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Is it wrong to have sex with a holo recreation of someone without their consent?

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Created by: Matthias Russell

Matthias Russell

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Report this Feb. 22 2012, 5:06 pm

Holedecks and holosuites are commonly used as the 24th century equivalent of pornography or brothel.  At times, individuals have gone a step further and used the technology to have sexual encounters with holographic recreations of living individuals who would not consent to doing such things in person.


Is this wrong and/or offensive?  How would you feel if you found out your image was being used in this way on a holodeck?


Please try to be mature and keep comments to PG-13-type standards.

tribblenator999

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Report this Feb. 22 2012, 5:48 pm

it's a hologram it's not real.

Matthias Russell

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Report this Feb. 22 2012, 7:00 pm

Quote: tribblenator999 @ Feb. 22 2012, 5:48 pm

>

>it's a hologram it's not real.

>


If it were that simple, what's wrong with taking nude or erotic pictures of people through their windows?  Those pictures "aren't real".


Reedworftripparis

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Report this Feb. 22 2012, 7:21 pm

In the case of Tuvok, he used a hologram of his wife when he went into Pon Farr. In that case because of where he was and he didn't want to cheat on his wife, I think that was OK. 


Maybe and this is a HUGE MAYBE, using Voyager again, if they wanted to stay "connected" with their loved ones I think I would give them a pass just because of their unique circumstance.


As for everyone else, I think it is wrong. It's one thing to fantasize about someone you like be it celebrity or a person you know. But to use a holo recreation of that person, it crosses the line. Look at  how Geordi got all mixed up when he needed the hologram of Leah Brahms. When he met her, he was a little screwed up about it and was trying to take it to another level when she was not interested, the hologram was because it was set to his pleasing. Geordi has a good head on his shoulders, imagine if he hadn't what could have happened when he met the real woman. 


If you are using fictional characters from a book that was not made into a movie and you have made up a likeness of the person then I'd go for that as saying that's OK. 


I think once you get into the area of using an actual person, you have crossed a line. A very dangerous line.


"Reed Alert, that's not bad"...Malcolm Reed

CaptainBobApril

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Report this Feb. 22 2012, 8:24 pm

If it's a real historical figure or a celebrity who likely isn't going to find out, sure, go for it, make sure to clean up after yourself.


If it's a fellow crewmember (especially if it's a superior officer), then welcome to the impassible minefield, population YOU.  It's one thing to conjure up a holographic sex toy in the form of Eccentrica Gallumbits, the triple-breasted whore of Eroticon Six, because you probably won't have to run into her in the corridor anytime in the foreseeable future.  Counselor Troi, on the other hand, will most definitely NOT be amused by her being used as the model for the Goddess of Eternal Empathy, complete with diaphanous gown gently blowing in the breeze.


I know which one I'D rather try and explain to the captain the next morning.


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OtakuJo

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Report this Feb. 22 2012, 10:28 pm

I would think of it as a form of violation -- regardless of whether they actually know or not. I don't know that there are any laws against it. But the only way I can see for such a thing to be acceptable is if either, a) you have that person's permission; or b) the person whose image you are using does not actually exist. That includes famous people.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

guillermo.mejía

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Report this Feb. 23 2012, 6:38 am

I think it's more of a morality issue, where the only one you'd have to answer to is yourself. Now use the image of someone on the same ship, and you're playing with fire.


"Aye. And if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon." - Scotty, The Miracle Worker since 2265.

Domo Arigato Mr. Mugato

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Report this Feb. 23 2012, 8:37 am

Quote: CaptainBobApril @ Feb. 22 2012, 8:24 pm

>If it's a real historical figure or a celebrity who likely isn't going to find out, sure, go for it, make sure to clean up after yourself.

>If it's a fellow crewmember (especially if it's a superior officer), then welcome to the impassible minefield, population YOU.  It's one thing to conjure up a holographic sex toy in the form of  Eccentrica Gallumbits, the triple-breasted whore of Eroticon Six, because you probably won't have to run into her in the corridor anytime in the foreseeable future.  Counselor Troi, on the other hand, will most definitely NOT be amused by her being used as the model for the Goddess of Eternal Empathy, complete with diaphanous gown gently blowing in the breeze.

>I know which one I'D rather try and explain to the captain the next morning.


 


This.


"Your knowledge of scientific biological transmogrification is only outmatched by your zest for kung Fu treachery!" --Black Dynamite

CaptainBobApril

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Report this Feb. 23 2012, 11:44 am

I'd like to think that the holodeck would be capable of removing any, um, stray organic material that's left behind (remember, the holodeck doesn't just use holography; there's also replicator stuff going on in there, so you can bring back a souvenier from that holographic trip to Tahiti, or a drawing of the Enterprise that Professor Moriarty just drew up for you).

Treknoir

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Report this Feb. 23 2012, 12:00 pm

I think the real question is just how much privacy is allowed in the use of these machines? Especially on official government property. We can talk about violation and ethics, but IRL there is nothing stopping anyone from having "relations" with any individual, animal, or thing in their minds. For arguments sake, let's say that the devices are programmed with certain boundaries in place (no illegal acts, sex with minors, etc.). If holo use isn't monitored, what's going to stop users from doing whatever they want within the confines of the programming? And if holo use is monitored, eewwwwwww. I feel bad for the guy/gal. Unless they're into that. LOL But seriously, if no one will find out, including the object of the users "affection", then is it really a violation?


I mean, is Officer Ricky gonna walk up to Troi and tell her, "wow, I just got finished (bleeping) your (bleep) to (bleeping) shreds and then (bleeped) your (bleep) until I couldn't see straight! Woo! Good times."


It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

Broadstorm

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Report this Feb. 23 2012, 4:35 pm

What about if it is a simulation of someone you are in a relationship with that doesn't do certain things? 

Reedworftripparis

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Report this Feb. 23 2012, 5:49 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>hm I think our brains are like computers.  In that sense, daydreaming about having sex with a person without their persmission is similar to having sex with a person on a computer simulation without their concent.  So if it's okay to fantasize about other people, then it's okay to do this.

>


Daydreaming is just that dreaming. In the holodeck even though it is fantasy, you have created something that looks just like the person, you can touch it, program it for certain responses. That's the difference to me anyway. Dreaming or fantasizing is one thing, it is in your own mind but once you get into the holodeck aspect it changes...for me anyway

xXLadyDataXx

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Report this Feb. 23 2012, 8:21 pm

I honestly think it's morally wrong because it is violating someone that you like without their permission which would be considered rape and it's fake/unatural.


OtakuJo

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Report this Feb. 23 2012, 10:28 pm

Quote: Reedworftripparis @ Feb. 23 2012, 5:49 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>

>hm I think our brains are like computers.  In that sense, daydreaming about having sex with a person without their persmission is similar to having sex with a person on a computer simulation without their concent.  So if it's okay to fantasize about other people, then it's okay to do this.

>

Daydreaming is just that dreaming. In the holodeck even though it is fantasy, you have created something that looks just like the person, you can touch it, program it for certain responses. That's the difference to me anyway. Dreaming or fantasizing is one thing, it is in your own mind but once you get into the holodeck aspect it changes...for me anyway


Daydreaming is one thing -- carrying out those daydreams is quite another. The holodeck / holosuite produces a version of physical "reality", and therefore it is crossing a line that is well past simple daydreams. I would liken it more to the (quite bizarre) world of real person fanfic, which places real life people in often compromising positions, and for which they can and occasionally do (rightly) sue.


This is similarly reflected in the Star Trek universe: Characters such as Troi, Brahms, and Kira react with disgust and / or outrage at the idea of others using their images to play out holosuite fantasies. Daydreams remain private (for the most part, and it is understandable). But the aforementioned characters are, in my opinion, entirely justified in their reactions to such potential objectification -- and essentially, violation, of their own images.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

OtakuJo

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Report this Feb. 23 2012, 10:33 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>

>I would think of it as a form of violation -- regardless of whether they actually know or not. I don't know that there are any laws against it. But the only way I can see for such a thing to be acceptable is if either, a) you have that person's permission; or b) the person whose image you are using does not actually exist. That includes famous people.

>

So what about Brad Pitt. He'd been dead for 200 years. Would it be OK to use his image? I mean he wouldn't know, nor would anyone who knew him. I suppose it would still be creepy. OK even if you had a holodeck creation like Minuet its still a bit creepy, depending on what you do of course.


Thinking about it in terms of someone else who has been dead for 200 years (300 I think though -- not many holosuites until TNG.) I still think that a sexual programme would be icky and generally not acceptable. You know, for example that many real life characters have had cameos in Star Trek -- and I don't find this to be a problem, because the representation of such historical figures is still respectful of their personal integrity. Generally speaking, pornographic fantasies are not.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

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