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Justices signal possible trouble for Obamacare mandate

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46309

Report this Feb. 02 2013, 9:34 am

New regulation from the IRS states:


“The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) is $20,000."


 


Hmmm...  so the average premium for medical care is now $20K under Obama (for the lowest tier plan available.)


And people wonder why the unions, which supported Obamacare, are starting to get upset about Obamacare as their costs rise....


I guess that's what happens when people start reading the bill, Pelosi.

darmokattanagra

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 386

Report this Feb. 02 2013, 9:53 am

Yes, Obamacare means more profits for private insurance companies.


We get it.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46309

Report this Feb. 04 2013, 10:21 am

Anyone see the new proposed change by Obama regarding religious groups being forced to pay for things against their religion?  Now he's trying to split them into two different grops - one that is exempt from the rule because they're a non-profit and the other group (for profit) is not exempt.


 


What part of religious freedom does Obama not understand?  Why does he continue to attack Christians?

God in an Alcove

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 43

Report this Feb. 04 2013, 4:03 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Feb. 04 2013, 10:21 am

>

>Anyone see the new proposed change by Obama regarding religious groups being forced to pay for things against their religion?  Now he's trying to split them into two different grops - one that is exempt from the rule because they're a non-profit and the other group (for profit) is not exempt.

>What part of religious freedom does Obama not understand?  Why does he continue to attack Christians?

>


Are you suggesting that businesses should be considered religious organizations?


 

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46309

Report this Feb. 04 2013, 4:50 pm

Quote: God in an Alcove @ Feb. 04 2013, 4:03 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Feb. 04 2013, 10:21 am

>

>

>Anyone see the new proposed change by Obama regarding religious groups being forced to pay for things against their religion?  Now he's trying to split them into two different grops - one that is exempt from the rule because they're a non-profit and the other group (for profit) is not exempt.

>What part of religious freedom does Obama not understand?  Why does he continue to attack Christians?

>

Are you suggesting that businesses should be considered religious organizations?

 

It depends on the business.  Depending on how the owners want it to be, they can be athiest, agnostic, Christian, Muslim, .... whatever.  Just because someone is a Christian doesn't mean that they must give up their freedom.

God in an Alcove

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 43

Report this Feb. 04 2013, 4:58 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Feb. 04 2013, 4:50 pm

Quote: God in an Alcove @ Feb. 04 2013, 4:03 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Feb. 04 2013, 10:21 am

>

>

>

>Anyone see the new proposed change by Obama regarding religious groups being forced to pay for things against their religion?  Now he's trying to split them into two different grops - one that is exempt from the rule because they're a non-profit and the other group (for profit) is not exempt.

>What part of religious freedom does Obama not understand?  Why does he continue to attack Christians?

>

Are you suggesting that businesses should be considered religious organizations?

 

It depends on the business.  Depending on how the owners want it to be, they can be athiest, agnostic, Christian, Muslim, .... whatever.  Just because someone is a Christian doesn't mean that they must give up their freedom.


That also does not mean that they have the right to use their faith to control others.


Also, what "things against their religion" are you referring to?

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46309

Report this Feb. 04 2013, 5:25 pm

Quote: God in an Alcove @ Feb. 04 2013, 4:58 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Feb. 04 2013, 4:50 pm

Quote: God in an Alcove @ Feb. 04 2013, 4:03 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Feb. 04 2013, 10:21 am

>

>

>

>

>Anyone see the new proposed change by Obama regarding religious groups being forced to pay for things against their religion?  Now he's trying to split them into two different grops - one that is exempt from the rule because they're a non-profit and the other group (for profit) is not exempt.

>What part of religious freedom does Obama not understand?  Why does he continue to attack Christians?

>

Are you suggesting that businesses should be considered religious organizations?

 

It depends on the business.  Depending on how the owners want it to be, they can be athiest, agnostic, Christian, Muslim, .... whatever.  Just because someone is a Christian doesn't mean that they must give up their freedom.

That also does not mean that they have the right to use their faith to control others.

Also, what "things against their religion" are you referring to?

Since their employees are not slaves, the employees do not have to work there - they have the freedom to go someone else.  Remember, medical insurance is a benefit and each companies have different benefit packages.


Obamacare forces companies to pay for things (contraceptives, abortions, etc.) within their medical insurance that conflict with religious beliefs.  How can the government tell someone that they must violate their religious principles?

darmokattanagra

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 386

Report this Feb. 04 2013, 6:17 pm

Depending on how the owners want it to be, they can be athiest, agnostic...


So it would be okay if an atheist employer denied coverage to a Christian employee?

Sora

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2606

Report this Feb. 04 2013, 11:10 pm

What Fleetadmirall Bam Bam is trying to say, and I agree, is that it's wrong for the federal government to tell a private business what they can or cannot do.


I am a Christian as well, and yes our Lord and Savior tells us that life is a precious thing, and that Abortion is wrong. Well here comes Emperor Obama saying I don't give a crap what God says, we're killing babies cause that's what we liberals like pretty much.


And I also agree with the statement made that if a place of business is based on Christianity, you don't have to work there if you don't want to. Same as if a Christian decided he/she didn't want to work in a business that supports Muslim belief for example.


The bible isn't just a book, and it isn't just a religion, it's the real and honest truth, and frankly I don't care if anyone is offended by that comment because it's the truth, and someday we will all stand before God, and alot of people will be standing there saying oh crap, why didn't believe? Why did I refuse to see the truth? This is the faith that Obama walks all over. God tells us that He must come first, but Obama says the government comes first...what the Christian businesses are doing, is saying no we are not going to support abortions, because God says that is wrong, and Obama tries to twist it around like he twists everything around.


 


And what is truely unfair is that we are made fun of for being Christians, and pretty much referred to as "backward farm hicks" for having faith in God and what the bible teaches.


But if anyone says anything negative about any other religion, makes fun of it, whatever, than the person in question is called mean and hateful and intolorant. But isn't considered intolorant to hate Christians. It's a tidy little arrangement...

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46309

Report this Feb. 05 2013, 1:02 pm

Hmmm... CBO's latest projections say that 7 MILLION people will lose their current medical care insurance directly due to Obamacare.  This is about twice the previous estimate... but like all government programs, the numbers keep growing more and more as time goes on.


 


Remember... the MESSiah promised over and over that people would be able to keep their plans...

God in an Alcove

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 43

Report this Feb. 08 2013, 3:22 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Feb. 04 2013, 5:25 pm

Quote: God in an Alcove @ Feb. 04 2013, 4:58 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Feb. 04 2013, 4:50 pm

Quote: God in an Alcove @ Feb. 04 2013, 4:03 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Feb. 04 2013, 10:21 am

>

>

>

>

>

>Anyone see the new proposed change by Obama regarding religious groups being forced to pay for things against their religion?  Now he's trying to split them into two different grops - one that is exempt from the rule because they're a non-profit and the other group (for profit) is not exempt.

>What part of religious freedom does Obama not understand?  Why does he continue to attack Christians?

>

Are you suggesting that businesses should be considered religious organizations?

 

It depends on the business.  Depending on how the owners want it to be, they can be athiest, agnostic, Christian, Muslim, .... whatever.  Just because someone is a Christian doesn't mean that they must give up their freedom.

That also does not mean that they have the right to use their faith to control others.

Also, what "things against their religion" are you referring to?

Since their employees are not slaves, the employees do not have to work there - they have the freedom to go someone else.  Remember, medical insurance is a benefit and each companies have different benefit packages.

Obamacare forces companies to pay for things (contraceptives, abortions, etc.) within their medical insurance that conflict with religious beliefs.  How can the government tell someone that they must violate their religious principles?


So what do those employees do if there is simply no other jobs available?


Contraceptives and abortions are not against Christian values. Contraception simply did not exist at the time, and abortion, which is an issue which was more prevalent during the time of Christ, is never mentioned. The value of the life of an unborn child was specifically given a secondary role in the OT, and it was simply never mentioned during the NT; abortive measures were readily available during the time of Christ, yet He never even broached the subject. Those who oppose such measures follow the words of individuals who lived and died centuries after Jesus lived and died.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46309

Report this Feb. 08 2013, 8:54 am

Quote: God in an Alcove @ Feb. 08 2013, 3:22 am

>So what do those employees do if there is simply no other jobs available?
Don't confuse medical insurance with a job - they're two different things.  It's just that the majority of people obtain medical insurance through the employer. Nothing is stopping a person from obtaining medical insurance directly.


And there are always jobs out there - it just may not be what a person wants to do or earning as much as they used to.  Additionally, someone could start their own small business.... well, unless the government's regulations get in the way.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46309

Report this Feb. 08 2013, 9:01 am

Quote: God in an Alcove @ Feb. 08 2013, 3:22 am

>Contraceptives and abortions are not against Christian values. Contraception simply did not exist at the time, and abortion, which is an issue which was more prevalent during the time of Christ, is never mentioned. The value of the life of an unborn child was specifically given a secondary role in the OT, and it was simply never mentioned during the NT; abortive measures were readily available during the time of Christ, yet He never even broached the subject. Those who oppose such measures follow the words of individuals who lived and died centuries after Jesus lived and died.
Do you speak for all Christians?  I know I don't.  Just because you don't think they're against some Christian's values doesn't mean that applies to all Christians.


Many Christians don't have problem with contraceptives, but most view abortion as murder.  Yes, there are someone that don't like contraceptives at all and some Christians say abortion is okay.


It's like some Christians think that drinking wine is a sin and some don't.


 


But.... the major point is that the goverment is saying that it can override religion, which is blatantly anti-Constitutional


Lone Palm

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 207

Report this Feb. 08 2013, 9:26 am

So what do those employees do if there is simply no other jobs available?


I would also add to BamBam's statement (do not confuse medical insurance for a job), do not confuse the government sector with the private sector. Once the government backs an industry with subsidies, the industry (and any job therein) is funded by tax payer dollars, as opposed to consumer choice. The government will rob the private sector - to the point of destruction - to fund pet projects in an attempt to validate its unconstitutional intervention. 
 

God in an Alcove

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 43

Report this Feb. 09 2013, 4:01 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Feb. 08 2013, 8:54 am

>

>]Don't confuse medical insurance with a job - they're two different things.

>


I'm not. I was asking a specific question. What does someone, whether they dislike their benefits, perks, or payrate, do, if the only other option is unemployment?

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