jason222 @ Apr. 10 2012, 8:42 pm

>

>

>Also Ent: twilight also another strong piece evidence Earth Reptilians Xindi and Insectriod had much more something 20 starship piece.  After Earth destory attack Mars and every Earth outpost they could find. Earth fleet likley been minimal 8 starships a maxium of 20 starships. They at least seperation the human surivaler into two diffenrt groups. Each group had 4 human starship protect them had sevel colony starships. I think least some human starship also lost at Mars when human trying defend it.

>

Well, considering the pasting Enterprise got at Azati Prime, I don't think any of those pre-NX ships would have a chance of taking on a Reptilian warship...not one-on-one, anyway. So even with a small fleet of 20-30 ships (since the Reptilians and Insectoids combined forces), the Xindi would be more than capable of carrying out an extermination campaign like the one we saw in "Twilight". Plus, the other species seemed to be on board with the extermination in that timeline.

And I believe the Terran survivors did try a convoy system in "Twilight". It didn't work out too well.


Enterprise in battle Azati Prime destory Reptilian ship she under attack 4 Xindi warship on 2 Reptilians and 2 Insectoids. If you like see evidence watch Vidoe from Star Terk .com Ent Azati Prime from 40 minute and 24 secounds to about 40 minutes and 26 seconds.


So Xindi race real matter Aquatic starship since NX Class starship more powerful the Reptilian starships anyway or at least one on one. 


By way idea must xindi race 20 starship piece unlikley


The Insectiods  have three differnt class warships. scouts ,patorl and


You can look each one them up


http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Xindi-Insectoid_scout_ship


http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Xindi-Insectoid_patrol_ship


http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Xindi-Insectoid_starship



we seen scout Insectiod ship only once the patorl insectiod ship only saw twice none been destory we see 3 are real other two just made look real. Rest have all been Xindi Insectiod starships we seem something like 10 of them.


Now Aquatic have both scout and battleships so no reason beleive did not have portal ships as we guess Reptilian likley same.


of course only Aquatic warship be big help since they could fight klingon at least one on one perhaps even 2 to one odds. Other race pratice limit help because number because starship little match Klingon anyway. Aquatic able move quickly allow target Klingon shipyards and fleet poorly grounded. Also Xindi could aslo deploy think like Xindi probe at the major Klingon targets.

Broadstorm

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Report this Apr. 12 2012, 4:23 pm

Quote: Jason222 @ Apr. 12 2012, 4:06 pm

>

>Now Aquatic have both scout and battleships so no reason beleive did not have portal ships


It was an Aquatic vessel that returned Enterprise to the Sol System in less than a day.  It jumped in, opened up to release Enterprise from its hold, turned and went back home.

Mitchz95

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Report this Apr. 12 2012, 4:46 pm

Quote: Broadstorm @ Apr. 12 2012, 4:23 pm

Quote: Jason222 @ Apr. 12 2012, 4:06 pm

>

>

>Now Aquatic have both scout and battleships so no reason beleive did not have portal ships

It was an Aquatic vessel that returned Enterprise to the Sol System in less than a day.  It jumped in, opened up to release Enterprise from its hold, turned and went back home.


I think Jason meant "patrol ships" rather than "portal ships".


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

Mitchz95

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Report this Apr. 12 2012, 4:58 pm

Enterprise in battle Azati Prime destory Reptilian ship she under attack 4 Xindi warship on 2 Reptilians and 2 Insectoids. If you like see evidence watch Vidoe from Star Terk .com Ent Azati Prime from 40 minute and 24 secounds to about 40 minutes and 26 seconds.


I said pre-NX. In "Twilight", the Enterprise was in a similar situation to the Battle of Azati Prime (two Insectoid and two Reptilian ships) and couldn't win even with help from the Intrepid and that one Warp Delta.


So Xindi race real matter Aquatic starship since NX Class starship more powerful the Reptilian starships anyway or at least one on one. 


Yeah, I think an NX is roughly equal to a Reptilian warship. Of course, Starfleet only had one at the time of the Xindi arc (Columbia was probably destroyed in drydock when Earth was destroyed).


By way idea must xindi race 20 starship piece unlikley


The Insectiods  have three differnt class warships. scouts ,patorl and


You can look each one them up


http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Xindi-Insectoid_scout_ship


http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Xindi-Insectoid_patrol_ship


http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Xindi-Insectoid_starship



we seen scout Insectiod ship only once the patorl insectiod ship only saw twice none been destory we see 3 are real other two just made look real. Rest have all been Xindi Insectiod starships we seem something like 10 of them.


Now Aquatic have both scout and battleships so no reason beleive did not have portal ships as we guess Reptilian likley same.


Very good points. However, keep in mind that there were only a few systems in the Expanse controlled by the Xindi...most of which had one or two ships guarding it at most. The Azati system was an exception because the weapon was there. So they wouldn't have needed more than a couple patrol ships for each system.


of course only Aquatic warship be big help since they could fight klingon at least one on one perhaps even 2 to one odds. Other race pratice limit help because number because starship little match Klingon anyway. Aquatic able move quickly allow target Klingon shipyards and fleet poorly grounded. Also Xindi could aslo deploy think like Xindi probe at the major Klingon targets.


Agreed, the Aquatics would be valuable allies if they could be pursuaded to join the fight.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

Jason222

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Report this Apr. 14 2012, 8:04 pm


The Aquatic are normal slow to take sides in issues special foreign conflicts but in this case I think they be lot quicker.  First they have no insures that spear builders well not find other place to build their spears and colonies Star Trek universe.  UFP was olnly power could beat the spear builders in other timeline and it would be only real way to be the must sure Spear builders will not colony the universe that they live in. Other reason they feel indebt to the human for they had save race Xindi. Aquatic did have common sense part reason Archer offer destory spears return for Aquatic help destory super weapon made quick call. This likley another example of that. One Primates look forward from close relations human race it likley Aquatic thinking the samething.  


As for Twlight the two Starfleet ship disable Insection ship each fire only one phaser beam at that ship before engine knock out action. NX Enterprise by her self disable Repitlian warship if like see please watches Star Trek twilight 31 minute and 16 seconds to about. We also did not know how much Xindi upgrade starship and if used projectile weapon made starship much more powerful then they were in normal timeline. Just to much fighting going  and how may Xindi starship destory. Just to much fighting going on off screen.  I well agree to disagree you on the Repitlain ships.


Azati system was also major Aquatic colony. Planet xindi counci fleet worth starship to protect it.

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