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Regeneration

Camorite

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POSTS: 5510

Report this Apr. 11 2012, 3:08 pm

Well broastorm, from your description it does sound like S31 and the syndicate were similare, but only to a point. As you stated they were more concerned for themselves the for the greater good of the human race, where S31 was supposed to be about the federation and its safety.

As for your second comment, continuity errors are common place in any major TV series. I happen to be of the opinion that most of these errors can be explained by a combination of common sense an logic. But as you keep on avoiding talking about the topic that started this debate, I will have to assume that you have no choice but to agree with me.

Camorite

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 5510

Report this Apr. 11 2012, 3:17 pm

Quote: Mitchz95 @ Apr. 11 2012, 8:47 am

First, the Borg forced genetic and mechanical alterations to a research team and an alien crew, not to mention that they nearly did the same to Enterprise. They are also responsible for the destruction of the el-aurian home world. If that does not, at the very least, constitute at least a stick-it note by S31, then what is the point for them to be around at all.

I believe many races are responsible for the destruction of other people's planets. I'd be surprised if the Klingons hadn't done that at least once prior to the 2200s.

As for the genetic/mechanical alternations...unusual, but I don't S31 would do much more than keep an eye out for related incidents that could directly affect Starfleet and UE. All the destruction of El-Auria would do is tell them that the aliens are still active somewhere.

Lastly, you may want to look up commander Collins before you make another comment about HIM, just so that you don't embarrass yourself anymore.

You mean this Collins from ENT? http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Collins_%28Commander%29

The only male "Collins" in ST is an Ensign on the Enterprise-D.

And there's no need to be insulting.



First you are missing the point in that the combination of archers report and whatever information that they got from the el-aurrians, would have classified the Borg as a threat. Why else send an expedition to learn more about them?

Second, yes I was referring tyo the Collins from enterprise. Why would I be talking about an ensign that has nothing to do with S31.

Finally, no insult intended, just making a general comment on something that is pretty obvious.

"What i Hate more then anything else is someone that thinks that they know everything. That must mean that I really hate myself", "Freedom is the right of all setient beings!" (Optimus Prime: Transformers), "That's on small step for man, one giant leap for mankind!" Neil Armstrong 8-5-30 to 8-25-12

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Apr. 11 2012, 3:32 pm

Quote: Camorite @ Apr. 11 2012, 3:17 pm

> First you are missing the point in that the combination of archers report and whatever information that they got from the el-aurrians, would have classified the Borg as a threat. Why else send an expedition to learn more about them?


well, you are assuming that they drew a connecvtion between what they learned from Archers reports and what they may have been told by the Elaurians.


Second, yes I was referring tyo the Collins from enterprise. Why would I be talking about an ensign that has nothing to do with S31.


correct me if I'm wrong but the only "Collins" from Enterprise was a female starfleet secruity officer with no known connection to section 31.


 


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Broadstorm

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POSTS: 828

Report this Apr. 11 2012, 3:44 pm

Quote: Camorite @ Apr. 11 2012, 3:08 pm

>Well broastorm, from your description it does sound like S31 and the syndicate were similare, but only to a point. As you stated they were more concerned for themselves the for the greater good of the human race, where S31 was supposed to be about the federation and its safety. As for your second comment, continuity errors are common place in any major TV series. I happen to be of the opinion that most of these errors can be explained by a combination of common sense an logic. But as you keep on avoiding talking about the topic that started this debate, I will have to assume that you have no choice but to agree with me.


I haven't avoided the real topic.  Even a fix after the fact is still a fix.  What is a fix if there is not a problem to begin with?  Anyone can use conjecture to explain away inconsistencies.  I have done it myself.  The difference is that I don't go online & dictate that other people take my conjecture as fact and berate them for not bowing down to my interpretations.  However, I guess I can play your game, too.  I'll use the example I mentioned earlier. 


Fact:  The Enterprise & several other ships were ordered to the edge of the Neutral Zone in the episode Angel One.


Fact:  The Enterprise crew stated that the Romulans had not been heard from in decades in The Neutral Zone which occurred after Angel One.


Fact:  In between these episodes were episodes that set up a potential threat to the Federation in the form of senient parasitic beings that take over the minds of their hosts.


Fact:  Section 31 has been around since before the Federation.


Conclusion:  At some point between Angel One & The Neutral Zone, perhaps during one of the epsiodes dealing with the potential invasion of those creatures that take over bodies and are being spread throughout, Section 31, MUST have wiped the memories of everyone about the encounter with the Romulans months earlier.


Do you see what I did?  I stated several things, all established canon, and formed a conclusion.  Now I demand that everyone accept it because it is all based on facts established in the series.


This is fun.  I'll have to come up with some more conclusions to demand others accept as canon.

Camorite

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 5510

Report this Apr. 11 2012, 4:02 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Apr. 11 2012, 3:32 pm

Quote: Camorite @ Apr. 11 2012, 3:17 pm

> First you are missing the point in that the combination of archers report and whatever information that they got from the el-aurrians, would have classified the Borg as a threat. Why else send an expedition to learn more about them?

well, you are assuming that they drew a connecvtion between what they learned from Archers reports and what they may have been told by the Elaurians.

Second, yes I was referring tyo the Collins from enterprise. Why would I be talking about an ensign that has nothing to do with S31.

correct me if I'm wrong but the only "Collins" from Enterprise was a female starfleet secruity officer with no known connection to section 31.

 



First, how many races are there in trek that are part organic and part cybernetic? The only one that I can think of at this time are the are the binars, and the pictures that the research team takes clearly shown that the aliens theyfound were NOT binars.

Second, as I pointed out already there is a second Collins in enterprise, this one was clearly connected to an early incarnation ofS31.

"What i Hate more then anything else is someone that thinks that they know everything. That must mean that I really hate myself", "Freedom is the right of all setient beings!" (Optimus Prime: Transformers), "That's on small step for man, one giant leap for mankind!" Neil Armstrong 8-5-30 to 8-25-12

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Apr. 11 2012, 4:12 pm

Quote: Camorite @ Apr. 11 2012, 4:02 pm

> First, how many races are there in trek that are part organic and part cybernetic?


who knows?Its a big universe.Maybe millions.


 as I pointed out already there is a second Collins in enterprise, this one was clearly connected to an early incarnation ofS31.


when did you point that out?And when was he seen?


the only 31 operative I recall from Enterprise was Harris.


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Broadstorm

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POSTS: 828

Report this Apr. 11 2012, 4:18 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Apr. 11 2012, 4:12 pm

Quote: Camorite @ Apr. 11 2012, 4:02 pm

>

> First, how many races are there in trek that are part organic and part cybernetic?

who knows?Its a big universe.Maybe millions.

 as I pointed out already there is a second Collins in enterprise, this one was clearly connected to an early incarnation ofS31.

when did you point that out?And when was he seen?

the only 31 operative I recall from Enterprise was Harris.


I checked Memory Alpha and foulnd a reference to a Commander Collins in Enterprise.  However, I don't see the relevance.  She was a StarFleet officer involved in the investigation of Phlox's abduction.

Camorite

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 5510

Report this Apr. 11 2012, 4:20 pm

Broad storm you are still missing the point. The timeline that I did back on page one has very little speculation in it. In fact, admittedly, the biggest speculation is S31's involvement, whicth is based on what we know of the organization.

As for you theory, though possible, is not very likely. A more likely senerio would be that nothing happend at the neutral zone and the romulans were nearly testing the water to see what would happen. As for the parasite invation they could havehave been responsible for some short term memory loss. The only problem is that that this theory only works for those that were infected by the parasites, and would not work for the 1701crew.

"What i Hate more then anything else is someone that thinks that they know everything. That must mean that I really hate myself", "Freedom is the right of all setient beings!" (Optimus Prime: Transformers), "That's on small step for man, one giant leap for mankind!" Neil Armstrong 8-5-30 to 8-25-12

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Apr. 11 2012, 4:25 pm

Quote: Camorite @ Apr. 11 2012, 4:20 pm

>Broad storm you are still missing the point. The timeline that I did back on page one has very little speculation in it. In fact, admittedly, the biggest speculation is S31's involvement, whicth is based on what we know of the organization. As for you theory, though possible, is not very likely. A more likely senerio would be that nothing happend at the neutral zone and the romulans were nearly testing the water to see what would happen. As for the parasite invation they could havehave been responsible for some short term memory loss. The only problem is that that this theory only works for those that were infected by the parasites, and would not work for the 1701crew.


you still haven addressed the 31 Collins issue?


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Broadstorm

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POSTS: 828

Report this Apr. 11 2012, 4:30 pm

Quote: Camorite @ Apr. 11 2012, 4:20 pm

>Broad storm you are still missing the point. The timeline that I did back on page one has very little speculation in it. In fact, admittedly, the biggest speculation is S31's involvement, whicth is based on what we know of the organization. As for you theory, though possible, is not very likely. A more likely senerio would be that nothing happend at the neutral zone and the romulans were nearly testing the water to see what would happen. As for the parasite invation they could havehave been responsible for some short term memory loss. The only problem is that that this theory only works for those that were infected by the parasites, and would not work for the 1701crew.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COSeM2EVkDc

Camorite

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 5510

Report this Apr. 11 2012, 10:11 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Apr. 11 2012, 4:25 pm

Quote: Camorite @ Apr. 11 2012, 4:20 pm

>Broad storm you are still missing the point. The timeline that I did back on page one has very little speculation in it. In fact, admittedly, the biggest speculation is S31's involvement, whicth is based on what we know of the organization. As for you theory, though possible, is not very likely. A more likely senerio would be that nothing happend at the neutral zone and the romulans were nearly testing the water to see what would happen. As for the parasite invation they could havehave been responsible for some short term memory loss. The only problem is that that this theory only works for those that were infected by the parasites, and would not work for the 1701crew.

you still haven addressed the 31 Collins issue?



Sorry, I just realized that I did make a mistake on this one (my appologies for the mistake), it was Harris who I was thinking of, not Collins.

"What i Hate more then anything else is someone that thinks that they know everything. That must mean that I really hate myself", "Freedom is the right of all setient beings!" (Optimus Prime: Transformers), "That's on small step for man, one giant leap for mankind!" Neil Armstrong 8-5-30 to 8-25-12

Camorite

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 5510

Report this Apr. 11 2012, 10:12 pm

Quote: Broadstorm @ Apr. 11 2012, 4:30 pm

Quote: Camorite @ Apr. 11 2012, 4:20 pm

>Broad storm you are still missing the point. The timeline that I did back on page one has very little speculation in it. In fact, admittedly, the biggest speculation is S31's involvement, whicth is based on what we know of the organization. As for you theory, though possible, is not very likely. A more likely senerio would be that nothing happend at the neutral zone and the romulans were nearly testing the water to see what would happen. As for the parasite invation they could havehave been responsible for some short term memory loss. The only problem is that that this theory only works for those that were infected by the parasites, and would not work for the 1701crew.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COSeM2EVkDc



Yeah, and your point is?

"What i Hate more then anything else is someone that thinks that they know everything. That must mean that I really hate myself", "Freedom is the right of all setient beings!" (Optimus Prime: Transformers), "That's on small step for man, one giant leap for mankind!" Neil Armstrong 8-5-30 to 8-25-12

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Apr. 11 2012, 10:56 pm

Quote: Camorite @ Apr. 11 2012, 10:11 pm

>Sorry, I just realized that I did make a mistake on this one (my appologies for the mistake), it was Harris who I was thinking of, not Collins.


kool, thats who I thought you ment.


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Broadstorm

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Report this Apr. 12 2012, 3:06 am

Quote: Camorite @ Apr. 11 2012, 10:12 pm

Quote: Broadstorm @ Apr. 11 2012, 4:30 pm

Quote: Camorite @ Apr. 11 2012, 4:20 pm

>

>Broad storm you are still missing the point. The timeline that I did back on page one has very little speculation in it. In fact, admittedly, the biggest speculation is S31's involvement, whicth is based on what we know of the organization. As for you theory, though possible, is not very likely. A more likely senerio would be that nothing happend at the neutral zone and the romulans were nearly testing the water to see what would happen. As for the parasite invation they could havehave been responsible for some short term memory loss. The only problem is that that this theory only works for those that were infected by the parasites, and would not work for the 1701crew.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COSeM2EVkDc

Yeah, and your point is?


I repeatedly stated that conjecture based on canon is not canon, prefaced my intentionally preposterous example with "I guess I can play your game, too." and you're trying to discredit the "conclusion" in that example rather than seeing the point that some things are just mistakes.  That's not nitpicking, just an acknowledgement that many of the writers just don't care enough to make sure they are not contradicting anything.


In The Cosby Show, there was an early episode that had the lines "Why do we have 4 kids?" & "because we didn't want 5", but then they added another who was off at college so the 4 that were there from the beginning were 2 through 5.  In an episode of Cheers, Frasier mentioned that his father was dead, but had his father living with him in the spinoff series Frasier (which happened after Cheers).  MacGyver was an only child, but as the series came to an end, there was an attempt at a spinoff series with his nephew.  Married With Children had numerous references to Peggy's family living in another county from Al, but they went to the same high school.

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Apr. 12 2012, 11:16 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>

>I thought the Borg only arrived in the Alpha/Beta quandrants because Q brought them there from the Delta Quandrant? One of the many reasons Q is so hated by Starfleet.

>

The Borg were already heading to the Alpha Quadrant, Q just sped up the timetable a bit. After "Regeneration," we know WHY they were heading this way.

for the good weed


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