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Report this Jan. 31 2012, 7:54 pm

Try accepting the reality that there is no spoon...

CORPORATIONS AREN'T PEOPLE! Soylent Green is people.


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Report this Feb. 01 2012, 6:44 am

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>Well of course demeaning a portion of your own race i wrong, but I appreciate that the episode deals witht he fact that:

>- You can't change the basic beliefs of a race in one day and assume it'll work itself out, like Kirk used to do when he liberated people from machine overlords.

>- Who are we humans to antagonize other races in the galaxy? We get rid of wars and famine in under 3 generations and suddenly we have the right to tell other races how to live?

>I didn't really care much for Trip's character till this episode. I saw what he was doing and early on knew this was goign to backfire on him. Better than 'Dear Docotr' this episode explains just how badly things would go without a Prime Directive and first contact procedures. When Trip got some humility smacked down on him by Archer, I finally was able to begin liking Trip.

>Plus, is killing people at a wedding OK? I don't think so, but Vulcans do, and the Federation doesn't seem to prohibit it. It's not about letting things slide; it's about respecting other cultures different from yourself. You can preach better ways, but you can't force them.

>Okay, counter-rant over.


Counter-counter rant commencing...

We'll have to agree to disagree on the messages of this whole episode.

You are not going to convert me and I'm not going to convert you I think.

I 'disliked' Archer after this episode. I thought him sanctimonious. I liked Trip better though.

I think that Vulcans are borderline acceptable. If they indeed keep women as chattel then they should be excluded from the Federation. If their women are not allowed to refuse to get married or divorce then the Vulcans are nearly as bad as the 'Cogenitor' people. But in ENT T'Pol showed that she could have got out of marriage albeit at a cost to her family. And if Tpring wanted to sentence Spock to death by refusing him at the last minute then she deserved her champion to die. Spock would have. If only Kirk had not agreed to be her champion...

At least we can agree that Trip came out better from this episode.

And what's that about 'Darmok'? Darmok was awesome! Think of the concept: you are stuck on an alien world with this other being you have absolutely no way of understanding; you don't know if he is friend or foe and the only weapon you have is understading him. I'm damn sure that less than 1% of Starfleet could have survived that encounter or handled it as well as Picard did. Every time Picard figured something out I was like: "Oh sweet! I get it now too!" This episode is part of the Picard DVD collection for a reason and one of the top 5 essencial Picard episode in my mind.

"Aye. And if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon." - Scotty, The Miracle Worker since 2265.


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Report this Feb. 01 2012, 3:33 pm

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>Why The Congenitor? I find it to be an important episode, as it shows just how green and ignorant humans are when they first go out exploring. I didn't think they'd dare end the episode with a death, but they did, and I'm glad, because having Trip, or anyone go around impossing values on another culture, to the point that he undermines and ignores the other culture completely is just wrong.


Yes its OK to keep people in slavery though.

I actually thought the episode Cogenitor was interesting for the Shades of Grey Morality it provided -- a situation where any decision cannot be presented in terms of "wrong" and "right", but there is only "wrong" and "less wrong". Although I am personally of the opinion that it would have been "less wrong" to grant the cogenitor asylum, I am glad that Trek writers are not afraid to present these kind of problematic situations without the possibility of a fully satisfactory solution.

As to the original question, I would not take out anything -- occasional discrepancies aside, I tend to take each story as it happens, and I agree with the poster who said that "canon" in Star Trek is, to each person, a matter of interpretation in what they choose to incorporate. Did the Eugenics Wars happen in the 1990s, for example, or did they happen some time in the 22nd century? In a way it doesn't matter as much as the influence they had over Trek lore.

Name me any given character and the chances are, my notion of that character will be somewhat different to yours, and ours to anyone else's.

Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?


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Report this Feb. 02 2012, 2:45 pm

I think Kirk's two fisted hammer punch should be removed from cannon.


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Report this Feb. 02 2012, 7:29 pm

I don't believe this...we're removing stuff from canon because we don't like them? I would remove the stuff that contradicts continuity and nothing the Earth/Kzin wars that apparently took place in the 2060s.

"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau


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Report this Feb. 03 2012, 7:17 pm

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>OK I'd get rid of TOS episodes "Spock's Brain", 'That Which Survives', 'And the Children Shall Lead',

>TNG episodes 'Sub Rosa', 'The Naked Now' and most of Seasons 1 and 2,

>In VOY the epsidode where Paris and Janeway 'get together'

>In ENT the episode where Porthous gets sick and 'The Cogenitor'. I'd also remove some of the Vulcan slamming episodes and the gratitious naked episodes.

>Movies - Get rid of all movies past TSFS except for First Contact.

>I'd also make the replicators and transporting far less powerful and encompassing.

>I'd canonise part of TAS but not all.



Oh SF!  I agree with everything you said but one.......I loved 'A Night in Sickbay'


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Report this Feb. 08 2012, 10:17 am

All Trek is good Trek.

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