ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

Who would be a believable wife for Spock

guillermo.mejía

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2852

Report this Feb. 01 2012, 5:56 am

Quote: Trekwolf164 @ Jan. 31 2012, 4:38 pm

Quote: guillermo.mejía @ Jan. 31 2012, 9:46 am

Quote: Trekwolf164 @ Jan. 31 2012, 8:15 am

Quote: guillermo.mejía @ Jan. 31 2012, 7:05 am

>

>

>

>

>It is illogical to think of a being created in a lab is equal to one created by the choice of a bonded couple.

>You must not agree with Data and the Doctor being recognized as setiant beings then.

>And what happened on Genesis may be illogical, but jus like Time Travel, it happened. And we know neither Saavik or Spock are conventional Vulcans: Spock is half human, and we saw Saavik cry during Spocks funeral in TWOK.

>

Data is an autonomus AI

The Doctor is a holoprogram nothing more Janeway proved that by reprograming him.

 

According to canon law, at least Data is recognized as a being equal to human life. The doctor's ase may be different, but even the hologram deserves SOME rights. Why can't clones have some rights?

But getting back to Spock's hypothetical child...say a man is drugged and raped (because it can and has happened) and the woman attacking becomes pregnent. He was 'out of mind' when the child was conceived; so can he just consider it like a nephew of sorts?

If the man was raped the child is stolen DNA .To force him to take responsibility for the child is compounding the horendous act that he already endured.

A female that is raped can get an abortion if she choses and no one would think less of her because she was violated.

 

Those desicions are based on human emotions such as shame and/or anger or the emotional inability to cope with what the child represents. Those factors would normally not be a part of the Vulcan thought process in this situation.


The child is not guilty of being brought into the world, so what logical reason is there to deny the child as your own. Granted their can be situations where one cannot care for the child, such as Spock's service in Starfleet, or perhaps wanting to keep secret what happened on Genesis, but those are very special circunstances.


"Aye. And if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon." - Scotty, The Miracle Worker since 2265.

Trekwolf164

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 32043

Report this Feb. 01 2012, 7:38 am

Quote: guillermo.mejía @ Feb. 01 2012, 5:56 am

Quote: Trekwolf164 @ Jan. 31 2012, 4:38 pm

Quote: guillermo.mejía @ Jan. 31 2012, 9:46 am

Quote: Trekwolf164 @ Jan. 31 2012, 8:15 am

Quote: guillermo.mejía @ Jan. 31 2012, 7:05 am

>

>

>

>

>

>It is illogical to think of a being created in a lab is equal to one created by the choice of a bonded couple.

>You must not agree with Data and the Doctor being recognized as setiant beings then.

>And what happened on Genesis may be illogical, but jus like Time Travel, it happened. And we know neither Saavik or Spock are conventional Vulcans: Spock is half human, and we saw Saavik cry during Spocks funeral in TWOK.

>

Data is an autonomus AI

The Doctor is a holoprogram nothing more Janeway proved that by reprograming him.

 

According to canon law, at least Data is recognized as a being equal to human life. The doctor's ase may be different, but even the hologram deserves SOME rights. Why can't clones have some rights?

But getting back to Spock's hypothetical child...say a man is drugged and raped (because it can and has happened) and the woman attacking becomes pregnent. He was 'out of mind' when the child was conceived; so can he just consider it like a nephew of sorts?

If the man was raped the child is stolen DNA .To force him to take responsibility for the child is compounding the horendous act that he already endured.

A female that is raped can get an abortion if she choses and no one would think less of her because she was violated.

 

Those desicions are based on human emotions such as shame and/or anger or the emotional inability to cope with what the child represents. Those factors would normally not be a part of the Vulcan thought process in this situation.

The child is not guilty of being brought into the world, so what logical reason is there to deny the child as your own. Granted their can be situations where one cannot care for the child, such as Spock's service in Starfleet, or perhaps wanting to keep secret what happened on Genesis, but those are very special circunstances.


If Spock wanted a child he would logically seek out a mate.


Because his mindless body was a sperm donor logic would dictate that it was a biological error and the result should be discarded unless the female that produced the offspring desires it.


 


 


www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcdZla4gKk0

guillermo.mejía

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2852

Report this Feb. 01 2012, 8:05 am

If Spock wanted a child he would logically seek out a mate.


Under normal conditions that would be true, but, hypothetically, this child would be thust upon him.


Because his mindless body was a sperm donor logic would dictate that it was a biological error and the result should be discarded unless the female that produced the offspring desires it.


Were it any other Vulcan, maybe, though with all the talk of Katras, one would think Vulcans have more respect towards life than that. But you have a half Vulcan/half Human who leaves the (hypothetical) mother of his child with his human mother. Again, Saavik had to have a personal reason to stay, since she was just as much Starfleet as the Enterprise crew and could have been useful rather than a hinderence. Perhaps she thought it wasn't logical to risk so much for Eart, but being the seat of power of the Federationa nd the home of Starfleet, I doubt it... Anyways, assuming her reason is pregnancy, and she stayed wit Amanda, and Amanda learns of the pregnancy...well the wife of Sarek isn't going to let her grandson be destroyed for such cold reasons.


"Aye. And if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon." - Scotty, The Miracle Worker since 2265.

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Feb. 01 2012, 12:57 pm

Quote: padracin @ Jan. 31 2012, 4:21 pm

>Stovokor2000-A you have a point - I had just hit the submit button when I recalled the phrase 'at the wedding of Sarek's son' uttered by Picard rather specifying Spock.  so on that basis you are right that its not canonically established.

>However I will defend the widespread convention that adopts that belief.  The writers inserted a very deliberate sentence into the mouth of the series main character for some reason.  There are three possibiltiies:

>1. he was talking about Spock

>2. he was talking about the half-brother

>3.  he was talking some unknown son of Sarek by some unknown mother for some unknown plot reason

>2 is unlikely since he didn't reference Sarek's 'late' son - who would have been dead by then.  Also the character hadn't been established at that point in the franchise.

>Choice 3 seems utterly pointless.  But if the character is Spock, who's already well established with Star Trek fandom that he can be refered to in shorthand its a little more understandable.  Further for plot development - this episode then links nicely into the two reunification episodes that follow.

>It is a mystery however why they didn't just say 'Spock'.  It's also a mystery as to why a marriage is referenced without developing the fate of the spouse.


I dont deny it was intended to be Spock, and gto tell the truth I reather like the idea.


But when it comes to canon, I come from the school that states "writer/creator intent is irrelevent.Unless its clearly stated in the series its not a "canon fact".


Photobucket

padracin

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 325

Report this Feb. 01 2012, 6:40 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>Wasn't the reason Spock's name wasn't mentioned was that in TNG Berman or someone wasn't allowing the names of anyone in TOS being mentioned on TNG in any capacity. They refused to acknowledge the achievements of the TOS team as it might overshadow the TNG team.

>They relaxed it later in the series to allow Unification and Relics.

>


 


Interesting ServalanFan, I never knew that but it makes sense.

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Feb. 01 2012, 10:45 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>Wasn't the reason Spock's name wasn't mentioned was that in TNG Berman or someone wasn't allowing the names of anyone in TOS being mentioned on TNG in any capacity. They refused to acknowledge the achievements of the TOS team as it might overshadow the TNG team.

>They relaxed it later in the series to allow Unification and Relics.

>
I guess thats possible, but it seems to be a bit odd since the episode in question not only mentions a TOS Character, but its plot and title is centered around that character.......... remember the episode was called "SAREK.


Photobucket

guillermo.mejía

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2852

Report this Feb. 02 2012, 10:42 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>

>

>Wasn't the reason Spock's name wasn't mentioned was that in TNG Berman or someone wasn't allowing the names of anyone in TOS being mentioned on TNG in any capacity. They refused to acknowledge the achievements of the TOS team as it might overshadow the TNG team.

>They relaxed it later in the series to allow Unification and Relics.

>
I guess thats possible, but it seems to be a bit odd since the episode in question not only mentions a TOS Character, but its plot and title is centered around that character.......... remember the episode was called "SAREK.

Someone (who seemed to be in the know) posted here that the producers of TNG were quite adamant that TOS be excluded from TNG and it was never to be mentioned. Appparently there was qyuite an emotional argument between some of the main writers and Berman/Braga over this.

You'd then wonder why they would have Sarek in TNG. But then again they couldn't exclude every TOS thing like Klingons, Romulans etc. I suppose Sarek was acceptable as long as he didn't mention Spock.

Perhaps the motivation for this if it is true was not vindictive. You know TNG had to survive on its own without everyone thinking back and comparing it to TOS every 5 minutes. Still I think they went a bit overboard not mentioning McCoy's name in the initial episode, or Spock's name in 'Sarek'.

I also don't know what happened to change their thinking in DS9 and VOY allowing tribbles and Sulu.

I suppose the fact that TNG had already established its own feel helped relax thos restrictions. GR's passing no doubt also played an important factor.


"Aye. And if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon." - Scotty, The Miracle Worker since 2265.

cowgirlcadet

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 788

Report this Feb. 09 2012, 9:50 pm

In the end of the one with the Romulan commander, didn't he tell her he hoped they'd shared something "more permanent"? Wouldn't that seem to kind of hint that he actually was sort of attracted to her, even though the reason he made out with her was mainly to keep her distracted so Kirk could sneak in and steal the cloaking device? Not that that necessarily means he'd want to marry her, but it could be a factor to consider. Then again, it could be somebody completely new, sombody so entirely different from him nobody would ever see it coming. After all, they do say that opposites attract.

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Feb. 10 2012, 2:21 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

> I suppose Sarek was acceptable as long as he didn't mention Spock.


I do recall Spocks name being mentioned once in the episode.


Photobucket

padracin

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 325

Report this Feb. 12 2012, 9:38 am

Quote: cowgirlcadet @ Feb. 09 2012, 9:50 pm

>

>In the end of the one with the Romulan commander, didn't he tell her he hoped they'd shared something "more permanent"? Wouldn't that seem to kind of hint that he actually was sort of attracted to her, even though the reason he made out with her was mainly to keep her distracted so Kirk could sneak in and steal the cloaking device? Not that that necessarily means he'd want to marry her, but it could be a factor to consider. Then again, it could be somebody completely new, sombody so entirely different from him nobody would ever see it coming. After all, they do say that opposites attract.

>


 


Indeed! Spock obviously respected her and said so.  I thought one of the relaunch novels (sorry I can't remember which) also reintroduces her character in the same time frame as Saavik is married to Spock - could be a really interesting plot.

padracin

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 325

Report this Feb. 12 2012, 9:44 am

Quote: Trekwolf164 @ Feb. 01 2012, 7:38 am

Quote: guillermo.mejía @ Feb. 01 2012, 5:56 am

Quote: Trekwolf164 @ Jan. 31 2012, 4:38 pm

Quote: guillermo.mejía @ Jan. 31 2012, 9:46 am

Quote: Trekwolf164 @ Jan. 31 2012, 8:15 am

Quote: guillermo.mejía @ Jan. 31 2012, 7:05 am

>

>

>

>

>

>

>It is illogical to think of a being created in a lab is equal to one created by the choice of a bonded couple.

>You must not agree with Data and the Doctor being recognized as setiant beings then.

>And what happened on Genesis may be illogical, but jus like Time Travel, it happened. And we know neither Saavik or Spock are conventional Vulcans: Spock is half human, and we saw Saavik cry during Spocks funeral in TWOK.

>

Data is an autonomus AI

The Doctor is a holoprogram nothing more Janeway proved that by reprograming him.

 

According to canon law, at least Data is recognized as a being equal to human life. The doctor's ase may be different, but even the hologram deserves SOME rights. Why can't clones have some rights?

But getting back to Spock's hypothetical child...say a man is drugged and raped (because it can and has happened) and the woman attacking becomes pregnent. He was 'out of mind' when the child was conceived; so can he just consider it like a nephew of sorts?

If the man was raped the child is stolen DNA .To force him to take responsibility for the child is compounding the horendous act that he already endured.

A female that is raped can get an abortion if she choses and no one would think less of her because she was violated.

 

Those desicions are based on human emotions such as shame and/or anger or the emotional inability to cope with what the child represents. Those factors would normally not be a part of the Vulcan thought process in this situation.

The child is not guilty of being brought into the world, so what logical reason is there to deny the child as your own. Granted their can be situations where one cannot care for the child, such as Spock's service in Starfleet, or perhaps wanting to keep secret what happened on Genesis, but those are very special circunstances.

If Spock wanted a child he would logically seek out a mate.

Because his mindless body was a sperm donor logic would dictate that it was a biological error and the result should be discarded unless the female that produced the offspring desires it.

 

 


 


Further  nothing says that every pon farr mating results in a pregnancy.  Like Vulcans don't know how to prevent conception?    Tuvok on VOY discusses with Janeway the conscious decision he and his wife make to start a family and how that played into his career decisions.


The movie implied that Saavik was acting out of compassion, possibly due to the erroneous belief that hybrids would die during pon farr without mating like Vulcans.  But we know that isn't true.

Recently logged in

Users browsing this forum: FleetAdmiral_BamBam

Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum