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Odo is the most nonsensical character EVER!

SeptuagintXXX

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POSTS: 79

Report this Mar. 24 2012, 7:48 am

Odo is the most poorly planned, poorly written character in all of Trek.  It's almost like the writers don't really understand what he is.  For example, there's an early episode of DS9 where Odo gets hit in the head by some falling rocks.  He gets knocked unconscious.  Why would getting hit in the "head" knock him unconscious? There isn't a brain in that head.  His "head" is no different than any other part of his "body".  


Then, in a season 6 episode he's talking to another changeling who suggests that he can turn into a cloud.  A cloud is simply water vapor.  You mean to tell me that odo can transform himself into gas?!?!  He's invincible.  He could transform himself into mustard gas, and kill all his enemies just like that.  He's the most power creature in the start trek universe other than Q and Negilum. 


Then, they make a story arch where he falls in love with Major Kira.  It doesn't make any sense.  "love" is the emotion attached to the biological imperative of reproduction.  We are attracted to suitable mates for teh purpose of procreation.  Odo isn't really a "man".  He's a blob that can make himself look like a man.  Why would he be attrackted to Kira.  There's nothing about his biology that would make him attracted to her.  He could just as easily spend his time as a Klingon Targ.  Would he then be attracted to a female Targ?


Why do the changelings have any gender at all?  Does that make sense?  what is the point of gender in a species that can transform itself into a rock or a cloud and combine into one giant organism called the great link. 


 


The way they have written the character simply makes no sense.  I am a NERD.  It pisses me off.

Pooneil

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POSTS: 1023

Report this Mar. 24 2012, 9:10 am

Odo is a blob that was raised by humanoids, lives among humanoids, and basically thinks of himself as a male humanoid. It follows that he would fall in love like a humanoid, since he also shows other humanoid emotions. I'm sure that if he was raised by targs he'd be perfectly capable of falling in love with another targ.

OtakuJo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16362

Report this Mar. 24 2012, 8:01 pm

Quote: SeptuagintXXX @ Mar. 24 2012, 7:48 am

>

>Why do the changelings have any gender at all?  Does that make sense?  what is the point of gender in a species that can transform itself into a rock or a cloud and combine into one giant organism called the great link.

>


Do the changelings have gender, or do they just fake it? It could just be that they see this as a part of humanoids, and so mimic gender in order to blend into humanoid populations. A useful skill when conducting espionage for example. And if not, what in their basic physiognomy would make it irrelevant? Fact is, nobody can say in any case that it does or does not make sense -- not without going into every minute detail of what it means to be "changeling". You can try if you want to but to be honest, I'm glad that no-one went into that much pedantic detail on the series.


Shapeshifting abilities, like speech and physical co-ordination in humans, is something that must be learnt over time. There is nothing to suggest that Odo (young as he is in comparison to others of his kind) ought to be "all powerful" -- especially as he says himself that his ability to shapeshift is limited.


As far as his feelings about Kira, there is nothing to suggest that he would have to fall for a female humanoid, but also nothing at all to suggest that he can't. And also, Odo has grown up amongst humanoids. If not one of them physically, he has inherited many of their cultural traits and values. Besides which, his own personality is compatible with Kira's -- the argument that he ought to be just as attracted to targs (Perhaps in another life he might have been...) ignores the part that a person's character plays in love.


ps. Odo rocks


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

Mitchz95

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POSTS: 1830

Report this Mar. 24 2012, 8:36 pm

Odo is the most poorly planned, poorly written character in all of Trek.


I disagree.


For example, there's an early episode of DS9 where Odo gets hit in the head by some falling rocks.  He gets knocked unconscious.  Why would getting hit in the "head" knock him unconscious? There isn't a brain in that head.  His "head" is no different than any other part of his "body".  


As explainted in "The Adversary", when he's in humanoid form he's as vulnerable as any humanoid. If he'd seen it coming, he could have altered himself to avoid being injured by the impact.


Then, in a season 6 episode he's talking to another changeling who suggests that he can turn into a cloud.  A cloud is simply water vapor.  You mean to tell me that odo can transform himself into gas?!?!  He's invincible.  He could transform himself into mustard gas, and kill all his enemies just like that.  He's the most power creature in the start trek universe other than Q and Negilum. 


Not really. Q is omnipotent(ish) and we didn't see enough of Nagilum to guage his powers, but obviously he's pretty powerful. Odo is supposedly limited by his own mass, and can't, for example, grow to 50 times his size at will. As for turning into gas and suffocating people, I don't think being breathed into people would be a lot of fun. Chances are, he'd die in the process when the gas gets circulated into the lungs.


Then, they make a story arch where he falls in love with Major Kira.  It doesn't make any sense.  "love" is the emotion attached to the biological imperative of reproduction.  We are attracted to suitable mates for teh purpose of procreation.  Odo isn't really a "man".  He's a blob that can make himself look like a man.  Why would he be attrackted to Kira.  There's nothing about his biology that would make him attracted to her.  He could just as easily spend his time as a Klingon Targ.  Would he then be attracted to a female Targ?


I think Pooneil explained this more than sufficiently.


Why do the changelings have any gender at all?  Does that make sense?  what is the point of gender in a species that can transform itself into a rock or a cloud and combine into one giant organism called the great link. 


They don't. They just mimic gender when in humanoid form, and they have an androgymous appearence when they do.


The way they have written the character simply makes no sense.  I am a NERD.  It pisses me off.


You have my sympathy.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

stovokor2000-A

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POSTS: 2001

Report this Mar. 24 2012, 9:58 pm

Quote: SeptuagintXXX @ Mar. 24 2012, 7:48 am

>Odo is the most poorly planned, poorly written character in all of Trek. 


I'll agree the writers didnt fully understand what he was/could be capable od doing.


But Odo has some of the best moments in this series.


Then, they make a story arch where he falls in love with Major Kira.  It doesn't make any sense.  "love" is the emotion attached to the biological imperative of reproduction.  We are attracted to suitable mates for teh purpose of procreation.  Odo isn't really a "man".  He's a blob that can make himself look like a man.  Why would he be attrackted to Kira.  There's nothing about his biology that would make him attracted to her.


People have been known to fall in love with cars,cell phones.


You can call them sick if you like, but if people can fall in love weith objects it doesnt seem so weaird that a alien blob can love a person.


Also, Odo's biology is one of a alin rase that spends much of its time in a joined state with others of their kind.Being seprarted at so young an age, its not supprising that he would want and seek out others to replecate that which is natural for him.


Why do the changelings have any gender at all?  Does that make sense?  what is the point of gender in a species that can transform itself into a rock or a cloud and combine into one giant organism called the great link. 


They werent always shape shifters.And they spend a lot of time ewith solids that have gender, its logical to assume they would pick up trailts asnd mannerizems of those they mimic.


 


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Broadstorm

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Report this Mar. 26 2012, 8:27 pm

Quote: Mitchz95 @ Mar. 24 2012, 8:36 pm

>

>For example, there's an early episode of DS9 where Odo gets hit in the head by some falling rocks.  He gets knocked unconscious.  Why would getting hit in the "head" knock him unconscious? There isn't a brain in that head.  His "head" is no different than any other part of his "body".  

>As explainted in "The Adversary", when he's in humanoid form he's as vulnerable as any humanoid. If he'd seen it coming, he could have altered himself to avoid being injured by the impact.

>Then, in a season 6 episode he's talking to another changeling who suggests that he can turn into a cloud.  A cloud is simply water vapor.  You mean to tell me that odo can transform himself into gas?!?!  He's invincible.  He could transform himself into mustard gas, and kill all his enemies just like that.  He's the most power creature in the start trek universe other than Q and Negilum. 

>Not really. Q is omnipotent(ish) and we didn't see enough of Nagilum to guage his powers, but obviously he's pretty powerful. Odo is supposedly limited by his own mass, and can't, for example, grow to 50 times his size at will. As for turning into gas and suffocating people, I don't think being breathed into people would be a lot of fun. Chances are, he'd die in the process when the gas gets circulated into the lungs.

>Then, they make a story arch where he falls in love with Major Kira.  It doesn't make any sense.  "love" is the emotion attached to the biological imperative of reproduction.  We are attracted to suitable mates for teh purpose of procreation.  Odo isn't really a "man".  He's a blob that can make himself look like a man.  Why would he be attrackted to Kira.  There's nothing about his biology that would make him attracted to her.  He could just as easily spend his time as a Klingon Targ.  Would he then be attracted to a female Targ?

>I think Pooneil explained this more than sufficiently.

>Why do the changelings have any gender at all?  Does that make sense?  what is the point of gender in a species that can transform itself into a rock or a cloud and combine into one giant organism called the great link. 

>They don't. They just mimic gender when in humanoid form, and they have an androgymous appearence when they do.

>


It does still raise a question of why Odo would be sexually attracted to Kira.  I understand the friendship of it, but if the Changelings are genderless, then why would they develop sexual attraction regardless of what their outward appearance happens to be?


Odo has changed his mass.  He turned himself into a glass that a Ferengi (maybe Rom before he became a more significant character) carried on a tray.  When he liquifies, he fills a bucket most of the way, or when he was trapped in a turbolift with Lwaxana Troi, she held him in her dress.  I doubt he weighs so little when he is in a humanoid form.


Also, how is it that he can form something as intricate as sensory organs or working technology, but can't form a face?

Mitchz95

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POSTS: 1830

Report this Mar. 26 2012, 8:33 pm

It does still raise a question of why Odo would be sexually attracted to Kira.  I understand the friendship of it, but if the Changelings are genderless, then why would they develop sexual attraction regardless of what their outward appearance happens to be?


Maybe he isn't.


Odo has changed his mass.  He turned himself into a glass that a Ferengi (maybe Rom before he became a more significant character) carried on a tray.  When he liquifies, he fills a bucket most of the way, or when he was trapped in a turbolift with Lwaxana Troi, she held him in her dress.  I doubt he weighs so little when he is in a humanoid form.


Maybe he was an extra-heavy glass. Maybe he was spread out enough on Lwaxana's dress to be 'light'. Or maybe you're right and he can change his mass. I don't know, I'm just going by what I remember.


Also, how is it that he can form something as intricate as sensory organs or working technology, but can't form a face?


You've got me there. Maybe he became more adept at shapeshifting later in the series, but decided to stick with his 'normal' face because he was used to it. He did show a preference to his old face in "Apocalypse Rising".


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

stovokor2000-A

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POSTS: 2001

Report this Mar. 26 2012, 8:41 pm

Quote: Broadstorm @ Mar. 26 2012, 8:27 pm

>

>It does still raise a question of why Odo would be sexually attracted to Kira.  I understand the friendship of it, but if the Changelings are genderless, then why would they develop sexual attraction regardless of what their outward appearance happens to be?

>Odo has changed his mass.  He turned himself into a glass that a Ferengi (maybe Rom before he became a more significant character) carried on a tray.  When he liquifies, he fills a bucket most of the way, or when he was trapped in a turbolift with Lwaxana Troi, she held him in her dress.  I doubt he weighs so little when he is in a humanoid form.

>Also, how is it that he can form something as intricate as sensory organs or working technology, but can't form a face?

>


It may not have been so much a sexual attraction then one of love.And again, he mimiced males so long its no shoch he picked up some male traits.He could make himself appare like some tech but he wouldnt


He could mass shift, but it seemeda bit limited.


He wasnt capable of forming sensory organs or working technology, what made you think he could.Chairs,cups,taples sure, but thats as far as working tech he could form.He could taske the apparance of modern tech but not functinal.


Same went with the biological forms he miciced, he never could fully mimic the internal workings of the life forms he mimiced.So he could make himself look like a "rat", but that rat wouldnt fully read on a tricorder like a real rat.


Althou he got better with lower life forms lover the years, the huminoid face had far to many mussles for him to mimic


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Mitchz95

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POSTS: 1830

Report this Mar. 26 2012, 8:46 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Mar. 26 2012, 8:41 pm

>

>He wasnt capable of forming sensory organs or working technology, what made you think he could.Chairs,cups,taples sure, but thats as far as working tech he could form.He could taske the apparance of modern tech but not functinal.

>


What about his combadge? It appeared to be made of the same material as the rest of him, and it worked like any other.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

stovokor2000-A

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POSTS: 2001

Report this Mar. 26 2012, 8:53 pm

Quote: Mitchz95 @ Mar. 26 2012, 8:46 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Mar. 26 2012, 8:41 pm

>

>

>He wasnt capable of forming sensory organs or working technology, what made you think he could.Chairs,cups,taples sure, but thats as far as working tech he could form.He could taske the apparance of modern tech but not functinal.

>

What about his combadge? It appeared to be made of the same material as the rest of him, and it worked like any other.

Did he form the badge or did he just carry a real one?


Correct me if Im wrong but I recall a time he lost control of his solid form and the badge was seen on the floor surrounded by his liquid form.


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Broadstorm

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Report this Mar. 26 2012, 9:13 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Mar. 26 2012, 8:53 pm

Quote: Mitchz95 @ Mar. 26 2012, 8:46 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Mar. 26 2012, 8:41 pm

>

>

>

>He wasnt capable of forming sensory organs or working technology, what made you think he could.Chairs,cups,taples sure, but thats as far as working tech he could form.He could taske the apparance of modern tech but not functinal.

>

What about his combadge? It appeared to be made of the same material as the rest of him, and it worked like any other.

Did he form the badge or did he just carry a real one?

Correct me if Im wrong but I recall a time he lost control of his solid form and the badge was seen on the floor surrounded by his liquid form.


 


If there wasn't a sexual component to it, then why would he have been jealous of Kira's lovers?


 


He obviously formed sensory organs.  How else could he hear or see?  He also formed the ability for speech, which would seem somewhat more complex than a face.


There was an episode (early in the series, probably season 1 or 2) when he liquified to slip through the cracks to get into a room.  I doubt even Cardassian design was so poor as to leave an opening wide enough for a combadge to get through.


 


 


 

stovokor2000-A

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POSTS: 2001

Report this Mar. 26 2012, 9:22 pm

Quote: Broadstorm @ Mar. 26 2012, 9:13 pm

>If there wasn't a sexual component to it, then why would he have been jealous of Kira's lovers?


jealousy is not dependent on sexual attraction.


He obviously formed sensory organs.  How else could he hear or see?  He also formed the ability for speech, which would seem somewhat more complex than a face.


theres noting obvious about it.He was capable of seeeing and hearing in his liquid form.


There was an episode (early in the series, probably season 1 or 2) when he liquified to slip through the cracks to get into a room.  I doubt even Cardassian design was so poor as to leave an opening wide enough for a combadge to get through.


why woiuld you doubt that?Cardassian designs alowed for the rat like Vols to get trew small openings.Not to mention that we saw Odo turn into a mouse in the first episode to get into rooms.


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Broadstorm

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Report this Mar. 26 2012, 9:26 pm

I'm not going to help you derail yet another thread with another pointless semantics debate.

stovokor2000-A

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POSTS: 2001

Report this Mar. 26 2012, 9:31 pm

Quote: Broadstorm @ Mar. 26 2012, 9:26 pm

>I'm not going to help you derail yet another thread with another pointless semantics debate.
pointless semantics??


Dude your argument points are just weak.Theres no shame in not being able to provide an effective counter.


I dont deny that the writers made some mistakes, but the ones you are pointing out just arent issues.


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OtakuJo

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POSTS: 16362

Report this Mar. 26 2012, 9:37 pm

Quote: Broadstorm @ Mar. 26 2012, 9:13 pm

>

>If there wasn't a sexual component to it, then why would he have been jealous of Kira's lovers?

>


Note to menfolk of this world:


Romance, (and therefore jealousy) does happen independent of sex!
___________________________________________________________


Odo's jealousy was an emotional reaction to an emotional conundrum.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

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