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Would you dedicate your political activity to creating a real future like STAR TREK?

dfgrbac

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POSTS: 102

Report this Feb. 25 2012, 2:36 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>I wouldnt know where to start in trying to create such a future. First I think we must all agree exactly what the political system is on trek. I think trek earth is a scocalist system with eliments of capitalism ( I may be wrong) Beyond all of that I guess humanity must truly respect all human life regardless of belief or race or whatever. Then perhaps we can wipe out poverty and disparity(I think this is what we all want) I guess the highly advanced tech would help to stop starvation too

And Mathias Russell said:

The UFP is a socialist republic. I don't believe capitalism exists inside the UFP. They have currency and income but it is not a profit motivated society.


Forget the standards of government we think we know.  We need to invent something new that will give us a bright future - like STAR TREK, but possibly not exact.  Money was never mentioned in UFB life on the programs, unless it was a fall back to our times.  I remember once when Captain Pickard said, "Are you buying?"  But that may have been in jest.


To understand my meaning, take a look at the video shown in this post I made at my new site.  It discusses one idea for a future society.


 


Don Grbac

padracin

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POSTS: 325

Report this Feb. 25 2012, 4:59 pm

Frankly, I don't think enough information is provided to know what political/economic system is in play in the Federation.  And of course, nothing implies that the whole Federation follows the same system. 


The main action centers around a military organization - StarFleet.  There are excursions to new colonies, societies outside the Federation, scientific stations, but precious little to explain the organizing principles of the member worlds of the Federation.  Other than the expectation that they have some sort of representative governments and trafficking in persons is prohibited.


Obviously the promenade on DS9 represents a free market.  The Credit system may simply be an extrapolation of present day credit cards - or a common currency like the Euro.

dale1975

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POSTS: 5

Report this Feb. 26 2012, 12:39 am

If I thought it were possible, I would. Greed is to prevalent today. The top 1% would not allow, greed to be dissolved, if it were there wealth would be worthless. The thought of hunger, poverty and such being a distant memory as Picard told us, would be euphoric. The thought that man would live his life, for the betterment of ones self or society, does sound appealing. We should run Picard or Janeway for president.LOL. Can you imagine Jan Brewer shaking her finger at one of them. Picard would have probably quoted Churhill and told her, "How ugly she would still be." Janeway would have tried diplomacy, but I doubt that would have worked so she probably would have stomped her a**. 


 


Picard Janeway 2012


GOD ! please bring back a series or 2...

chr33355

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1551

Report this Feb. 26 2012, 4:03 am

Quote: dale1975 @ Feb. 26 2012, 12:39 am

>

>If I thought it were possible, I would. Greed is to prevalent today. The top 1% would not allow, greed to be dissolved, if it were there wealth would be worthless. The thought of hunger, poverty and such being a distant memory as Picard told us, would be euphoric. The thought that man would live his life, for the betterment of ones self or society, does sound appealing. We should run Picard or Janeway for president.LOL. Can you imagine Jan Brewer shaking her finger at one of them. Picard would have probably quoted Churhill and told her, "How ugly she would still be." Janeway would have tried diplomacy, but I doubt that would have worked so she probably would have stomped her a**. 

>Picard Janeway 2012

>
 Don't be stupid the OWS wont let greed die down as they want other people (1%) to pay for all their stuff for the sole reason that the 1% have more stuff than them if that isn't greed then I don't know what greed is.


caltrek2

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POSTS: 2654

Report this Feb. 26 2012, 5:07 am

Quote: chr33355 @ Feb. 26 2012, 4:03 am

Quote: dale1975 @ Feb. 26 2012, 12:39 am

>

>

>If I thought it were possible, I would. Greed is to prevalent today. The top 1% would not allow, greed to be dissolved, if it were there wealth would be worthless. The thought of hunger, poverty and such being a distant memory as Picard told us, would be euphoric. The thought that man would live his life, for the betterment of ones self or society, does sound appealing. We should run Picard or Janeway for president.LOL. Can you imagine Jan Brewer shaking her finger at one of them. Picard would have probably quoted Churhill and told her, "How ugly she would still be." Janeway would have tried diplomacy, but I doubt that would have worked so she probably would have stomped her a**. 

>Picard Janeway 2012

>
 Don't be stupid the OWS wont let greed die down as they want other people (1%) to pay for all their stuff for the sole reason that the 1% have more stuff than them if that isn't greed then I don't know what greed is.


1) There are elements of "greed" on both sides.


2) You cannot legislate greed out of existence.


3) The best of the OWS crowd are into empowerment. That is why there is such a collision between them and many in the power elite. The power elite already have power. Many don't want to give it up. Many in the OWS crowd are saying "look we played by the rules, and got kicked in the teeth for it. So we are going to take steps to our own empowerment".


 


As Americans, we sometimes suffer from too much pluribus and not enough unum. - Arthur Schelsinger, Jr.

chr33355

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POSTS: 1551

Report this Feb. 26 2012, 6:24 am

Quote: caltrek2 @ Feb. 26 2012, 5:07 am

Quote: chr33355 @ Feb. 26 2012, 4:03 am

Quote: dale1975 @ Feb. 26 2012, 12:39 am

>

>

>

>If I thought it were possible, I would. Greed is to prevalent today. The top 1% would not allow, greed to be dissolved, if it were there wealth would be worthless. The thought of hunger, poverty and such being a distant memory as Picard told us, would be euphoric. The thought that man would live his life, for the betterment of ones self or society, does sound appealing. We should run Picard or Janeway for president.LOL. Can you imagine Jan Brewer shaking her finger at one of them. Picard would have probably quoted Churhill and told her, "How ugly she would still be." Janeway would have tried diplomacy, but I doubt that would have worked so she probably would have stomped her a**. 

>Picard Janeway 2012

>
 Don't be stupid the OWS wont let greed die down as they want other people (1%) to pay for all their stuff for the sole reason that the 1% have more stuff than them if that isn't greed then I don't know what greed is.

1) There are elements of "greed" on both sides.

2) You cannot legislate greed out of existence.

3) The best of the OWS crowd are into empowerment. That is why there is such a collision between them and many in the power elite. The power elite already have power. Many don't want to give it up. Many in the OWS crowd are saying "look we played by the rules, and got kicked in the teeth for it. So we are going to take steps to our own empowerment".

 

 Bah the OWS crowd was already empowered they just didn't understand how because the keys to sucess are no longer taught.


caltrek2

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POSTS: 2654

Report this Feb. 26 2012, 7:13 am

Quote: chr33355 @ Feb. 26 2012, 6:24 am

Quote: caltrek2 @ Feb. 26 2012, 5:07 am

Quote: chr33355 @ Feb. 26 2012, 4:03 am

Quote: dale1975 @ Feb. 26 2012, 12:39 am

>

>

>

>

>If I thought it were possible, I would. Greed is to prevalent today. The top 1% would not allow, greed to be dissolved, if it were there wealth would be worthless. The thought of hunger, poverty and such being a distant memory as Picard told us, would be euphoric. The thought that man would live his life, for the betterment of ones self or society, does sound appealing. We should run Picard or Janeway for president.LOL. Can you imagine Jan Brewer shaking her finger at one of them. Picard would have probably quoted Churhill and told her, "How ugly she would still be." Janeway would have tried diplomacy, but I doubt that would have worked so she probably would have stomped her a**. 

>Picard Janeway 2012

>
 Don't be stupid the OWS wont let greed die down as they want other people (1%) to pay for all their stuff for the sole reason that the 1% have more stuff than them if that isn't greed then I don't know what greed is.

1) There are elements of "greed" on both sides.

2) You cannot legislate greed out of existence.

3) The best of the OWS crowd are into empowerment. That is why there is such a collision between them and many in the power elite. The power elite already have power. Many don't want to give it up. Many in the OWS crowd are saying "look we played by the rules, and got kicked in the teeth for it. So we are going to take steps to our own empowerment".

 

 Bah the OWS crowd was already empowered they just didn't understand how because the keys to sucess are no longer taught.


...and why are they no longer taught?


Perhaps because the power elite was burning their bridges behind them making sure no outsiders colud follow. How else to ensure their place in power?


As Americans, we sometimes suffer from too much pluribus and not enough unum. - Arthur Schelsinger, Jr.

chr33355

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1551

Report this Feb. 26 2012, 7:33 am

Quote: caltrek2 @ Feb. 26 2012, 7:13 am

Quote: chr33355 @ Feb. 26 2012, 6:24 am

Quote: caltrek2 @ Feb. 26 2012, 5:07 am

Quote: chr33355 @ Feb. 26 2012, 4:03 am

Quote: dale1975 @ Feb. 26 2012, 12:39 am

>

>

>

>

>

>If I thought it were possible, I would. Greed is to prevalent today. The top 1% would not allow, greed to be dissolved, if it were there wealth would be worthless. The thought of hunger, poverty and such being a distant memory as Picard told us, would be euphoric. The thought that man would live his life, for the betterment of ones self or society, does sound appealing. We should run Picard or Janeway for president.LOL. Can you imagine Jan Brewer shaking her finger at one of them. Picard would have probably quoted Churhill and told her, "How ugly she would still be." Janeway would have tried diplomacy, but I doubt that would have worked so she probably would have stomped her a**. 

>Picard Janeway 2012

>
 Don't be stupid the OWS wont let greed die down as they want other people (1%) to pay for all their stuff for the sole reason that the 1% have more stuff than them if that isn't greed then I don't know what greed is.

1) There are elements of "greed" on both sides.

2) You cannot legislate greed out of existence.

3) The best of the OWS crowd are into empowerment. That is why there is such a collision between them and many in the power elite. The power elite already have power. Many don't want to give it up. Many in the OWS crowd are saying "look we played by the rules, and got kicked in the teeth for it. So we are going to take steps to our own empowerment".

 

 Bah the OWS crowd was already empowered they just didn't understand how because the keys to sucess are no longer taught.

...and why are they no longer taught?

Perhaps because the power elite was burning their bridges behind them making sure no outsiders colud follow. How else to ensure their place in power?

 We let government run the schools teaching people not to be self reliant anymore.


caltrek2

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POSTS: 2654

Report this Feb. 26 2012, 12:19 pm


Oh you mean like the state government of Arizona:


http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/765353/the_real_goal_of_ariz.%E2%80%99s_book_banning_thought_police%3A_harass_latinos/


On Jan. 1, Arizona’s ban on the Mexican American Studies curriculum used in Tucson high schools went into effect. The weeks since have been marked by confusion and backtracking as the district leaders and teachers scramble to comply with the state law. The fight is far from over, though, with a federal lawsuit pending and ongoing organizing taking place.


Initially, the Tucson Unified School District Board of Education seemed poised to refuse compliance. But it quickly caved when State Superintendent John Huppenthal, who thought up this whole thing, slapped the district with a $4.9 million penalty by cutting its state funding retroactively to last August.


How do you get rid of a program that has, by all educational standards, been successful for more than a decade? Apparently, the first step is to strip that curriculum of the material that gives it heft. This week, the district began removing seven books from MAS classrooms, which were boxed up and stored in a warehouse where books go to die. That list includes “Occupied America: A History of Chicanos,” Paulo Freire’s “Pedagogy of the Oppressed,” “Rethinking Columbus,” “Critical Race Theory,” Shakespeare’s “The Tempest” and “Chicano!: the History of the Mexican American Civil Rights Movement.”


The removal is to be thorough—teachers are not allowed to keep even personal copies of these books in their classrooms. Students and teachers described their fear and heartbreak at an emotional community meeting over the past weekend.


It isn’t just the books but also the context in which they are being taught that is problematic for the district. As the list has made its way around the country, the district immediately objected to accusations of banning books. In a statement, the district said that it had not banned the books, but simply removed them from classes that had been banned. The books could still be found in other classrooms across the district, and in its libraries.


Jeff Biggers, who has done excellent, consistent journalism on this issue, reported the following availability: two copies of “Pedagogy of the Oppressed,” one copy of “Critical Race Theory” in the online catalog and of 16 in-district copies of “Rethinking Columbus,” none are in Tucson High School, the home of the Mexican American Studies curriculum. So these books can still be read and taught, says the district, just not in the context of Mexican American Studies and racial politics.


That is the problem, for instance, with “The Tempest,” Shakespeare’s play about colonialism and slavery. Teacher Curtis Acosta, who designed much of the banned curriculum and led its implementation, recorded a meeting with district administrators last Wednesday. Everyone is clearly confused, and trying to protect the district. So administrators tell Acosta in the meeting that it would be best not to teach “The Tempest” using the “nexus of race, class and oppression” or “issues of critical race theory.”


In an interview with Biggers, Acosta notes that he was told to avoid texts and lessons with race or oppression as central themes. He further notes that there may be penalties if students independently address these themes: “We also have not received confirmation that the ideas, dialogue, and class work of our students will be protected…. if I avoid discussing such themes in class, yet the students see the themes and decide to write, discuss or ask questions in class, we may also be found to be in violation.”


Three things strike me about this situation.


First, I’m impressed with the rigor of this curriculum. I have read most of these books, and the “Critical Race Theory” anthology is challenging even for me, with 25 years of such theory and a lot of practice under my belt. No wonder this program raised grades and graduation rates so successfully.


Second, I think of books as living entities that come alive when a reader engages them. It hurts me to think of lonely books stuck in storage.


Finally, and most importantly, I understand that in this process, the state and the district will come up with all kinds of maneuvers to replace this curriculum against the will of the teachers, administrators, students and parents who have benefitted in myriad ways from its existence. The powers that be will constantly make and unmake regulations because there is no easy way to do this. All that inconsistency will make no difference to the Hornes and Huppenthals and Brewers who put it in place, because their objective has already been met—to put the Mexican American community on the defensive by reinforcing its un-American image, and to prevent any progressive discussion of racial politics in the state. They aren’t opposed to racial politics, just to a brand that counters their own.


When I was in Tucson last fall with the CultureStrike delegation, I toured historic South Tucson with Salomon Baldenegro, a local civil rights hero who is featured in “Chicano!”. Baldenegro, now in his 60s, told us he was an early reader and fluent English speaker, but when he started school, all kids of Mexican descent, no matter how deep their roots in Arizona, were put into Americanization programs where they “learned” English and American games. When Baldenegro’s mom registered him for school, the principal tested his reading. The little boy read out loud a book for first graders, then one for second graders and then one for third graders. The principal accused him of having memorized all the books and refused to put him in the proper class for his level. Some 60 years later, the state of Arizona, having had to desegregate its schools, has come up with a new way to Americanize Mexican Americans.


The state will fail, just as they did with Baldenegro’s generation. Tucson activists, while understandably angry and disappointed, project an optimism that we often don’t expect from people who have been so put upon for so long, and they are far from giving up. But they can’t protect their right to knowledge alone. The rest of us need to back them up, by following their fight, by talking to our own friends and neighbors about it, and by taking action when we are asked.


chr33355

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POSTS: 1551

Report this Feb. 26 2012, 12:45 pm

No Mexican American studies has nothing to do with self reliance.

dfgrbac

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Report this Feb. 26 2012, 1:13 pm

 


Frankly, I wasn't a DS9 fan. I watched eagerly the first episodes as I have done for all TREK shows, but I got tired of constantly sitting on life upon DS9. As for padracin's comment about DS9's promenade, I can't comment since I didn't watch it that much and didn't notice. Anyway, the specifics of economics in the TREK universe are irrelevant to my actual question. What I am trying to get at is developing such a future in our real world. If our politics are done right – and all major economic policy decisions are political – a picture of our actual future will look very much like the society in STAR TREK. It won't look like “Transformers” or “Terminator”, etc. And I believe agreement and cooperation (like on STAR TREK) is possible among the people to make good things happen – provided the people are fully informed. Check out this study: Constructive Dialog. Again it comes down to good education for everyone.


To dale1975, greed is a consequence of money, mostly. Without money where the bounty of production is available to everyone, greed is gone. In a well organized society, production will be integrated with demand. If someone needs something, it will be made. If a resource becomes scarce, alternates will be discovered or invented.


Caltrek2 says, “You cannot legislate greed out of existence.” That's true as long as money exists; money makes us think a more expensive product is better (sometimes true, and sometimes not), so it's better to have more money. But in a moneyless economy, cheaper (meaning inferior) products would not be made. Everything would be top quality! Everyone would live high, not just the 1%. [How do you suppose they built all those huge starships?] Caltrek2 is also right that the OWS crowd wants to empower the people to overcome our broken political system. I do too. That's why I encourage people to vote for the National Initiative, and promote it.


Chr33355 says, “We let government run the schools teaching people not to be self reliant anymore.” Schools teaching people not to be self-reliant – come on! Okay, some schools may be bad due to insufficient funds. The result is poor teachers and lack of materials. Do you know many teachers have to buy the supplies for their classes out of their own funds. I think this is outrageous!


And Caltrek2 says, “Finally, and most importantly, I understand that in this process, the state and the district will come up with all kinds of maneuvers to replace this curriculum against the will of the teachers, administrators, students and parents who have benefited in myriad ways from its existence. The powers that be will constantly make and unmake regulations because there is no easy way to do this.” And there you have an example of why the two-party system is a failure. The two elite camps should not decide these things. The people should decide. The majority would do what is best for the children.


Don Grbac

caltrek2

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POSTS: 2654

Report this Feb. 26 2012, 1:16 pm

Hey, before the Americans invaded, the southwest was mostly filled with self-reliant Mexicans. Just a couple of weeks ago you guys were moaning and complaining about how the welfare system fosters dependency. But hey, try and actually teach people how that welfare system came about and suddenly their ethnic heritage has nothing to do with self-reliance.


 


So many of you guys were also complaining about how Hispanics needed to learn to read English. Now we see a class where Shakespeare’s The Tempest was being taught, and suddenly it is on the banned book list. I guess learning how to read and write English has nothing to do with self-reliance after all.



Edit: This was in response to chr's comments.


As Americans, we sometimes suffer from too much pluribus and not enough unum. - Arthur Schelsinger, Jr.

chr33355

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Report this Feb. 26 2012, 1:47 pm

Wrong Reading shakespeare has nothing to do with self reliance

chr33355

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Report this Feb. 26 2012, 1:52 pm

Self reliance means critical thinking, basic finances, and basic long term planning skills.  These are not taught in schools any more.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Feb. 26 2012, 2:05 pm

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Feb. 25 2012, 12:33 pm

Quote: TNG=culture @ Feb. 25 2012, 11:13 am

>

>Matthias Russell typed:

>Hmm, maybe we could get a serious space program again.

yes, the number one need, beyond the basic human needs.

>
You jest but it is true. One stray asteroid or ecological disaster is all it takes to destroy humanity, daVinci, Shakespeare, democracy. All of it. If you want human society to survive then you should want a space program so man can learn to colonize other worlds. The space program isn't just a way to flaunt technological and financial prowess. It is about preserving our species and culture. Unfortunately, too many politicians and voters are too short sighted or stupid to realize this.
Yep - remember in Babylon 5 when the station commmander was asked if they should all just go back to Earth?  His response was great:


"No. We have to stay here and there's a simple reason why. Ask ten different scientists about the environment, population control, genetics and you'll get ten different answers, but there's one thing every scientist on the planet agrees on. Whether it happens in a hundred years or a thousand years or a million years, eventually our Sun will grow cold and go out. When that happens, it won't just take us. It'll take Marilyn Monroe and Lao-Tzu, Einstein, Morobuto, Buddy Holly, Aristophanes .. and all of this .. all of this was for nothing unless we go to the stars."


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