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Would you dedicate your political activity to creating a real future like STAR TREK?

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Feb. 24 2012, 10:17 am

Quote: dfgrbac @ Feb. 24 2012, 7:49 am

>That is really good to hear!

>May I ask, what are your activities on this?
One of the things I do is help educate people on the foundations of this country.  With schools ignoring or flat out lying about what our founders did and who they are, it's amazing what happens when I show people texts written by our founders.


See, so many people don't understand why the USA was even created and have no national pride - they're just dead inside.  So I am working with people to start getting people wanting to learn about our history and why we should be proud.  I also challenge people to understand that not only do they have natural rights, but also responsibilites.


People have been lied to for decades - that we should be dependent on government for everything and we should just do what our government dictates, but when I show people our history and how it applies today and how they can change things, some of them get excited.  See, it's not the White House that has the answers, it's my house and their house and your house.


And after they start understanding things and start internalizing what it means to be citizen of the US (not just someone who lives here,) they can go out and make a difference to their familiies and communities.


 


It's kind of like going back to the Boy Scouts and earning the "Citizenship in the Nation" merit badge.



dfgrbac

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Report this Feb. 24 2012, 11:06 am

Quote: caltrek2 @ Feb. 24 2012, 8:35 am

>

>Part of the problem is agreeing on what it is we need to work for, and how we go about achieving the desired ends.

>At 90,000 feet it is easy to say and agree that humans are essentially noble creatures and that they should be free and treated with dignity.

>On the ground we are constatly fighting and arguing each other about what that means and about how we can achieve such lofty goals.  In doing so, we often negate that which we first sought to achieve.

>


And why is that, that we constantly fight instead of working things out?


I think this is because of massive misunderstanding due to all the misinformation we are constantly exposed to by the major media.  Today's media is controlled by very few but powerful companies that make sure the people don't get any information that would undermine their corporate agendas.


The only cure to this is for the people to get upset enough to start doing their own research and to detect what are lies and truth.


Don Grbac

dfgrbac

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Report this Feb. 24 2012, 11:26 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Feb. 24 2012, 10:17 am

Quote: dfgrbac @ Feb. 24 2012, 7:49 am

>

>That is really good to hear!

>May I ask, what are your activities on this?
One of the things I do is help educate people on the foundations of this country.  With schools ignoring or flat out lying about what our founders did and who they are, it's amazing what happens when I show people texts written by our founders.

See, so many people don't understand why the USA was even created and have no national pride - they're just dead inside.  So I am working with people to start getting people wanting to learn about our history and why we should be proud.  I also challenge people to understand that not only do they have natural rights, but also responsibilites.

People have been lied to for decades - that we should be dependent on government for everything and we should just do what our government dictates, but when I show people our history and how it applies today and how they can change things, some of them get excited.  See, it's not the White House that has the answers, it's my house and their house and your house.

...


It's great to hear you're active politically!  And I am with you right on down to your last paragraph above.  I think you are referring to our educational system.  We are being lied to - by our media, but not by our schools.  But schools may start lieing also soon.  I see efforts being done to dismiss science and to start teaching creationism as if it was the result of scientific inquiry.


And no school I'm aware of has ever thought students "that we should be dependent on government for everything and we should just do what our government dictates"!  That statement is a product of the corporate propaganda machine with the intent of polarizing the population.  And it's working.


Don Grbac

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Feb. 24 2012, 11:45 am

Quote: dfgrbac @ Feb. 24 2012, 11:26 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Feb. 24 2012, 10:17 am

Quote: dfgrbac @ Feb. 24 2012, 7:49 am

>

>

>That is really good to hear!

>May I ask, what are your activities on this?
One of the things I do is help educate people on the foundations of this country.  With schools ignoring or flat out lying about what our founders did and who they are, it's amazing what happens when I show people texts written by our founders.

See, so many people don't understand why the USA was even created and have no national pride - they're just dead inside.  So I am working with people to start getting people wanting to learn about our history and why we should be proud.  I also challenge people to understand that not only do they have natural rights, but also responsibilites.

People have been lied to for decades - that we should be dependent on government for everything and we should just do what our government dictates, but when I show people our history and how it applies today and how they can change things, some of them get excited.  See, it's not the White House that has the answers, it's my house and their house and your house.

...

It's great to hear you're active politically!  And I am with you right on down to your last paragraph above.  I think you are referring to our educational system.  We are being lied to - by our media, but not by our schools.  But schools may start lieing also soon.  I see efforts being done to dismiss science and to start teaching creationism as if it was the result of scientific inquiry.

And no school I'm aware of has ever thought students "that we should be dependent on government for everything and we should just do what our government dictates"!  That statement is a product of the corporate propaganda machine with the intent of polarizing the population.  And it's working.

You really should see what our "gubmunt edewkayshun & indocktrunayshun cystduuhhmm" is brainwashing our kids with.  They lie to the kids about what the founders actually did and fought for.  They tell the kids that most of the founders were athiests or deists.  They lie about what the 3/5th's clause is all about.  I've even seen materials by schools saying that the Founding Fathers were socialsts.  (I could go on and on and on as parents bring me materials from their kid's schools.)


I've even had a conversation with a high school civics teacher (who crashed one of my lessons) about the "separation of church and state" myth - something he said was specifically in the US Constitution....  I gave him a copy of the Constitution and challenged him to point it out.  When he couldn't find it, he said that the Constitution I handed him was "revised."  I then told him to use one of the computers and pull it up off the internet and prove me wrong.  (Of course, most everyone else in the class was laughing because I had already provided the backstory on where it really came from.)


And yes, the school system pushes the agenda the government is supreme and can do anything it wants.  This is why schools provide abortions and condoms to kids without parental concent or knowledge.  This is why schools are taking away bagged lunches from kids.  This is why schools are forcing vaccines on students even though parents said not to.  This is why schools teach that the government will take care of citizens (entitlement)....They set people's expectation that government is there to provide because schools provide "free" books and rides to school and lunches, etc.   Schools are even teaching kids how to protest (OWS) and pushing the Democratic agenda and even have kids singing praise songs to Obama and at the same time expelling kids for praying.


 


See..... some of us have been studying the original documents for so long that we see the differences quite clearly between what the Founding Fathers said and what the "gubmunt edewkayshun & indocktrunayshun cystduuhhmm" is telling the kids.  If you had read a book and then read a review of that book and knew that review was completely wrong because you've read the book, you could say something.... But if you hadn't actually read the book, then you wouldn't know that the book review was wrong.  Kids aren't being told to read the original texts - only books that summarize / revise history... and the kids don't know the difference.  This is why most kids (and now adults) can't pass a simple citizenship test.


dfgrbac

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Report this Feb. 24 2012, 1:26 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Feb. 24 2012, 11:45 am

>

>You really should see what our "gubmunt edewkayshun & indocktrunayshun cystduuhhmm" is brainwashing our kids with.  They lie to the kids about what the founders actually did and fought for.  They tell the kids that most of the founders were athiests or deists.  They lie about what the 3/5th's clause is all about.  I've even seen materials by schools saying that the Founding Fathers were socialsts.  (I could go on and on and on as parents bring me materials from their kid's schools.)

>I've even had a conversation with a high school civics teacher (who crashed one of my lessons) about the "separation of church and state" myth - something he said was specifically in the US Constitution....  I gave him a copy of the Constitution and challenged him to point it out.  When he couldn't find it, he said that the Constitution I handed him was "revised."  I then told him to use one of the computers and pull it up off the internet and prove me wrong.  (Of course, most everyone else in the class was laughing because I had already provided the backstory on where it really came from.)

>And yes, the school system pushes the agenda the government is supreme and can do anything it wants.  This is why schools provide abortions and condoms to kids without parental concent or knowledge.  This is why schools are taking away bagged lunches from kids.  This is why schools are forcing vaccines on students even though parents said not to.  This is why schools teach that the government will take care of citizens (entitlement)....They set people's expectation that government is there to provide because schools provide "free" books and rides to school and lunches, etc.   Schools are even teaching kids how to protest (OWS) and pushing the Democratic agenda and even have kids singing praise songs to Obama and at the same time expelling kids for praying.

>See..... some of us have been studying the original documents for so long that we see the differences quite clearly between what the Founding Fathers said and what the "gubmunt edewkayshun & indocktrunayshun cystduuhhmm" is telling the kids.  If you had read a book and then read a review of that book and knew that review was completely wrong because you've read the book, you could say something.... But if you hadn't actually read the book, then you wouldn't know that the book review was wrong.  Kids aren't being told to read the original texts - only books that summarize / revise history... and the kids don't know the difference.  This is why most kids (and now adults) can't pass a simple citizenship test.

>


 


The Founding Fathers certainly were not socialists, but they did want to reserve power to the people and not give away the whole store to government leaders for fear they would be creating another version of what they were trying to break away from. The 9th and 10th Amendments guarantee we, the people, can change government any way we wish if we see the need.


As for the religious views of the Founders and the impact on government, The Economist magazine recently published a well researched article.


The faith (and doubts) of our fathers


In it, they discuss the separation of church and state.


On the face of things, the victory for religious liberty, first in Virginia and then in the American republic, was so decisive that no venerator of the founders could plausibly challenge it. Yet Mr Barton, the advocate-in-chief of Christian history, has raised his standard over that very issue. The argument centres on a famous phrase of Jefferson’s, cherished by secularists, which calls for a “wall of separation” between church and state. Jefferson used that formula in a letter to some Baptists who asked him what exactly the constitution’s framers had meant when outlawing the establishment of a state religion. Mr Barton’s line is that the “wall” works only one way, as does the constitution’s ban on a state religion. This principle does not, he says, exclude governance by Christian principles; all it bars is state interference in church life or theology. This argument has been adopted by many other Christian conservatives since he first made it 20 years ago. (A minority of evangelicals take a different view; they think the founding fathers were indeed hopeless freethinkers, and conclude that good Christians should avoid politics. But that is a hard corner to argue.)


So the Constitution does not literally declare separation of church and state. It declares total religious freedom for all Americans. That is in effect much the same, nothing is imposed.


The only way government can do anything it wants is if we let it. We, the people, can stop any general abuse if we act on it. Public education is the key. And I agree that the education must be certified and correct. If the media reported current events correctly and completely, this would go a long ways to documenting true history for the books.


Don Grbac

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Feb. 24 2012, 1:45 pm

^^ Exactly, but think about the people that are in academia - mostly very left.  And where does much of the money come from to pay for the schools?  It's the government.  And why do you think it's so difficult getting a choice in where you are allowed to school your children?


And remember, it's the government that has been removing God from our schools and our history.  Court cases keep removing all mentions of God from public lands and courts have told students that they may not pray at a school activity.  Students have even been suspended for bringing a Bible to school.  The 10 Commandments keep being removed from everywhere and there are some people that demand a "freedom from religion."  They demand that nativity scenes and crosses be removed and don't you dare say "Merry Christmas" because it might offend someone.  The government has been pushing itself as god ("In Government We Depend") instead of "In God We Trust."  (I even have a friend who used to be a school teacher that was reprimanded for putting "In God We Trust" up in his classroom.)


Our government learned from Hitler - "Let me control the textbooks and I will control the state. The state will take youth and give to youth its own education and its own upbringing. Your child belongs to us already."   This is why the Federal Government has unConstitutionally taken over education.  There's a Proverb in the Bible that says, "Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it."  If the government can train a child in such a way to not let them think for themselves and only obey the government, the populace becomes enslaved to the government.  This is why people can't problem solve as well as we did a century ago.  As Professor Thomas Sowell says, "Think beyond step 1."


 


BTW - I'm very familiar with David Barton - http://wallbuilders.com/ - He has the largest collection of US historical materials outside of Library of Congress.  We would all do well to learn from him.


caltrek2

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Report this Feb. 24 2012, 2:03 pm

Quote: dfgrbac @ Feb. 24 2012, 11:06 am

Quote: caltrek2 @ Feb. 24 2012, 8:35 am

>

>

>Part of the problem is agreeing on what it is we need to work for, and how we go about achieving the desired ends.

>At 90,000 feet it is easy to say and agree that humans are essentially noble creatures and that they should be free and treated with dignity.

>On the ground we are constatly fighting and arguing each other about what that means and about how we can achieve such lofty goals.  In doing so, we often negate that which we first sought to achieve.

>

And why is that, that we constantly fight instead of working things out?

I think this is because of massive misunderstanding due to all the misinformation we are constantly exposed to by the major media.  Today's media is controlled by very few but powerful companies that make sure the people don't get any information that would undermine their corporate agendas.

The only cure to this is for the people to get upset enough to start doing their own research and to detect what are lies and truth.


Exactly. None of this is helped by a Supreme Court that insists that corporations should have the same right as people. First it was a fetus with little discernable mental activity. Now its corporations. When you keep granting the right of personhood to such a wide grouping then the rights of real person are diluted. They have to compete with all of these other entities.


Suddenly, a woman does not have control over her own body. The people no longer have control over the media, and on and on it goes. Then we are told that this is the way the founding fathers wanted it to be?


Right.                        


As Americans, we sometimes suffer from too much pluribus and not enough unum. - Arthur Schelsinger, Jr.

caltrek2

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Report this Feb. 24 2012, 2:30 pm


Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other; or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You can not serve both God and mammon.

—Matthew 6:19-21,24

Mammon is a term, derived from the Christian Bible, used to describe material wealth or greed, most often personified as a deity, and sometimes included in the seven princes of Hell.



1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. 2 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”

 3 He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4 He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. 5 Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent? 6 I tell you that something greater than the temple is here. 7 If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent. 8 For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”


Matthew Chapter 12

 



 


 




FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Feb. 24 2012, 2:43 pm

Something else that I'll add to the discussion about government vs. religion.  Before the US broke away from England, we had some very courageous patriots who were clergy and they spoke out against the evils of tyranny.  The British government named them the "Black Robe Regiment" and blamed them, correctly, for America's independence.  In fact, many, if not all of the rights mentioned in the Declaration of Independence were actually topics in sermons.  It is for this reason that the British often targeted the Black Robe Regiment:


"[T]here was a class of clergymen and chaplains in the Revolution whom the British, when they once laid hands on them, treated with the most barbarous severity. Dreading them for the influence they wielded and hating them for the obstinacy, courage, and enthusiasm they infused into the rebels, they violated all the usages of war among civilized nations in order to inflict punishment upon them." --  J. T. Headley, The Chaplains and Clergy of the Revolution (New York: Charles Scribner, 1864), p. 58.


It used to be quite common for churches to cover the news and current topics.  Since religious people were the ones that pushed for freedom, we can see why our own government is attacking religion all over the country.  Which is going to be the force in our lives, God or government?


caltrek2

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Report this Feb. 24 2012, 2:58 pm


Ezekiel 18:5-9

Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)




Ezekiel, Chapter18: 


5 “Now suppose a man is righteous and does what is just and right: 6 He does not eat at the mountain shrines or raise his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel. He does not defile his neighbor’s wife or come near a woman during her menstrual impurity. 7 He doesn’t oppress anyone but returns his collateral to the debtor. He does not commit robbery, but gives his bread to the hungry and covers the naked with clothing. 8 He doesn’t lend at interest or for profit but keeps his hand from wrongdoing and carries out true justice between men. 9 He follows My statutes and keeps My ordinances, acting faithfully. Such a person is righteous; he will certainly live.” This is the declaration of the Lord GOD


Mitchz95

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Report this Feb. 24 2012, 4:42 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>I suppose western nations can all give their free will over to religious doctrine and allow clergy to make all the decisions. I suppose we can put an imaginary god ahead of state. Then we can live just like they do in those middle eastern countries. I know, we can sacrifice virgins to appease the storm gods. Maybe we can sacrifice a pig so the west coast doesn't have an earthquake. Perhaps a rain dance will bring some rain. I mean none of that is ridicules, eh?


Whether you believe in God or not, you have to admit that generally, the principles in the Bible are good - compassion, peace, selflessness, etc. Much better than what's happening right now - greed, corruption, violence, etc.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Feb. 24 2012, 5:10 pm

Quote: Mitchz95 @ Feb. 24 2012, 4:42 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>I suppose western nations can all give their free will over to religious doctrine and allow clergy to make all the decisions. I suppose we can put an imaginary god ahead of state. Then we can live just like they do in those middle eastern countries. I know, we can sacrifice virgins to appease the storm gods. Maybe we can sacrifice a pig so the west coast doesn't have an earthquake. Perhaps a rain dance will bring some rain. I mean none of that is ridicules, eh?

Whether you believe in God or not, you have to admit that generally, the principles in the Bible are good - compassion, peace, selflessness, etc. Much better than what's happening right now - greed, corruption, violence, etc.

Could you imagine if everyone followed the 10 Commandments?  But I guess that's why they're being removed.... the government like it that people just might follow them...


Yea, yea... I know.... it would just be so horrid that people would stop lying and stealing and killing...


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Feb. 24 2012, 6:45 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>I spend as much time as possible in the woods. There at least a man can find true freedom.
Except from "the laws of nature and natures God."  (Something from Thomas Jefferson.)


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Feb. 24 2012, 7:13 pm

I've never subscribed to the idea that believing in God meant that I don't think for myself - in fact, because of what I see and understand, I choose to see what God has done and that He is.  And that doesn't mean just turning off the brain and doing what some preacher tells me to either.... history shows that some of them are the worst of people.


The Bible talks long about using what God gave us, and that includes the Brain.  "Study to shew thyself approved unto God..."


Jefferson also wrote (to his nephew Peter Carr), "Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because, if there be one, he must more approve the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Feb. 24 2012, 8:36 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>First of all,just so we understand each other,I will not say if there is a god or not. I simply don't know.I don't believe in the god of the bible as there is a good deal of ancient texts written by men that make fantastic claims. As for thinking for yourself I guess maybe you do but it seems strange that one who says he thinks for himself accepts something as fact that cannot be proven. The bibical quote, does that mean to know god we must learn and understand"his creation?"........ Like scientific understanding? Like understanding that a great deal of bibical text is mitholigy?like creation? Like the great flood? Like virgin births? Like dead men walking and talking? Need I go on? Admit to me that these things are at least possibly untrue and I will accept that you think for yourself. As for that Jefferson quote I would say they are wise words indeed
When it comes to a God.... a true God... the creator of all... each one of those things that you listed are possible.  They're just not possible without God.  Just because we don't understand or can't explain it doesn't mean it doesn't exist or never happened.


But as we study more and more, the more we get to know His creation, and possibly know Him more.


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