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New Odo/ changeling nonesense

SeptuagintXXX

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POSTS: 79

Report this Apr. 02 2012, 2:43 pm

I posted some issues that I had with the way Odo was written, and a number of people referred me to the episode Chimera, where Laas, another changeling transformed into fog and fire.  Since it is canon that changelings can transform into fog and fire, (and at the end of the episode Odo transformed into some kind of light show for Kira), here are some questions I have:


1.  Is Laas actually fire, or does he just appear to be fire.  If he is actually fire, does he produce heat?  What is the energy source of the heat that he is producing?  does he convert matter into energy, as real fire does?  Fire is esentially nothing but pure energy.  If Laas can transform into pure energy, with a seemingly unlimited power source, can he power a shuttlecraft or phaser indefinitely?  Can he transform into an explosion? 


 


2.  If laas transforms into fog, where is his consciousness/ intelligence stored?  Whether you are talking about a biological brain or a CPU, there has to be a storage medium, and intelligene is simply the a biochemical process.  If his consciousness is diffused throughout the fog, his intelligence would drop dramatically as it would simply take longer for information to be transfrerred from one area to another. 


what is the process of his intelligence?  If he is actually fog, what causes his intelligence.  Are their neurotransmitters and electric impulses in the fog that we just can't see?


 


3.  If laas can fly through space, that means he can live in a vacuum.  He doesn't need air or food.  what does he consume.  Where does the energy come from that allows him to transform?


 


In conclusion, based on the episode Chimera, they're not just shape shifters, they're gods.  They have unlimited power and can exist as any state of matter.

OtakuJo

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Report this Apr. 02 2012, 8:50 pm

Couldn't you have just included this on the previous thread?


But it's been pretty well established that changelings a) don't need to breathe, and b) don't need to eat. (In fact, Odo referred to his own experience of eating as "messy")


Well within the realm of possibility that some lifeforms can get their energy from sources other than air or food. Look at plants. Plants drink, that is true -- but the majority of their energy comes from sunlight; and these are still terran lifeforms.


As to the question of Laas' intelligence: Again, there must be room for speculation. What is intelligence? It is basically something formed from the complexity of animal brains, and Laas could conceivably become equally complex when he is fog.


This is getting ridiculously nitpicky!


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

Hugues

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POSTS: 537

Report this Apr. 03 2012, 10:39 pm

Star Trek is science FICTION!!!!!!!


Get a life


DS9 RULES!!!!!

Raygunz89

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Report this Apr. 03 2012, 11:49 pm

Beershark

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Report this Apr. 04 2012, 12:29 am

Quote: SeptuagintXXX @ Apr. 02 2012, 2:43 pm

>

>I posted some issues that I had with the way Odo was written, and a number of people referred me to the episode Chimera, where Laas, another changeling transformed into fog and fire.  Since it is canon that changelings can transform into fog and fire, (and at the end of the episode Odo transformed into some kind of light show for Kira), here are some questions I have:

>1.  Is Laas actually fire, or does he just appear to be fire.  If he is actually fire, does he produce heat?  What is the energy source of the heat that he is producing?  does he convert matter into energy, as real fire does?  Fire is esentially nothing but pure energy.  If Laas can transform into pure energy, with a seemingly unlimited power source, can he power a shuttlecraft or phaser indefinitely?  Can he transform into an explosion? 

>2.  If laas transforms into fog, where is his consciousness/ intelligence stored?  Whether you are talking about a biological brain or a CPU, there has to be a storage medium, and intelligene is simply the a biochemical process.  If his consciousness is diffused throughout the fog, his intelligence would drop dramatically as it would simply take longer for information to be transfrerred from one area to another. 

>what is the process of his intelligence?  If he is actually fog, what causes his intelligence.  Are their neurotransmitters and electric impulses in the fog that we just can't see?

>3.  If laas can fly through space, that means he can live in a vacuum.  He doesn't need air or food.  what does he consume.  Where does the energy come from that allows him to transform?

>In conclusion, based on the episode Chimera, they're not just shape shifters, they're gods.  They have unlimited power and can exist as any state of matter.

>


1. No, just the appearence of fire.


2&3. The same questions can be asked about any state or form the changeling is in. These are the moments when we need to remember it's a sc-fi show and suspend our disbelieve.


CORPORATIONS AREN'T PEOPLE! Soylent Green is people.

Blockman

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Report this Apr. 04 2012, 3:34 am

I agree with the appearance of fire aspect.



Also, I'm not sure "gods" adhere to matter. Gods could probably traverse such things as dimensions, and time as well. Not just matter.


stovokor2000-A

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Report this Apr. 04 2012, 5:50 pm

an other thread on the same topic?


Photobucket

Hugues

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Report this Apr. 04 2012, 10:14 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Apr. 04 2012, 5:50 pm

>

>an other thread on the same topic?

>


Started by the same guy


DS9 RULES!!!!!

kkt

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POSTS: 170

Report this Apr. 07 2012, 4:12 pm

1.  I don't think there's a canonical answer.  Laas referred to himself as "fire", so I tend to think he was really hot gas, though with some modifications to allow his consciousness and ability to change back when he was done being fire.


By the way, fire is not pure energy; it's gases that have been heated until they're red, yellow, or white hot.  And no mass is converted to energy in a normal fire; the energy comes from a chemical reaction, not a nuclear reaction.  Molecules in high energy states react and produce molecules in a lower-energy state plus heat.


2.  If the writers knew how to make it really work, they'd probably be scientists in a lab somewhere, not writing for TV. 


3.  At least they can go for significant time without food or breathing.  Maybe they need to stop to absorb nutrients in some way, just not every few hours.


Again, if the writers knew where that much energy came from they'd probably be in a lab solving mankind's energy problems, rather than writing for TV.  Perhaps the founders can perform nuclear reactions in a way that produces energy they can use, without making so much heat they burn everything around them.


they're not just shape shifters, they're gods. 


Clearly not unlimited.  In the last episode, did the Female Shapeshifter shapeshift into something deadly to Cardassians and big enough to envelope the entire atmosphere of the planet?  No, she did not.  There seem to be upper limits on size.  Odo can change into something much less massive than his humanoid apearance, such as a mouse, but the largest we've seen shapeshifters is maybe 3-4 times the size of a humanoid.


It's unclear if advanced shapeshifters can travel faster than light without using a ship.  We see the Founders that are part of the Dominion using ships.  But Laas was apparently without a ship for a long time before we met him.  If he travelled between star systems at sublight speeds, it would have taken eons and that was not implied.  Maybe they can travel faster than light without a ship, but it's uncomfortable and they prefer not to.


The founders are clearly very powerful indeed.  They're less poweful than the Q, but more powerful than just about anything else in the Star Trek universe, I think.

OtakuJo

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Report this Apr. 07 2012, 5:07 pm

^ Good point above re: Not being unlimited. An unlimited being I think would not have to learn new skills. We don't know what the upper limits are on what they can learn (maybe they could potentially be as powerful as the Q) but clearly they are limited by their own level of individual proficiency.


It is repeatedly stated that Odo is less proficient than Laas and others in the Link. And the baby changeling from The Begotten clearly had to learn that it could shapeshift.


ps. The title of this thread is misleading as there is clearly nothing "new" about it!


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

generalgrin

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Report this May. 24 2012, 1:00 am

it was shown countless times that changelings can change their mass. 


Odo could go from a tiny mouse, to a huge creature on the promenade. 


So obviosly they can change their mass.


I think they can probably change their matter into various kinds of energy, and store that energy in the remaining part of their mass.


or they can use their stored energy to get bigger and increase their mass. obviously only to a certain limit, since they probably have a limit to how much energy they can store. 


during their regeneration they probably absorb all kinds of energy from their enviroment. 


that infant changeling was said to be growing in mass, probably from the energy of light and heat it was absorbing. 


another possibility is that the changelings are actually 4-dimensional beings. they can shift part of their mass into a higher dimension, yet they always need to keep a 'foothold' in the 3-dimensional space otherwise they'd disappear forever. 


so they always need to keep a presence in the 3-dimensional plane, even something small as a mouse, in order to shift the rest of their mass into the same location. and because of that they can't go through walls or disappear and reappear completely. 


having a foot in a higher dimension would also explain where they get their energy from. they don't have to eat because they're getting their energy from another dimension, maybe from subspace like the ZPM device on stargate, but obviously to a very limited extent. 


so they have enough energy to move around and to create small energy displays like fire, but they can't fire energy beams out of their bodies and stuff like that. 


as to the issue of faster than light travel, Laas was obviously able to travel between starts without a starship. so he had to have the ability to warp space. this would require either a high amount of energy, or an innate ability to influence the fabric of space. so either he could store huge amount of energy and use it to create a warp field, or he could use his presence in the higher dimension which he partly occupied in order to drag his 3-dimensional presence through space faster than light. 


we also know that changelings are telepathic. so they could probably store their mind in an energy form, they don't need to have a functioning biological brain for that.


yes they are very powerful beings, which is why so many belive them to be actual gods

MoppyCGDaniels

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Report this May. 24 2012, 9:54 am

I agree with that it works alike the molecules not brains. That's why the consciousness is placed into the goo of a Changeling. Further the Changelings don't have the need to eat in humanoid shape or also as other lifeforms for the reason Odo mentioned very often.


 


Those always used to imitate lifeforms such as birds and still be a Changeling eventhough they still are hostile.

Anime Odo

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Report this May. 24 2012, 2:18 pm

LEAVE ODO ALONE!!!!!!!! what did he ever do to YOU!!! i suspect alot of Quarks out there questining Odo's existance!


"I don't believe in luck, but I appreciate the sentiment." - Odo

generalgrin

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Report this May. 27 2012, 11:00 am

Odo morphing compilation:


 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FonGxwfk8XE

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