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Is it wrong to have sex with a holo recreation of someone without their consent?

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Created by: Matthias Russell

Matthias Russell

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Report this Feb. 27 2012, 2:38 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>Ther EMH was sentient was he not. Then the same rules that apply to all sentient people apply to him. He can only have ummm relations with the willing and legal.

>And Zimmerman lost all control over his image when he used it for the EMH. In fact if I were Zimmerman I would be unhappy that holograms in my image were being used for slave-like mine work.

>


If the Doctor is respected as an entity himself, I would agree.  And the Doctor won a case in the seventh season where he was shown to have rights over his holographic material.


If the Doctor has rights over his image, then Lewis Zimmerman has no more rights over that image than an identical twin has of his brother.


I think Zimmerman could have a case against his likeness being used to do dirty jobs, saying his image was used to create a medical program and these other uses are outside the design intent and literally muddy his image.  However, I assume he sold the rights to Starfleet being as all his work was conducted for and funded by Starfleet.


As for the blow-up doll issue someone brought up.  I believe the only ones with likenesses printed on them have adult film entertainers images. These entertainers 1) sold their image for this use and 2) probably negate the ability to say they didn't want their image used in this way by the line of work they are in.


Fleet Admiral Braxton

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Report this Feb. 27 2012, 3:18 pm

Fortunately, You Cannot Knock Up A Holo-Whore.  

Treknoir

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Report this Feb. 27 2012, 3:25 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>The way that TNG, VOY, DS9 had their holodeck up were to reuse programs and to share them. At least thats what I saw on the shows.

>If perhaps illicit sexual fantasies with your senior or junior officers were erased straight away and they never found out then 'no harm done' it would be a way to let of steam or sexual frustration. However could it not encourage you to think that maybe you could do it in 'real life'. Some people might have a difficult time separating fantasy from reality like Barclay did. What if you got that little ensign that you had a 'relationship' on the holodeck with alone in engineering one day?

>In a way I think its better to use a holodeck for your imaginitive fantasies or sexual frustrations rather than force yourself on someone. It would be safer to use one of the standard sexual programs though without involving anyone from real life.

>


Look, deviants or those with warped views are not going to be stopped by lack of access to pixel diddling technology. Just like castration does not necessarily stop rapists/pedohiles from indulging their sick desires.


As someone else pointed out, it's all glorified self-love. It's not real in your head and it's not real in the holodeck.


You have healthy, sexual beings, in close quarters, in the middle of space, for long periods of time. Actual and fake sex will occur. A lot. Saying something is wrong may make you feel good, but what can you actually do to stop it? Either prohibit/block certain programs and options and/or hold violators accountable.


It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

Roddenberry's Disciple

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Report this Feb. 27 2012, 7:06 pm

How would it be wrong? Having sex in the holodeck would be no different from masturbation.  


Barclay Program 9=Too Hot for TV. 


"Star Trek" was, is, and will always be "Star Trek" (as in the original series). "The Next Generation" is a spectacular show that I more or less consider equal to the original, and DS9 is pretty good (albeit far overrated by many). The first 8 movies are fine by me too!

xxplutoxx

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Report this Mar. 01 2012, 12:44 pm

 


back in TNG Jordi made a Holographic Leah Brahms to help him work out some" issues with the engines."  A few episodes later she shows up and gets Enraged.  She fealt violated and malested.. i thought she was gonna make jordi cry.  Actully i think he did cry.

Blueflare

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Report this Mar. 01 2012, 3:07 pm

I'm sure this was discussed on DS9 where they're fairly candid on what the holosuites get used for. There was an episode where someone was trying to get a holo-image of Major Kira, (though presumably the more intimate details would still have been guesswork). Still, she was seriously angry about it but I can't remeber now where it was actually illegal or not. 


I don't think it's morally wrong because it is, essentially, an expression of private thoughts. People think about other people sexually without consent all the time. I imagine that sometimes people with the talent do drawings or write erotica featuring another real person... and I wouldn't say that was wrong. One could therefore argue that a holosuite is just a way more technologically advanced version of the same concept.


That said I would still be vexed if I found out that I was the subject of that kind of holosuite program... eurgh! 

Matthias Russell

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Report this Mar. 02 2012, 7:32 am

But what about a person's rights to and ownership of their own likeness? The morality and legality isn't just about the person acting on the fantasy but the violation of property of a person's own image.


There are copyright and property laws in the future.


konarciq

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Report this Mar. 03 2012, 3:12 am

If I may add my two cents:


I have no moral or legal problem with people using fictional characters for anything on the holodeck (including sex and murder). And fictional characters is a very broad term: I'd include both characters from novels etc, as well as characters from movies and TV shows in that. Because even those are not *real* people: Data does not equal Brent Spiner.


So in present day, I would not have any problem with someone using Data's or Kirk's or Deanna Troi's or Spock's image on the holodeck. (the copyright holders of ST might though...)


But using Brent Spiner or Shatner or Nimoy or Martina Sirtis's image - yes, that's different. That's where I'd draw the line, because whether you know them personally or not - they are real people.


And regarding crewmembers/colleagues/other acquaintances: without their consent, it's absolutely out of the question. I'd even seriously frown at using your very own partner in marriage in that way, though I can imagine it'd provide some necessary consolation after he/she has died.


I must say I'm rather baffled by some of the comments here though regarding the difference between such fantasies for superior or junior officers.


Why would it be more offensive to use your boss in such a holofantasy than using your subordinate in that same fantasy? Why does the boss have more rights as a human being than the subordinate?


If there is nothing wrong with me, then maybe there´s something wrong with the universe? -Dr. Crusher

Matthias Russell

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Report this Mar. 03 2012, 7:00 am

^ I have to differ with you slightly in the case of a marriage partner. In most cases, we would exercise self control when away from our spouse out of fidelity. However, in the case of Tuvok going through pon far in the DQ, I think him using the image of his wife was perfectly acceptable since without sex, he would literally die. In that case, using the image of his wife was a great compromise.


I think we can say the same for ensign Vorik when he was expereincing pon far. Better for him to get out his urges in the holodeck than to attempt rape on his superior officer.


 


Also, in the future, I wouldn't doubt they have remotely controlled holograms so two partners can be light years away and experience intimacy across lightyears by being in holodecks at the same time.


konarciq

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Report this Mar. 04 2012, 8:19 am

Actually, I was referring to humans, not Vulcans


And partners: as with anyone else, as long as they give their consent, I don't see how anyone could stop it. Whether it's morally questionable or not.


The whole discussion does make me wonder about one thing though. I, too, have often fantasized about all the great things you could do on the holodeck. I can easily think of hundreds - but having sex with holographic people doesn't exactly feature prominently in that list. Nor does it seem to play a major part in the show (at least not in TNG).


Who knows - perhaps by the time of TNG, man (read: men ) might have evolved into being a little less horny...


If there is nothing wrong with me, then maybe there´s something wrong with the universe? -Dr. Crusher

carenrose

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Report this Mar. 04 2012, 12:50 pm

I imagine that if you ask the holodeck to recreate someone, it will look in its (the main computer's) database to create an accurate rendition.
If this person is a member of the crew, or perhaps even of Starfleet in general, they likely have medical data and transporter log data and such on hand which includes full-body scan.
Therefore, you can accurately see a person naked which may never allow such a thing if they knew about it.
How much does the starfleet code of conduct and/or federation law disallow "peeping tom" ... ?
How much do these same codes of law protect individual privacy and protect what is done in private in the holodeck from enforcer's eyes?
Considering the military-like structure of starfleet, probably not much...

Cap.Marty.D.Young

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Report this May. 19 2012, 1:58 pm

Morally wrong, perhaps. Legally, that depends on if the person in question has given consent to be presented as a hologram. In the case of celebrity holograms, they KNOW people at home will be having sex with them, therefore they will recieve TONS of compensation up front for allowing their image for holographic use. In the case of private parties, I believe that would vary by the person, and would be far more difficult to regulate. Perhaps a person could prevent this in their settings, like locking the adult channel from the kids. 


Never drink with your enemies! Well, maybe just one round...

RStar17

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Report this May. 19 2012, 2:40 pm

I'm sure if we ever invent holodecks in our world, we just basicly invented a new reason to backup the courts even more with lawsuits many frivilious, some not.


I believe the way the law reads now is that historical figures and celebrities are fair game in writing however. Seems that would carry over to holodecks.


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