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Why Was Harry Always an Ensign?

kjaneway11

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POSTS: 86

Report this Feb. 03 2012, 2:18 pm

All through the series, Harry Kim remained an Ensign. (There's only so much room on a Starship, right?)


While others went to Lieutenant, Lieutenant Commander, so on and so forth, poor Harry remained an Ensigh.

Mitchz95

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Report this Feb. 03 2012, 7:37 pm

I always wondered about that too. Tom Paris even got demoted once, but got back up less than two seasons later. Harry should have been promoted at least once in the show, even if it was in an alternate timeline (aside from Endgame).


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

Sora

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Report this Feb. 03 2012, 7:58 pm

Due to Voyager's situation, there was really no room for advancement. If you think about it, only two characters got promoted, Tuvok and Tom Paris.


Now I don't know what the deal is on Tuvok. Because in Season 1, Tuvok is referred to as Lieutenant. But he wears the rank pips of Lieutenant Commander. Now towards the end of the first season, his 3rd pip disappears. Then in Season 4 he's promoted to Lieutenant Commander. There's an unnofficial theory, that Tuvok was demoted for his actions in the episode Prime Factors, off screen of course.


And then Tom Paris was promoted back to his original rank after being demoted. So both characters who were promoted were both demoted as well. Nobody actually got to a higher rank than their original rank.

Caesar753

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Report this Feb. 03 2012, 9:37 pm

Kim actually mentioned this in Nightingale.  There was only so much room for promotion on a ship so far from home.  Not everyone could be captain, could they?

guillermo.mejía

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Report this Feb. 04 2012, 12:11 am

The real world reason (as explained by Garrett Wang in an interview) was that the writers felt there must always be an Ensign on the show to keep a familiar dynamic (e.i. Chekov, Wesley) It's complete bull, with even Kim recognizing all his work would have made him a Lt. in just the first 4 years of Voyager's travels.


The way I see it, it's proof that the writers never took the Kim character seriously. If they had, Seven would been paired with him rather than Chakotay out of the blue...but that's a rant for another day.


"Aye. And if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon." - Scotty, The Miracle Worker since 2265.

Reedworftripparis

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Report this Feb. 04 2012, 3:36 pm

Quote: guillermo.mejía @ Feb. 04 2012, 12:11 am

>

>The real world reason (as explained by Garrett Wang in an interview) was that the writers felt there must always be an Ensign on the show to keep a familiar dynamic (e.i. Chekov, Wesley) It's complete bull, with even Kim recognizing all his work would have made him a Lt. in just the first 4 years of Voyager's travels.

>The way I see it, it's proof that the writers never took the Kim character seriously. If they had, Seven would been paired with him rather than Chakotay out of the blue...but that's a rant for another day.

>


 


No please rant. That whole Chakotay Seven thing made me wanna puke.  I hated that. It was just thrown in there. No rhyme or reason. And it annoyed me. Now I understand why he wasn't with Janeway, but even in the earlier seasons it would have made sense with Torres. 


And while it makes sense to not promote anyone because of their unique situtation, they could have promoted the ones that really deserved it. And they added Seven when they got rid of Kes, they could have added another character as an Ensign. But that in itself is another story. I know there isn't a lot of love for Harry but I liked the character. 


"Reed Alert, that's not bad"...Malcolm Reed

Vulcan1981

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Report this Feb. 04 2012, 7:44 pm

Quote: Reedworftripparis @ Feb. 04 2012, 3:36 pm

Quote: guillermo.mejía @ Feb. 04 2012, 12:11 am

>

>

>The real world reason (as explained by Garrett Wang in an interview) was that the writers felt there must always be an Ensign on the show to keep a familiar dynamic (e.i. Chekov, Wesley) It's complete bull, with even Kim recognizing all his work would have made him a Lt. in just the first 4 years of Voyager's travels.

>The way I see it, it's proof that the writers never took the Kim character seriously. If they had, Seven would been paired with him rather than Chakotay out of the blue...but that's a rant for another day.

>

 

No please rant. That whole Chakotay Seven thing made me wanna puke.  I hated that. It was just thrown in there. No rhyme or reason. And it annoyed me. Now I understand why he wasn't with Janeway, but even in the earlier seasons it would have made sense with Torres. 

And while it makes sense to not promote anyone because of their unique situtation, they could have promoted the ones that really deserved it. And they added Seven when they got rid of Kes, they could have added another character as an Ensign. But that in itself is another story. I know there isn't a lot of love for Harry but I liked the character. 


 


Personally, I wanted Seven with Janeway or the Doctor, but anywho...


Kim wasn't promoted as like you said, the show wanted someone to be ensign and there's more reasoning behind it. It was a way to punish Wang, who was almost fired a couple of times. He consistently showed up late for shoots, etc. Before Kes' exit was decided, originally it was going to be Kim and he was going to die. Last minute they chose Kes to leave after Wang made one of tv's most beautiful people of that year and they felt loosing him may have made the ratings decline. So, don't feel sorry for him, he deserved what he got. But, if you're a Kim fan, he does get a promotion in the novels.


"Comforting words. Use them next time instead of "resistance is futile". You may elicit a few volunteers."- Seven of Nine

Kesfan74656

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Report this Feb. 04 2012, 7:50 pm

I never hated Harry, as many seem to be ready to 'confess to'. He was a good guy. But, perhaps his 'rep' might have been helped a bit, by pushing him up the ranks a bit. And a further development of his character. They did try to give him a bit more to do, by placing him in charge of the second watch a few times, enabling him to at least get a taste of command. I've always liked ''The Chute''; I felt it was a good outlet for him. And there was Nightingale, and Timeless. I think that his relationship with Tom played a major role in defining who he was, and, after Paris and Lanna began their relationship, like so many single men, he got left somewhat behind. I always liked the two having an adventure together, they were a good team. I think that he might have had something with her himself, perhaps, but, the role of kid brother seemed to fit perhaps better, I suppose, at a glance. I wonder if the fact of such a large cast had any impact upon him receiving focus, as it did with others. It's a pity, that Voyager could not have successfully given all the cast more focus, as DS9 did with its cast, plus the supporting characters, but, like TOS, and TNG-and Enterprise, certain ones seemed to get more interest by writers. But, I admit, I love the trios of both TOS and STE. It's also unfortunate, that the entire 'Lien or Wang' thing was ever an issue,  but, it's water down the loo, anyway.


''If I were captain, i'd open every crack in the universe, and peek inside, just like Captain Janeway does''-Kes, ''The Cloud''

OneDamnMinuteAdmiral

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Report this Feb. 05 2012, 9:19 am

There may have been "so much room" for advancement on Voyager but since Harry was the department head for OPS then if he moves up there is a whole group of workers who could move up and that would be good for morale, at least I think so. Yeah noone else can reach Captain but excellent performance should be rewarded, so a few promotions among the crew should have happened.


Are you sure it isn't time for a colorful metaphor?

miklamar

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Report this Feb. 08 2012, 12:39 pm

I could see why people weren't promoted while Voyager was still in space.  But, I hope they were all promoted after they returned to Earth.


Var Miklama--Zakdorn, engineer. "A sound mind in a FULL body!" "Time, like latinum, is a limited quantity in the galaxy."

Beershark

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Report this Feb. 09 2012, 10:34 pm

Quote: Caesar753 @ Feb. 03 2012, 9:37 pm

>

>Kim actually mentioned this in Nightingale.  There was only so much room for promotion on a ship so far from home.  Not everyone could be captain, could they?

>


I just watched the final episode of season six today, although the title escapes me at the moment. When Tom gets his pip back, Harry makes a sarcastic comment about he's never found a wooden box on his chair, referring to the box containing Tom's pip.


CORPORATIONS AREN'T PEOPLE! Soylent Green is people.

SnugglePuff

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Report this Feb. 10 2012, 5:18 pm

I also hated how there were never any enlisted on Voyager, all officers. At least DS9 gave a glimspe into the enlisted side of Star Trek. They really do need a military advisor for this series.


There's no easy way in, that's why they send Marines in. Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem. Ronald Reagan, President of the United States; 1985

stovokor2000-A

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Report this Feb. 10 2012, 7:39 pm

Quote: SnugglePuff @ Feb. 10 2012, 5:18 pm

>I also hated how there were never any enlisted on Voyager, all officers.
That may actully not be the case.


We saw quite a few "crewmen" on Voyager.


And we learned that many of the enlisted personal are called "crewmen".


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FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Feb. 10 2012, 7:41 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Feb. 10 2012, 7:39 pm

Quote: SnugglePuff @ Feb. 10 2012, 5:18 pm

>

>I also hated how there were never any enlisted on Voyager, all officers.
That may actully not be the case.

We saw quite a few "crewmen" on Voyager.

And we learned that many of the enlisted personal are called "crewmen".

Correct, but I was surprised that they didn't even acknowledge a Chief Petty Officer.


stovokor2000-A

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POSTS: 2001

Report this Feb. 10 2012, 9:01 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Feb. 10 2012, 7:41 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Feb. 10 2012, 7:39 pm

Quote: SnugglePuff @ Feb. 10 2012, 5:18 pm

>

>

>I also hated how there were never any enlisted on Voyager, all officers.
That may actully not be the case.

We saw quite a few "crewmen" on Voyager.

And we learned that many of the enlisted personal are called "crewmen".

Correct, but I was surprised that they didn't even acknowledge a Chief Petty Officer.

its a shame we didnt see one


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