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At what point did the Star Trek franchise start to go wrong?

Voyager677

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POSTS: 27

Report this Jan. 17 2012, 9:45 am

I stand corrected.  After DS9 ended, there was only one series at a time.  They still never took a break, introducing ENT right after VOY.  I guess I was thinking VOY and ENT ran at the same time.  At any rate, I just think Star Trek could have benefited from DS9 being on its own followed by a couple year hiatus to create demand and formulate some really original and creative ideas. 

CaptainBobApril

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POSTS: 179

Report this Jan. 17 2012, 4:22 pm

I'd say Generations was a bit of a shark jumping moment, but not necessarily a fatal blow.  Just the beginning a long, slow decline.  And the fourth season of Enterprise showed that the ship could still be righted; one more season and things would've been just peachy.


No, the point where it finally went wrong is when they hired JJ Abrams to do the movie.  The fall from insightful science fiction to mindless pap had been achieved, the studio pinheads were finally happy, and now the fans are in open warfare with each other.


If Roddenberry's ashes hadn't been scattered in space, he'd be spinning in his grave at about warp six by now.

OtakuJo

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POSTS: 16362

Report this Jan. 17 2012, 7:39 pm

Quote: CaptainBobApril @ Jan. 17 2012, 4:22 pm

>

>No, the point where it finally went wrong is when they hired JJ Abrams to do the movie.  The fall from insightful science fiction to mindless pap had been achieved, the studio pinheads were finally happy, and now the fans are in open warfare with each other.

>


Whereas before the movie fans were just one big happy family with no conflicts, dischord nor disagreements whatever??


Everybody loved TNG? Everybody loved Generations? Everybody loved DS9 & Voyager? Everybody loved Enterprise?? And nobody was ever accused of just "not getting it" because they liked these more or less than original series? Or they thought Picard was a better captain than Kirk??


Fan-wars are nothing new! IF anything has ignited them in recent years, it's not the JJ movie; it's the internet!


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

RomulanValdore

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Report this Jan. 17 2012, 9:06 pm

I would say it started with Enterprise.


 


The ship seemed so small and primative, the crew looked weak and vunerable to compared to the other series where they were an advanced species.


 


When i first watched Enterprise i didn't get into it, when i went back and watched it after the series was over i enjoyed it a lot and wish i had given it a chance.


 


It was just a whole different show compared to TNG,DS9, and VOY

CaptainBobApril

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POSTS: 179

Report this Jan. 17 2012, 9:17 pm

I'm well aware that fights within fandom is as old as fandom itself.  But JJ's film only dumped gasoline on the fire.


At least before, you didn't have a whole segment of the fanbase telling another to go out on an ice floe and die already, gleefully announcing that the old franchise is dead and gone (which makes me wonder why the hell they ever got involved with Star Trek in the first place).

papashungo

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Report this Mar. 03 2012, 9:53 pm

I am fairly new to the whole star trek but from watching all the movies and the tv series except Enterprise which I have yet to get to I can name a few things that i feel were minor/major issues.


First I am only 26 but i liked Generations for the most part bc it was like passing the torch on to the TNG films even though i wish they would have cast other originals in the movies like Spock.  I would have loved an appearence of an aged spock meeting Kirk before Kirk's demise or Stewart meeting with Spock after Kirk's death but w/e.


I think the franchise started to go a little south when Paramount thought it would be a good idea to have multiple shows running at the same time along with the movies.


DS9 was a decent series even though it started out slow.


Voyager was really really slow.  I got so tired of them encountering the same sort of situations. 7 of 9  as well as some Borg encounters helped it out. Voyager lacked some of the main characters that the other 3 series had that people could really relate to. Maybe if they cast another veteran actor in the series might have helped more.  


I think they should have released Voyager like a year after DS9 wrapped up or they continued on the timeline with more involving the Enterprise. Shatnor said it best in various interviews that "all the action is being on the Enterprise" in reference to Takei wanted to command a ship of his own. I agree most of Star Trek should be based around the Enterprise with the occasional twist involving a new concept like DS9.


Selfishly speaking I think they should have done another TNG movie, which would have been a better send off for the crew. Nemesis was an ok movie, but after watching various interviews of the director I realized how much of an ass he was and lacked the knowledge of Star Trek as a whole.  Frakes should have directed it. It really only focused on Stewart, Shinzon, and the Predator ship.  I felt the rest of the cast was more or less just wondering around and did not fit in well. Yes killing data was sad but the big reason for another movie is bc they left the door open at the end.


I think it would be interesting if they mad a series involving the Titan and incorporating some cast members from voyager, DS9, and a few cameos from the Enterprise. If not in a series a movie or 2.


Was not a huge fan of the JJ Adrams movie though i think to a degree he opened the door to the possibility of bringing back a tv series as well as some more movies.


 

bvbpl

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POSTS: 189

Report this Mar. 03 2012, 10:55 pm


It started going wrong when they let the actors direct movies and episodes.  Nimoy's movies were decent, but then Shatner came along and got in the director's chair and ho-boy was that bad.


A number of TNG episodes were directed by the cast.  They even let Gates McFadden try one out.  The result wasn't memorable.


There's First Contact, directed by John Frakes.  Now, I happen to like First Contact because it is an action film, not because it is a Trek film.  It is a joyful adrenaline ride, but the cerebral Trek elements sure got underplayed.  I can only imagine what Frakes was telling Stewart as they were filming Picard's rage-induced break with reality:  "Hamier!  You've got to give me more ham in your performance, Patrick!"


Frakes also directed Insurrection, which tried to hit the same high-action content as First Contact but it fell apart.  Funny thing about Insurrection: No one ever talks about it.  That's because we've all had the memory of it blissfully burned from our minds.


 

OtakuJo

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Report this Mar. 03 2012, 11:07 pm

Quote: CaptainBobApril @ Jan. 17 2012, 9:17 pm

>

>I'm well aware that fights within fandom is as old as fandom itself.  But JJ's film only dumped gasoline on the fire.

>At least before, you didn't have a whole segment of the fanbase telling another to go out on an ice floe and die already, gleefully announcing that the old franchise is dead and gone (which makes me wonder why the hell they ever got involved with Star Trek in the first place).

>


But I can just about guarantee that if the Interwebs had been as widespread when TNG was released, you would have.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

finka

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POSTS: 146

Report this Mar. 04 2012, 2:36 am

When I watched TOS first time one episode after another I was thrilled. Then I started watching TNG from the beginning and I thought "wtf is this sh*t (just like the Picard-meme), how did they manage to bring up more series, that is no match for TOS whatsoever". I had a break, started again and now I cannot say wether I like TOS or TNG more. I just had to get used to the new crew, new ideas. I guess that when I start watching DS9 in a few days I will have the same impression. I will have to get used to all that's new in the series.


It's just that everything that is new is also different. There's no point at which the franchise went wrong.. It is just different. You can like the change or not, but it is not less valuable.


Blast your theories and observations!

Broadstorm

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Report this Mar. 04 2012, 5:59 am

Quote: bvbpl @ Mar. 03 2012, 10:55 pm

>

>A number of TNG episodes were directed by the cast.  They even let Gates McFadden try one out.  The result wasn't memorable.

>


I just looked that up, and found that the episode was Genesis.  I wouldn't want to judge her on 1 try with a script like that.

TheDriver

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Report this Mar. 04 2012, 6:45 am

The first time I was actively irritated with something that happened in Trek was Generations, as the treatment of Kirk was abominable.


And Ron Moore was one of the writers, for God's sake! What happened?!? At least he's stated that, looking back, he wished he'd handled things differently.


Now, First Contact was a lot of fun. But then Insurrection was terrible! (Let me count the ways...)


And Nemesis? Good God, what was going on?


While Voyager floundered, I never found it to be outright bad. And the same goes for Enterprise. I mean, I don't think either of those series was very good... But I'm not sure either of them counts as "jumping the shark."


Yeah, Insurrection, and Nemesis spelled DOOM for the Trek franchise.


Once those box office numbers came in for Nemesis, I knew the ride was over. For a while at least.


Say what you will about Abrams' Star Trek, but it really reignited interest in Trek. In a HUGE way.


"Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast."

Kesfan74656

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Report this Mar. 04 2012, 9:03 am

Well, I come into this with a mindset of, ''When did that happen'? Call me a loyalist, whatever, but, I don't recall ever having felt like st went south. Yes, there have been movies, that, compared to others, have not fared well, but, I've always found that each movie has its aspects worth commending. Including 'ST', which I enjoyed, and I'm a TOS fan, among other preferences, which takes me for ex to DS9, which, while it was, and by design, a rather different type of trek-perhaps this is why I drifted away fro it after it concluded-I didn't leap into an escape pod in despair over the franchise going down, not that many might claim such indeed occured with it. It was different, but, hardly a killing blow. Not for me, and not the oft-put- upon latter series, Voyager, and Enterprise.Loyalist, fine. I'll take that handle. I'll leave the rest to others. I was alone st fan, long before I came to the internet, which Oktajaku said just fueled the already-existent fan disagreements, and that, just four years ago. Oh, yeah..I guess I'm a Luddite, in part, too. LOL. Not hating I missed a lot of the  'infighting'.....


''If I were captain, i'd open every crack in the universe, and peek inside, just like Captain Janeway does''-Kes, ''The Cloud''

urbansoulphotog

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POSTS: 1

Report this Mar. 04 2012, 1:27 pm

I wouldn't call it so much a downfall as it was "oversaturation". With the exception of "Voyager" (which was lost in the Delta Quadrant) and "Enterprise" (set 100 years before the Original Series), there should have been at least some cross-pollination among the series, especially during the Dominion War. While the Original Series & TNG had a more hopeful view of space and the future, I do love the more edgy and dramatic approaches both Voyager and DS9 took with the series; each "Trek" represented the era it played. Nemesis really missed the mark, making what should have been a great send-off for the TNG crew into a sad copy of "Wrath of Khan". And Enterprise, while a well-written show and great concept, didn't follow the established canon at all. Not to say the newest Star Trek movie followed canon to the letter, but at least the storyline suggested as much, given us all new view of well loved characters. 

kenny.olivero

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Report this Mar. 04 2012, 2:53 pm



My friends: If at any time you've ever loved this franchise, be it for TOS or TNG or for DS9, Voyager or Enterprise or even Abrams' timeline version, it means it's currently being loved and has NOT gone wrong. 


I'll love to see Potter and Twilight ask this question 45+ years from now!!!


They won't have the amazing fan base that we are all a part of.




"Who am I to argue with the Captain of the Enterprise?"

Kesfan74656

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POSTS: 1119

Report this Mar. 04 2012, 3:22 pm

WELL SAID. And welcome to the boards.


''If I were captain, i'd open every crack in the universe, and peek inside, just like Captain Janeway does''-Kes, ''The Cloud''

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