Disparity in Income (and wealth) Distribution

padracin

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Report this Apr. 11 2012, 1:25 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Apr. 06 2012, 6:52 pm

Quote: padracin @ Apr. 06 2012, 11:47 am

>

>12.  Extraordinary compensation packages for executive in certain industries
How is "extraordinary" defined?  Why is it not okay for people to be paid well?  Why can't someone freely negotiate a contract with another party?


 


Extraordinary by the definition of orders of magnitude increase over the period  of four decades when compared to the increase in shop floor workers.  What part of that sentence said people can't freely negotiate a contract?

padracin

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Report this Apr. 11 2012, 1:27 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Apr. 06 2012, 7:39 pm

Quote: padracin @ Apr. 06 2012, 11:47 am

>

>13.  the tendency of highly educated people to marry or form joint households
Is that a complaint or an observation?

That's like talking about most (not all) have similar religious or political views.


 


It's an observation. 

padracin

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Report this Apr. 11 2012, 1:31 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Apr. 11 2012, 1:22 pm

Quote: padracin @ Apr. 11 2012, 12:48 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Apr. 07 2012, 8:34 pm

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>

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Have you ever researched where unions came from?  It's quite bad.

 

two words - Triangle Factory

 

if those girls could have worked somewhere else don't you think they would have?

 

Try again..... decades before that.


 


yes unionism began decades before the Triangle obscenity but that fire is widely considered to be the most important event in the movement's history..although Truman calling in the troops has got to be right up there

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Apr. 11 2012, 1:31 pm

Quote: padracin @ Apr. 11 2012, 1:04 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Apr. 06 2012, 4:39 pm

>

>

>6. massive losses in IRAs, retirement accounts since 2008

>       enormous scope of this loss due to the widespread deregulation/decrminalization of the banking industry in the prior decade allowing the institutions pushing junk mortgages to push their risk into derivatives that contaminated everyone's holdings
The market was way over valued and we needed a correction.  And with the massive printing of money and stuff the Federal Reserve did.... they purposefully inflated the market, creating a bubble.

 

The housing bubble was created by widespread overvaluation of the housing stock greatly worsened by unsupportable mortgages being pushed by unscrupulous lenders and gullible borrowers.

 

Markets do frequently need 'correction'. but the overinflation in the market in 2008 had a significant element of fraud involved through the pushing of junk derivatives.  Thank Congress for telling Wall St.  'do whatever you think best' for the prior decade.

 

Actually, it was just the opposite - the government was overregulating and hiding bad stuff.  They also forced businesses to do bad things that were very unsound.  And then pushing Freddie/Fannie to buy the vast majority of all those over-priced mortgages.....


If people want to buy junk, let them.  Just don't force the taxpayer to bail them out.


padracin

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Report this Apr. 11 2012, 1:33 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Apr. 11 2012, 1:24 pm

Quote: padracin @ Apr. 11 2012, 1:00 pm

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Because when people are unemployed, many get entitlements.  The working people are being penalized while the unemployed are being subsidized.  Entitlements are discriminatory.


 


unemployment compensation is an insurance payment funded by the premiums paid when you're working

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Apr. 11 2012, 1:34 pm

Quote: padracin @ Apr. 11 2012, 1:17 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Apr. 06 2012, 4:59 pm

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>And yes, I was affected by this - when I sold my house, I lost 60% from it's top value.  It's sad, but when I buy (very soon,) I'll be able to buy at a much lower price and get something much nicer.

>

 

It's true that loss in value in real estate can be offset those cases where the person is in the market at the same time.  but for everyone else the declining equity cannot be tapped for medical emergencies etc.  It is a loss of personal wealth.

Yep.  People profit from real estate values going up  (except when they get their property tax bill....)  Why shouldn't they be allowed to be affected when prices go down?


padracin

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Report this Apr. 11 2012, 1:36 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Apr. 11 2012, 1:31 pm

Quote: padracin @ Apr. 11 2012, 1:04 pm

>Markets do frequently need 'correction'. but the overinflation in the market in 2008 had a significant element of fraud involved through the pushing of junk derivatives.  Thank Congress for telling Wall St.  'do whatever you think best' for the prior decade.

>
Actually, it was just the opposite - the government was overregulating and hiding bad stuff.  They also forced businesses to do bad things that were very unsound.  And then pushing Freddie/Fannie to buy the vast majority of all those over-priced mortgages.....

If people want to buy junk, let them.  Just don't force the taxpayer to bail them out.


Bam, Bam


 


you can be truly amazing....what do you think the motivation of the tens of millions ob stock holders who had junk stuck into their IRAs?  Let me see..............could it have been they didn't KNOW if was junk?


 

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Apr. 11 2012, 2:42 pm

Quote: padracin @ Apr. 11 2012, 1:20 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Apr. 06 2012, 5:57 pm

Quote: padracin @ Apr. 06 2012, 11:47 am

>

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>9. rising costs of college education exceeding its return in value
And the vast majority of the colleges are government ran!  And then Obama attacks private and for-profit schools....

 

It doesn't matter who runs the colleges so long as the costs are rising......the basic point is the same

If the government runs all the colleges, there's no competition (plus, they get to continue indoctrinating kids - like the Marxist classes at Portland State University) - which means prices rise.  (And we all know how expensive government ran programs are....)  Why do you think some of the schools don't like the idea of distance education....?  And think about how college is actually paid for....  most people don't pay cash - they go into debt.  If people actually figured out if college is necessar for their career and went to a trade school or an apprenticeship, that may make better sense.  The vast majority of people I know don't use thier college degrees.  And for those that do go to college, is a loan always the best option (sometimes it is.)  Most people I know never even looked at the cost of the school - only where their friends go or where their favorite team is.


Just think if we bought our food or clothes like that...


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Apr. 11 2012, 3:08 pm

Quote: padracin @ Apr. 11 2012, 1:23 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Apr. 06 2012, 6:49 pm

Quote: padracin @ Apr. 06 2012, 11:47 am

>

>

>11. foreclosures
So you have a problem with people entering into contracts?  The lender makes an investment and takes a risk.  If the person who took out the loan doesn't pay the bank back, it's bank's duty to take the property.  Remember, most of the banks are responsible to their shareholders.

Let me see I said that foreclosures are an element of wealth inequality - they could very well be deserved.  How did that become I have a problem with people entering contracts?

When people complain about wealth inequality and blame foreclosures....


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Apr. 11 2012, 3:14 pm

Quote: padracin @ Apr. 11 2012, 1:25 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Apr. 06 2012, 6:52 pm

Quote: padracin @ Apr. 06 2012, 11:47 am

>

>

>12.  Extraordinary compensation packages for executive in certain industries
How is "extraordinary" defined?  Why is it not okay for people to be paid well?  Why can't someone freely negotiate a contract with another party?

 

Extraordinary by the definition of orders of magnitude increase over the period  of four decades when compared to the increase in shop floor workers.  What part of that sentence said people can't freely negotiate a contract?

When you try to use words that complain that someone gets too much compared to another.... you're complaining that they have the ability via a contract to do so...


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Apr. 11 2012, 3:24 pm

Quote: padracin @ Apr. 11 2012, 1:31 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Apr. 11 2012, 1:22 pm

Quote: padracin @ Apr. 11 2012, 12:48 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Apr. 07 2012, 8:34 pm

>

>

>

>
Have you ever researched where unions came from?  It's quite bad.

 

two words - Triangle Factory

 

if those girls could have worked somewhere else don't you think they would have?

 

Try again..... decades before that.

 

yes unionism began decades before the Triangle obscenity but that fire is widely considered to be the most important event in the movement's history..although Truman calling in the troops has got to be right up there

Unionism isn't about helping people - it's about power.  Have a few people been helped here and there?  Sure, but there have been a lot more harmed.


padracin

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Report this Apr. 11 2012, 4:50 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Apr. 11 2012, 3:24 pm

Quote: padracin @ Apr. 11 2012, 1:31 pm

>yes unionism began decades before the Triangle obscenity but that fire is widely considered to be the most important event in the movement's history..although Truman calling in the troops has got to be right up there

>
Unionism isn't about helping people - it's about power.  Have a few people been helped here and there?  Sure, but there have been a lot more harmed.


 


It helped a few people?  Gee whiz...those stupid coal miners who thought they earned they pay!!  And what exactly is wrong with power?  And who may possess it in your philosophy?

padracin

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Report this Apr. 11 2012, 4:53 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Apr. 11 2012, 3:14 pm

Quote: padracin @ Apr. 11 2012, 1:25 pm

>Extraordinary by the definition of orders of magnitude increase over the period  of four decades when compared to the increase in shop floor workers.  What part of that sentence said people can't freely negotiate a contract?

>
When you try to use words that complain that someone gets too much compared to another.... you're complaining that they have the ability via a contract to do so...


 


Try to use words that complain?  what does that mean exactly. Also to explain my post to you...........my point is their compensation is disproportionate to value provided.  If you're a shareholder of the corporation you've got a lot to 'complain' about although you may have very limited ability to do anything.

lostshaker

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Report this Apr. 11 2012, 6:25 pm

To address the topic at hand it is first necessary to distinguish income from wealth, as the two are so often wrongly used as interchangeable terms. Income refers to commodity earnings, generally expressed in monetary terms, over a particular time for purposes of savings or trade for other commodities. Wealth is the total supply of all commodities (goods and services) in an economy.


Production directly impacts wealth and income. Production expands the supply of commodities and thereby expands the wealth of the economy. However, income is not directly tied to economic wealth, but is a reflection of individual productivity. An indivdual may work hard at digging a ditch, but that same worker will not achieve a high income for a ditch that is being dug only to fill up again... that is the task lacks productive ends - the positive expansion of goods and services within an economy.


The disparity in both income and wealth can thus be traced to a lack of production and more notably the barriers to production. The United States has metamorphosed from a manufacturing economy to a service economy. A service economy is an outgrowth of manufacturing, but it is not a suitable replacement for a manufacturing economy for even a service economy relies on manufactured goods. Additionally, the service sector tends to be hallmarked by low income jobs, a reflection of the service sectors contribution to economic productivity, whereas the manufacturing sector requires more specialized skills that demand higher income compensation, again a reflection of the productivity contribution. Indeed, a manufacturing employee may recieve an equal or higher annual income than a small time business owner due to their relative productivity within the market. Given the above, an inherent disparity exists between a manufacturing economy and a service economy.


Secondly, many individuals are unwilling to take low income jobs. Individuals have the right to be unproductive, but to suffer the consequences associated with that action. Furthermore, many individuals are unwilling to take the low income jobs, because of inflation and a lack of purchasing power. If purchasing power was constant or increased in the consumers' favor due to deflation - the result of a strong currency and an expanding economy - than more people would be willing to occupy low income jobs because their purchasing power would increase over time. But right now our savings and purchasing power are being eroded away through inflation, which can be traced back to governmental polices and its central bank - the Federal Reserve. The government doesn't like deflation and treats it as an evil... if prices go down, so will taxes and governmental income - good for the consumer, bad for government. Therefore, the government favors policies that forward the hidden tax of inflation. In such an environment, individuals lose motivation to be productive, because the government confiscates income through taxes and gradually erodes the economy's wealth.


 

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Apr. 11 2012, 6:54 pm

Quote: padracin @ Apr. 11 2012, 1:36 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Apr. 11 2012, 1:31 pm

Quote: padracin @ Apr. 11 2012, 1:04 pm

>

>Markets do frequently need 'correction'. but the overinflation in the market in 2008 had a significant element of fraud involved through the pushing of junk derivatives.  Thank Congress for telling Wall St.  'do whatever you think best' for the prior decade.

>
Actually, it was just the opposite - the government was overregulating and hiding bad stuff.  They also forced businesses to do bad things that were very unsound.  And then pushing Freddie/Fannie to buy the vast majority of all those over-priced mortgages.....

If people want to buy junk, let them.  Just don't force the taxpayer to bail them out.

Bam, Bam

 

you can be truly amazing....what do you think the motivation of the tens of millions ob stock holders who had junk stuck into their IRAs?  Let me see..............could it have been they didn't KNOW if was junk?

 

And how many other investments have people lost money in?  Would those be considered "junk" too???


There are thousands and thousands of regulations that cover this. If people mischaracterize an investment, then they're breaking the law...


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