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Klingon Empire

chr33355

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POSTS: 1551

Report this Mar. 09 2012, 7:45 am

Given the state of Klingon ships we see in Enterprise it is impossible for these people to have developed warp on their own.  I hate that they change Klingons from knights/samari to space vikings.

chr33355

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POSTS: 1551

Report this Mar. 09 2012, 7:46 am

Quote: bvbpl @ Mar. 09 2012, 6:04 am

>

>I don't see why a space society can't exist as a total war moblized war economy.  A Mathias pointed out, plenty of Earth societies, like the Apache, did it for years.

class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.25in;">And these raider societies don't necessarily need breathing room from other large societies either.  The Mongols sure proved that.

class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.25in;">Earth history demonstrates you don't always need advanced technology or even a pre ponderance of arms and men to take on other major powers.  The will is way more important.

>
 It is less that we can't see them exisiting it is how they managed to devlop warp travel and space society level technology.


guillermo.mejía

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Report this Mar. 09 2012, 7:57 am

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Mar. 09 2012, 7:20 am

>

>I don't think Chang got the Nazi reference but I was like "Oh snap!"

>Though the Klingons had many opposing powers, they still had a frontier.  They weren't boxed in like a central European nation.

>A war economy can be maintained so long as you have the resources to maintain it.  As we saw in an episode of ENT and some TOS, the Klingons would take pre warp worlds and devour their resources so income and materiel was not a problem.

>The big question is did they have the resources in soldier replenishment.  I don't think this was an issue because, for the most part, the Kingons avoided direct conflict with enemies on par with them and focused on races who couldn't defend themselves.  I imagine their campaign losses were light.  For all their talk, the Klingons are more bullies than honorable warriors.

>
It's interesting for me to think about all of this now.


When I first saw the movie I must have been 13 to 14, and this was about 5 years after it first came out. I knew Hitler was one of history's evil figures, but I didn't really get the context of why Kikr pulled the Nazi card right there.


"Aye. And if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon." - Scotty, The Miracle Worker since 2265.

miklamar

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Report this Mar. 09 2012, 12:48 pm

War is always wasteful and counterproductive, except to arms dealers.  I read a great book that told of all the great artists--poets, writers, painters, etc.--who had been killed in World War I.  And of course, there were other good and talented people who were killed then.  Such a tragic waste of blessings--and, for what purpose?


Just think of the wonderful advances that civilization could make in terms of water purification--including turning saltwater into drinking water--food production, medical and health advances and all kinds of other glorious scientific, technological and inventive progress we could have made, with all the money and talent that warfare has wasted!


If we had begun colonizing and mining other planets in our solar system, instead, just think of where we would be now!


Var Miklama--Zakdorn, engineer. "A sound mind in a FULL body!" "Time, like latinum, is a limited quantity in the galaxy."

Broadstorm

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Report this Mar. 09 2012, 3:51 pm

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Mar. 09 2012, 7:20 am

>

>The big question is did they have the resources in soldier replenishment.  I don't think this was an issue because, for the most part, the Kingons avoided direct conflict with enemies on par with them and focused on races who couldn't defend themselves.  I imagine their campaign losses were light.  For all their talk, the Klingons are more bullies than honorable warriors.

>


When they are going around bullying prewarp cultures to stripmine their worlds like the Cardassians, their losses probably would be light as you said, but when they constantly provoke other major powers, they would get into trouble.  It has been stated that they don't adapt well to sudden changes in circumstances in battle. Klingons also have a tendency to underestimate their opposition.  These are major problems in combat.


During the Dominion war, when the UFP & Romulan ships had trouble with the Breen weapons, the Klingons continued the offensive, further weakening themselves.  There was also an epsiode in which the Romulans complained about thier ships being given the lower priority or repairs.  O'Brien explained that he went by how badly damaged the ships were & Klingon ships were routinely taking more damage.  A Klingon then pointed out that they get in closer because they are willing to take heavy losses to achieve an objective. 


The Klingons have basically been kept roughly equivalent to the UFP for 200 years.  I just don't see that balance being maintained for so long.  The Federation grows by treaties while the Klingon Empire grows through conflict, which even with light losses, is still less productive than treaties.  We know of 2 major powers they have repeatedly provoked, but what about on other fronts?  Are there no other major powers that they clash with?

OneDamnMinuteAdmiral

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POSTS: 1401

Report this Mar. 09 2012, 4:19 pm

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Mar. 09 2012, 7:20 am

>

>For all their talk, the Klingons are more bullies than honorable warriors.

>


I totally agree with this, only a few have actually been honorable. I mean Kor was executing people he thought to be helpless pacifists, Kruge destroyed a science ship and murdered a scientist, General Chang assassinated his own chancellor, and the house of Duras sold out their own people. Honorable indeed.


The only ones that seemed to have honor were Kang, Worf, Gen. Korrd, Martok, and the lawyer in Enterprise his name escapes me. Captain Klaa might have become one since he could at least admit when he was wrong.


Are you sure it isn't time for a colorful metaphor?

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