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Justices signal possible trouble for Obamacare mandate

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Mar. 30 2012, 12:57 pm

I was listening to some of the audio from the hearing.... The Government was basically arguing that they were completely incompetent.  It was so obvious that even those in the gallery was laughing at that the government's idiocy.


The best part that I've heard (so far) is that SCOTUS was jabbing that on one day, it's not a tax, but the next day it was going to be a tax....


 


Lady_hooha

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Report this Mar. 30 2012, 9:31 pm

Blah blah blah, look at me I'm a conservative and I think I know what's so great for the country. Right Founder? 

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Mar. 30 2012, 9:34 pm

Quote: Lady_hooha @ Mar. 30 2012, 9:31 pm

>

>Blah blah blah, look at me I'm a conservative and I think I know what's so great for the country. Right Founder? 

>
Actually.... It's Obama and his cronies telling us what's great for the country - mandated goverment control.  Libertarians / Conservatives just want government to get out of our lives so each person can make their own choice and be responsible for it.


We learned this from the Founding Fathers.


caltrek2

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Report this Mar. 31 2012, 9:18 am

So, an idea that originated with the Heritage foundation, was enacted on the the state level under the tenure of Mitt Romney, is now about to be struck down by the Supreme Court. Decades of floundering around trying to please the special interest insurance companies and big pharma lobbies that culminated in the compromise measure enacted by Congress will go down the tubes.


Why?


Because the present administration ran away fro the idea of embracing a single payer system or structuring the program as a tax. Because a Supreme Court that was selected in part by a conservative president who owed his presidency to a conservative court that wanted to assure that successors who were appointed shared their conservative values has decided that it wants to strike the measure down. Because conservatives have done nothing but be obstructionists when it comes to fixing our broken down health care system.


Fine. Lets go to a single payer system like many liberals wanted in the first place. The compromise failed. The system is broken. Lets fix it with a single payer system that relies clearly and exclusively on the constitionally provided power to tax. While we are at it, lets make sure that the next appointments to the Supreme Court are individuals who care about the general welfare of this country. A vote for Obama will ensure that.

Mirror Founder

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Report this Mar. 31 2012, 6:08 pm

Quote: caltrek2 @ Mar. 31 2012, 9:18 am

>

>So, an idea that originated with the Heritage foundation, was enacted on the the state level under the tenure of Mitt Romney, is now about to be struck down by the Supreme Court. Decades of floundering around trying to please the special interest insurance companies and big pharma lobbies that culminated in the compromise measure enacted by Congress will go down the tubes.

>Why?

>Because the present administration ran away fro the idea of embracing a single payer system or structuring the program as a tax. Because a Supreme Court that was selected in part by a conservative president who owed his presidency to a conservative court that wanted to assure that successors who were appointed shared their conservative values has decided that it wants to strike the measure down. Because conservatives have done nothing but be obstructionists when it comes to fixing our broken down health care system.

>Fine. Lets go to a single payer system like many liberals wanted in the first place. The compromise failed. The system is broken. Lets fix it with a single payer system that relies clearly and exclusively on the constitionally provided power to tax. While we are at it, lets make sure that the next appointments to the Supreme Court are individuals who care about the general welfare of this country. A vote for Obama will ensure that.

>


 


1. Bush was not nearly as conservative as you want to believe.


 


2. The obstruction of fixing our health care system is a bipartisan venture. It is not as if Obamacare would have fixed the problem.


 


3. A single-payer system won't happen here anytime in the near future. If The Obama and his massive majorities could not make that happen in 2009 then it just will not happen in this generation.


 


4. How is a vote for the man who failed to reform health care a step towards a single-payer system?

caltrek2

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Report this Apr. 01 2012, 5:50 am

MirrorFounder: 1. Bush was not nearly as conservative as you want to believe.



caltrek: Sure, now that every body seems to agree that his presidency was a disaster go ahead and disown him.


 


MirrorFounder: 2. The obstruction of fixing our health care system is a bipartisan venture. It is not as if Obamacare would have fixed the problem.


caltrek: How can you say that when it was pretty much exclusively Democrats who enacted Obamacare into law, and have suffered a lot of grief for having the political courage to do so.


Obamacare may not have fixed the problem, but it broke the log jam and could serve as a basis for further reforms that could go a long way to fixing the problem. 


MirrorFounder: 3. A single-payer system won't happen here anytime in the near future. If The Obama and his massive majorities could not make that happen in 2009 then it just will not happen in this generation.


caltrek: If the "compromise" option proposed by the Heritage Foundation and then enacted by the Democrats is shot down by the Supremes, then a single payer system remains as the one viable option left. Even some conservative TV commentators have been making a point close to that of late. With the major competing option off the table, the country can coalesce behind a single payer system.  Of course, most conservatives will continue to obstruct such a step  because of the influence of the private insurance companies who will see that as a threat to their mega profits. So for that reason, you may be right.


MorrorFounder: 4. How is a vote for the man who failed to reform health care a step towards a single-payer system?


caltrek: You think Mitt Romney is going to support a single payer system?


 


See also above.


Also, my point about the Supremes was to have a Court that cares about the general welfare of the country. My point about Obama is that he is more likely to appoint such justices. "General welfare" encompasses a lot more than just health care. No doubt many conservatives on this board will now start in on their paranoid re-interpreation of "general welfare" as a code word for whatever it is that is scaring them at the moment.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Apr. 02 2012, 9:20 am

Quote: Mirror Founder @ Mar. 31 2012, 6:08 pm

>1. Bush was not nearly as conservative as you want to believe.
Exactly.  The Bush family is ProRegressive and have been.  Anyone that thinks that all Republicans are "conservative" just show their ignorance.  Bush, McCain, Romney... all big government ProRegressives.


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Apr. 02 2012, 9:23 am

Quote: Mirror Founder @ Mar. 31 2012, 6:08 pm

>2. The obstruction of fixing our health care system is a bipartisan venture. It is not as if Obamacare would have fixed the problem.
Yes - Obamacare just makes it much worse.  We can take a look at how mismanaged Medicare/Medicaid is as an example - then multiply it.


The government screwing around with stuff is the cause of the problems within the medical insurance system.  They've used laws to stop competiton and raise prices.


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Apr. 02 2012, 9:26 am

Quote: Mirror Founder @ Mar. 31 2012, 6:08 pm

>3. A single-payer system won't happen here anytime in the near future. If The Obama and his massive majorities could not make that happen in 2009 then it just will not happen in this generation.
I hope you're right, but Obama is already positioning so that if Obamacare is thrown out (either partially or entirely,) he wants to make it even more difficult and expensive for companies to provide medical care insurance - forcing everyone to a government system where they can just call it a "tax." (Regardless of the Constitutionality of it.)


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Apr. 02 2012, 2:23 pm

So now Obama is warning SCOTUS not to overrule his dictatorial Obamacare???  Just more proof that Obama hates the US Constitution.

Mirror Founder

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Report this Apr. 05 2012, 8:52 pm

Quote: caltrek2 @ Apr. 01 2012, 5:50 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>
caltrek: Sure, now that every body seems to agree that his presidency was a disaster go ahead and disown him.

>

 

It is just a matter of keeping perceptions grounded in reality. Bush oversaw the highest levels of government funding in this nation's history (until The Obama came along.) Bush presided over the largest expansion of the federal government up to that point in the nation's history. These are not conservative actions. The man was not a conservative and to call him one is just ignorant.

>caltrek: How can you say that when it was pretty much exclusively Democrats who enacted Obamacare into law, and have suffered a lot of grief for having the political courage to do so.

>Obamacare may not have fixed the problem, but it broke the log jam and could serve as a basis for further reforms that could go a long way to fixing the problem.

 

Oamacare was not going to fix the system, only make it worse. That said, real reform cannot happen so long as both the Democrats and Republicans are allowed to trade power back and forth.

 

caltrek: If the "compromise" option proposed by the Heritage Foundation and then enacted by the Democrats is shot down by the Supremes, then a single payer system remains as the one viable option left. Even some conservative TV commentators have been making a point close to that of late. With the major competing option off the table, the country can coalesce behind a single payer system.  Of course, most conservatives will continue to obstruct such a step  because of the influence of the private insurance companies who will see that as a threat to their mega profits. So for that reason, you may be right.

 

It just won't happen. The Obama was the best chance the Democrats had of passing such a system. If he could not do it then it can't happen. The Democrats don't have anybody else with Obama's talents.

 

caltrek: You think Mitt Romney is going to support a single payer system?

 

See also above.

Also, my point about the Supremes was to have a Court that cares about the general welfare of the country. My point about Obama is that he is more likely to appoint such justices. "General welfare" encompasses a lot more than just health care. No doubt many conservatives on this board will now start in on their paranoid re-interpreation of "general welfare" as a code word for whatever it is that is scaring them at the moment.



No, I was talking about Obama. If you are going to go with general welfare then it has to benefit all of us equally. Obamacare does not benefit all of us equally.


 

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Apr. 05 2012, 9:44 pm

Quote: Mirror Founder @ Apr. 05 2012, 8:52 pm

>No, I was talking about Obama. If you are going to go with general welfare then it has to benefit all of us equally. Obamacare does not benefit all of us equally.
Exactly - I really hate how the ProRegressives completely ignore the original meaning and intent of the "general welfare" clause....  They ignore what the Federalist Papers say about it instead redefining it so that anything they want to expand government control over our lives, destroying individual liberty, comes under the "general welfare" clause....


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Jun. 28 2012, 8:10 am

Sadly..... the Supreme Court of the United States has said that ObamaCare is just a "tax"


 


 


"The Affordable Care Act is constitutional in part and unconstitutional in part The individual mandate cannot be upheld as an exercise of Congress's power under the Commerce Clause," Roberts wrote. "That Clause authorizes Congress to regulate interstate commerce, not to order individuals to engage it. In this case, however, it is reasonable to construe what Congress has done as increasing taxes on those who have a certain amount of income, but choose to go without health insurance. Such legislation is within Congress's power to tax."


 


 


So basically, Roberts is saying that the US Government can tell you to do anything it wants you to do, and if you refuse, they can tax (panalize) you.  This is an extremely dangerous precedent as it gives the Federal government limitless power over the citizens - the very thing the US Constitution was written to stop.


 


This decision will go down as another Dred Scott decision.


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Jun. 28 2012, 9:10 am

And remember.... Obama kept telling people that he wasn't going to be raising taxes and that ObamaCare isn't a tax?????


 



 


This is the largest tax increase in the history of the world.


Vicsage

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Report this Jun. 28 2012, 12:02 pm

As I've told people for some time, the constitution is about as important as toilet paper, for both sides of the political aisle.  Ignore it whenever you feel like.  You can justify ANYTHING.  And now you have Romney, basically lying, saying he's going to repeal it.  What a joke!  To repeal he'd need at least 60 senators or the Dems will fillibuster.  I'd much rather see them go after Roberts.  Impeach (make up something, who cares, rule of law is a joke anyways).   At least remove him as Chief justice and put anybody there with a backbone be they liberal or conservative.     


No response must mean you all agree.

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