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poverty a matter of choice

chr33355

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POSTS: 1551

Report this Jan. 17 2012, 9:13 am


Over the years I have absolutely infuriated a number of listeners with my insistence that poverty is a mental disease.   I’ve said that the rich keep getting richer because they keep doing what it was that made them rich … and ditto for the poor.  I’ve also said that, barring a mental or physical disaster, each of us is exactly where we are in life due to the results of the conscious decisions we have made in our lives up to this point.  Wow!  Does this ever tick people off!  I know why, though.  Each of these statements points to one thing .. individual responsibility; and individual responsibility and self reliance are not concepts that are popular with far too many Americans.


This all came to mind last night while I was watching the GOP “debate” on Fox.  Rick Santorum cited a study by the Brookings Institute on the causes of poverty.  He cited three simple things that a person needed to do in order to avoid living in what we in the United States define as “poverty.” 


Several years ago I memorized three rules for avoiding poverty … three simple rules.  I believe I got them from a book by Og Mandino, but wherever they came from, they impressed me enough that I had cards printed with these three points on them to hand out when appropriate.  The three steps were:




Stay in school.



Don’t get pregnant



When you get out of school get a job.  Any job.  And keep that job until you can find one that pays more.



Simple as that.  But Santorum launched my curiosity about the Brookings study, so it was time for some research.  Well … actually, it was time for Cristina to do some research.  She found that the Brookings study referenced by Santorum was actually a book:  Creating an Opportunity Societyby Ron Haskins and Isabel Sawhill.   Here’s the excerpt with the reference as to how to avoid poverty:



Our research shows that if you want to avoid poverty and join the middle class in the United States, you need to complete high school (at a minimum), work full time andmarry before you have children. If you do all three, your chances of being poor fall from 12 percent to 2 percent, and your chances of joining the middle class or above rise from 56 to 74 percent. (We define middle class as having an income of at least $50,000 a year for a family of three.)



Great minds think alike, it seems.  Basically the same three points I’ve been making since sometime in the mid 1970s. 


But wait! (As they say), there’s more!  Author Ron Haskins has this to add:



Higher marriage rates among the poor would benefit poor adults themselves, their children, and the nation … According to the U.S. Census Bureau, children living in single-parent families are about five times as likely to live in poverty. There’s also a high probability they’ll drop out of school, get arrested, be involved in teen pregnancy themselves, have more mental health problems, and be less likely to be employed or in school as young adults. Indeed, parents themselves are physically and psychologically better off when married than single.


Now Ron Haskins didn’t mention this, so I will.   Focusing on the black community here – since that’s where we find a disproportionate share of single-parent households and teen pregnancy – let’s not forget just what brought about the destruction of the black family structure in America.  The Democrat Party.  More specifically, the so-called Great Society welfare programs brought to us by Lyndon Johnson and the Democrat Party. 



Let’s ramp up the rhetoric here a bit.  I, for one, of sick to damn death of all of this pandering to the poor, poor pitiful poor in this country.  As you just read, for the most part these people put themselves right where they are.  They aren’t so much victims as they are perpetrators.  Barack Obama has placed more people on food stamps than any president in history.  The goal here is not so much to take care of people who can’t afford their food, as it is to create a dependency society of loyal Democrat voters.  These are people who have discovered that they can earn a living at the ballot box.  Why drag your lazy ass out of bed every morning to go work at a job that “ain’t you” when all you have to do is make sure you keep Democrats in power in Washington.  It is time to give some of these people a swift kick in the rear end … right out of the welfare door and into the cold, harsh world of individual responsibility.  No more excuses. 


Now listen to this … your final little burning factoid before we move on.  In the great social welfare state being constructed by Democratsa person can do as well working one week a month at minimum wage as they can working $60,000-a-year, full-time, high-stress job.  Don’t believe it?  Here’s your link.  This is the type of society the Democrats are building for our children.  Sweet!


http://www.boortz.com/weblogs/nealz-nuze/2012/jan/17/poverty-matter-choice/


shika_narks

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POSTS: 852

Report this Jan. 17 2012, 1:06 pm

interesting. I would say not really, you are where your born but if you have the means to get out of poverty meaning you relocate to a better neighbourhood then yeah you can get out of poverty.  But if your born in the ghetto chances are you have a less likely chance, that all depends if you take steps to motivate yourself.

chr33355

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POSTS: 1551

Report this Jan. 17 2012, 1:23 pm

Quote: shika_narks @ Jan. 17 2012, 1:06 pm

>

>interesting. I would say not really, you are where your born but if you have the means to get out of poverty meaning you relocate to a better neighbourhood then yeah you can get out of poverty.  But if your born in the ghetto chances are you have a less likely chance, that all depends if you take steps to motivate yourself.

>
 Your last sentance is exactly the point of this article if you truly want to escape poverty you will find a way.  It is as easy as writing a budget and saving some percentage of your income for retirement, a home, a car and wealth building.


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Jan. 17 2012, 1:52 pm

Vicsage

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Report this Jan. 17 2012, 4:25 pm

Assuming what you've written is basically true, then isn't stupid to bust your a$$ working when the government programs are better?  And aren't the smart ones,  the ones who know how to use the system as it is?  And the dumb ones are the ones who work hard and give the money to the ones not working?   Whatever the game is, you have to know the rules and how to play.  The very rich know this and the very poor.  The stupid middle class doesn't seem to know the rules of the game they are playing.


No response must mean you all agree.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Jan. 17 2012, 4:39 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>Never heard of poverty traps ?

>And no - it's not easy to get out of poverty once in it - takes opportunity and unfortunately opportunity rarely presents itself to those who are unfortunate enough to be living in poverty, it also takes money , but you are in poverty because you lack that commodity.

>Very easy for bigotted idiots who happen to be wealthy and affluent to say poverty is a matter of choice and to blame the victim of poverty for being trapped in poverty and for being a victim, but they are talking out of their arses.

>
I grew up in abject poverty - by my parents' choice.  (I even lived in a shed for a while as a kid.)  I CHOSE to get out of it by working hard and planning and taking personal responsibility.  Most opportunities are made, not presented.  I don't expect handouts - I expect to work and reap the rewards.  (My parents are still in poverty and expecting their next welfare check.)


I personally know a few multi-millionaires who grew up in the lower class, but they chose to to something.  They don't have the "in government we depend" illness - they believe in themselves and did pursued happiness instead of settling for handouts and slavery.


shika_narks

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POSTS: 852

Report this Jan. 17 2012, 4:45 pm

thats horrible but the truth is that most low income house holds work in general labour or some skill trade. They end up injuring their back or leg or arms and never recuperate ever again. Also in most cases there is no real insurance for them to fall back on so they end up lost in the system.


I use to work in community development for more then 10 years, and a lot of the employees ( I was surprised that they came from low income housing); so people who are poor do work but find it difficult to find jobs that will have them.


Im a boy..

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Jan. 17 2012, 5:03 pm

^^ A hard working and responsible employee is very hard to find.  People can choose to be that and get rewarded.  Even if the current employer doesn't, another will.


As for being "lost in the system," what "system" would that be?  If it's the government's system....  well, that's the system that holds people back.


 


The best thing a person can do for themselves is make a choice to get out of poverty.  Then they need to educate themselves (which does not necessarily include college) and plan.  Finding a mentor is useful too.  But they need to take responsibility for themselves and not get trapped by the government.


Anybody that tells you that the pursuit of happiness equals success is lying to you - not everyone will be as successful as the next person, but those that actually try will be better off than those that don't.  The problem is that so many people believe in participation trophies that they think they deserve something even though they fail (or don't even try.)


shika_narks

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Report this Jan. 17 2012, 5:15 pm

true yeah.. but there are factors like social inclusion which basicly means that a person feels traped into a hole and they can't help themselves because of language barriers, not knowing their rights and not having access to possibilities.


Social exclusion - refers to processes in which individuals and entire communities of people are systematically blocked from rights, opportunities and resources (e.g. housing, employment, healthcare, civic engagement, democratic participation and due process) that are normally available to members of society and which are key to social integration.


Theres also mental abuse, physical and emotional abuse. (fear) is a major one. So its not just people not wanting to reward themselves, its that they dont know how.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Jan. 17 2012, 5:21 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>Can't only take your word for the above claims.
So don't, but do some homework and you can find many examples of people that started out dirt poor and are now millionaires and a handful are even billionaires.


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Jan. 17 2012, 5:25 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>The longer you are in poverty / unemployed the harder it is change this.

>Takes money to make money.

>Breaking out of poverty for those who are trapped in it is near impossible, it's not a matter of laziness, or apathy, or stupidity, it's a matter of non-existant resources, a lack of knowledge, a consequence of poor life choices when young (often), a lack of saleable skills or knowhow / education training, and often being unlucky and being born and raised in a community which is unemployment and poverty struck (yes entire towns, cities and regions of countries can be rife with unemployment and poverty struck.
All's I'm seeing are excuses. Take responsibility and try. I didn't suggest it was easy, but if you have a "failure is not an option" attitude, it will take you further than you are now.


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Jan. 17 2012, 5:28 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>A lot of self made millionaires get that way by being lucky enough to inherit property or start off doing legally questionable things to get seed capital or their start off assets. Or by winning a compensation claim for some injury (often fraudulent).
Hogwash....  Most millionaires are self-made by creating a company that products and services that people are willing to purchase.


Very few people actually inherit enough money to be millionaires (which means that they're not "self made") and your accusation of "questionable" activities are just that - an accusation.


If I remember correctly, a Forbes article a while back stated that roughly 2/3rds of all billionaires throughout the world made their fortunes by working for it.


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Jan. 17 2012, 5:31 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>Very few people who have no assets or money can make their own opportunites - sorry but in real life this means of getting out of poverty rarely happens if ever. More than likely the ones you know are telling you untruths (perhaps they have convinced themselves that did actually go from nothing to milliionaires).
That's how I started - with no assets.  I got a job, worked hard and budgeted.  While my coworkers (making the same income as me) were going out and partying and buying nice things and blowing their money, I went without and invested.  They were paying interest on their purchases while I was making interest.


Stop playing the "victim" card.


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Jan. 17 2012, 5:36 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>If you want to believe this (american dream BS) then good luck to you. But most realists know the american dream is BS and unattainable for the vaste majoriy of those who are unemployed (unemployable) and in poverty.
The "American Dream" is different for each person, but the important thing is that in America, we have the right to at least try to attain it.  And they're a whole lot better off for trying than not trying.


Take a look at Shahid Khan - he is just one of thousands of "rags to riches" stories - and now is a billionaire who owns an NFL franchise.  It was his dream and he made it happen. 


And whenever someone says that I can't do something, it just give me more motivation to prove them wrong.


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Jan. 17 2012, 5:47 pm

Quote: shika_narks @ Jan. 17 2012, 5:15 pm

>Theres also mental abuse, physical and emotional abuse. (fear) is a major one. So its not just people not wanting to reward themselves, its that they dont know how.
Ignorance can be overcome.


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