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Canon or not canon?

RStar17

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 382

Report this May. 28 2012, 9:20 am

Really canon debates are just silly. Who gets to chose what is and isn't? You could argue Gene Roddenberry, but even he picked and chose in the case of TAS. Which I never actually got around to watching.


You have some people who say only TOS and TNG are... others who say anything on TV is, others anything published under the Star Trek name is. Novels get tricky too. Jeri Ryan once stated that since she was a Voyager producer, her Voyager novels are canon, others say no novels are canon. Heck some people are arguing that the ST09 movie made everything save Enterprise non-canon, while others argue ST09 itself isn't.


You could honestly just change the word canon with opinion. That's all it is really. It's the opinion of one's imagination and what should and shouldn't fit into the Trekverse. As for the concept of purists, you could interchange that word with elitist. That's basicly the concept of saying "my opinion is right and you're wrong."


Imagination is what a franchise like Star Trek taps into. Each imagination that partakes in the series in whatever form is free to make up their own mind what is and isn't.  


stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this May. 28 2012, 9:37 am

Quote: RStar17 @ May. 28 2012, 9:20 am

>You could honestly just change the word canon with opinion. That's all it is really. It's the opinion of one's imagination and what should and shouldn't fit into the Trekverse.


thats because so many seem to misun derstand the term and how it should be used.Most seem to think its refers to continuity and how things fit.So if something doesnt fit it cant be canon.


But thats not the case.Forgive me if this sounds rude or an attack, but this has nothing to do with opinion , or if things and all to do with policy.If the TV show says Cocran was born in January and the film says he was born in March..........which is canon?


The answer is both.Canon , by policy,refers to anything that has been officaly added to the trsak universe in an offical product.All episodes, all films and thats it as the policy stands.


We, the fasns, have no say in whats canon, the shows creator also had no say.Writers, producers only have as much say as they release in the finished products.


 


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Gawain_VIII

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POSTS: 191

Report this Jun. 04 2012, 5:54 am

Peronally, I consider TAS to be canon in every respect execpt where it is contradicted by other on-screen sources (which, suprisingly, is very few). I treat other officially licensed extensions of the francise the same way--books, RPGs, computer games, etc.

Tribble Wrangler

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POSTS: 23

Report this Jun. 10 2012, 7:00 pm

I myself have always considered it canon...and I always will

Laveycee

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POSTS: 3

Report this Jun. 11 2012, 10:45 pm

At the end of the day, most of TAS isn't canon.  For example, episodes such as "The Magicks of Megas-Tu" probably aren't canon.  (For me, that's when TAS jumped the shark and died for me.)  For one, that's where the Enterprise and Sybok and his followers went in The Final Frontier.  Although the episode was hilarious...


But back to my original point.  Some of TAS is considered canon by most Trekkies, but others think that none of it's canon.  It's all your opinion.  I don't consider all of it canon--partly because it pained me to watch (that awful animation!) and partly because some of it was too...well, insane to be considered canon.  I mean, magic?  Seriously?  That went into fantasy, people, not sci-fi!


Okay, sorry, rant over.


 


Weird is normal. Therefore normal is weird. I can see Vulcans shuddering at my lack of logic.

Mitchz95

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POSTS: 1830

Report this Jun. 25 2012, 1:17 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>yesteryear was the only episode that was canon according to wikipedia

>


Some stuff from that episode has become part of canon, but the episode itself is no more canon than the rest of TAS.


You shouldn't really rely on Wikipedia. Use Memory Alpha instead; it's not perfect either but it's much closer.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

Mitchz95

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POSTS: 1830

Report this Jun. 26 2012, 1:23 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>mitchz95 i can rely on wikipedia if i want.

>


It was just a suggestion.


 



"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

guillermo.mejía

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POSTS: 2852

Report this Jun. 27 2012, 7:42 am

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ May. 28 2012, 9:37 am

>....If the TV show says Cocran was born in January and the film says he was born in March..........which is canon?

>The answer is both.


Whoop whoop whoop


Actually, both would not be the right answer there. In long lived franchises, be it TV, comic or movies, there is such as thing a recon...a retelling of certain elements to make those elements better fight with present day stories. For example, Batman (Bruce Wayne) was active in the 1940's, DC Comic is not that he first became active two decades ago. Kirk's middle initial was once "R", now it's "T". Sure, fans can make up all sorts of explanations as to why Mitcheel made the mistake, but it's as simple as Gene, or whoever wrote the episode, either felt like changing it, or forgot the T had been used. Not to mention that it was a pilot episode anyway.


"Aye. And if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon." - Scotty, The Miracle Worker since 2265.

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Jun. 27 2012, 10:36 am

Quote: guillermo.mejía @ Jun. 27 2012, 7:42 am

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ May. 28 2012, 9:37 am

>

>....If the TV show says Cocran was born in January and the film says he was born in March..........which is canon?

>The answer is both.

Whoop whoop whoop

Actually, both would not be the right answer there. In long lived franchises, be it TV, comic or movies, there is such as thing a recon...a retelling of certain elements to make those elements better fight with present day stories. For example, Batman (Bruce Wayne) was active in the 1940's, DC Comic is not that he first became active two decades ago. Kirk's middle initial was once "R", now it's "T". Sure, fans can make up all sorts of explanations as to why Mitcheel made the mistake, but it's as simple as Gene, or whoever wrote the episode, either felt like changing it, or forgot the T had been used. Not to mention that it was a pilot episode anyway.

I dont see how any of that address what I said.


Its a common misconception that canon is the equal of the right answer......it is not.


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guillermo.mejía

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POSTS: 2852

Report this Jun. 27 2012, 12:33 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Jun. 27 2012, 10:36 am

Quote: guillermo.mejía @ Jun. 27 2012, 7:42 am

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ May. 28 2012, 9:37 am

>

>

>....If the TV show says Cocran was born in January and the film says he was born in March..........which is canon?

>The answer is both.

Whoop whoop whoop

Actually, both would not be the right answer there. In long lived franchises, be it TV, comic or movies, there is such as thing a recon...a retelling of certain elements to make those elements better fight with present day stories. For example, Batman (Bruce Wayne) was active in the 1940's, DC Comic is not that he first became active two decades ago. Kirk's middle initial was once "R", now it's "T". Sure, fans can make up all sorts of explanations as to why Mitcheel made the mistake, but it's as simple as Gene, or whoever wrote the episode, either felt like changing it, or forgot the T had been used. Not to mention that it was a pilot episode anyway.

I dont see how any of that address what I said.

Its a common misconception that canon is the equal of the right answer......it is not.

Well you can't just have two right answers. At one point the ansswer in canon was one, then it became another. First he was James R. Kirk in canon, now he's James T. Kirk.


Take a real world example. Pluto used to be a Planet as far as everyone (even scientists) were concerned, now it's not. History, even ours gets rewriten.


"Aye. And if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon." - Scotty, The Miracle Worker since 2265.

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Jun. 27 2012, 1:11 pm

Quote: guillermo.mejía @ Jun. 27 2012, 12:33 pm

>Well you can't just have two right answers. At one point the ansswer in canon was one, then it became another. First he was James R. Kirk in canon, now he's James T. Kirk.

>Take a real world example. Pluto used to be a Planet as far as everyone (even scientists) were concerned, now it's not. History, even ours gets rewriten.

>


this is a work of fiction, not the real world.Canon is not about what is right or wrong, but about what has been seen/said within the body of the series.


yes things are changed, stories are altered, but its still all canon.Mistakes are made...but mistakes are still canon.


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guillermo.mejía

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POSTS: 2852

Report this Jun. 28 2012, 7:53 am

Hmmm, you definition of canon is different from mine. I see canon as the factual historical line of the fiction world in question. That's why we aren't.....meshing.



I could debate TAS conon till I get blue in the face (pun intended). Just the Bonaventure Class is fodder enough.


"Aye. And if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon." - Scotty, The Miracle Worker since 2265.

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Jun. 28 2012, 9:52 am

I would use the word "chronology" to describe the historacal track of a series


 

guillermo.mejía

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POSTS: 2852

Report this Jun. 28 2012, 12:02 pm

The word fits...


It's just that with 'chronology' your referring to any liear history of events, without defining which is the one that the characters, in their ficitional world' perceive as the correct one.

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Jun. 28 2012, 12:10 pm

true, but thats why they need to name/number the different universes/timelines/continuities.

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