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The reason Enterprise died.

Mitchz95

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1830

Report this Jan. 09 2012, 4:28 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>How does that negate what I'm saying?

>...and be careful with MA. Very good reference but they "stretch" things at times.

>


Well, you're insisting that Earth would be inside the borders of the Klingon Empire if Archer's "four days" comment is to be taken seriously. There's no canon information to indicate that's accurate.


And you're right about MA (I'm talking to both you and stovokor). But they don't technically "rewrite" things, persay. They try to interpret what people say in a way that doesn't contradict anything. And they don't always succeed.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Jan. 09 2012, 4:33 pm

Either way, MA tries to make things fit and sometimes they just push it too far.


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Mitchz95

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1830

Report this Jan. 09 2012, 4:40 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Jan. 09 2012, 4:33 pm

>

>Either way, MA tries to make things fit and sometimes they just push it too far.

>


Can you give an example? Post a link if you can.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

Matthias Russell

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7705

Report this Jan. 09 2012, 5:39 pm

How many good shows die in the first year, especially spin-offs?  Fox is notorious for killing popular shows.  Even highly rated shows like Firefly and Caprica died after one season.  With the odds of how many shows don't make it through one season, be impressed ENT made it to four.  Hell, TOS only got 3!  The odds are a show would fail; but Ent didn't fail; it did better than the original.  Does a trek show have to make 7 seasons to be "good"?


My theory about why it was axed for good when it was has been because Nemesis was SO bad.  Nemesis killed enthusiasm for trek.  Had Nemesis been a good movie, more people would have gravitated to ENT.  Let's face it, even the best shows take a while to hit their stride.  Even Cheers, one of the highest rated shows of all times was almost axed after its first season.


Matthias Russell

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POSTS: 7705

Report this Jan. 09 2012, 5:42 pm

No one respects the concept of canon more than me, but let's face it, ENT didn't break "canon" more than any other show.  TOS and TNG probably do more than any other.  Tit for tat, I'll bet TNG made more boo boos in its first 4 seasons and was not as good of a show during its first.  By the time ENT came along, trek fans on the whole were too snobby to even give it a chance.


stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Jan. 09 2012, 6:36 pm

Quote: Mitchz95 @ Jan. 09 2012, 4:40 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Jan. 09 2012, 4:33 pm

>

>

>Either way, MA tries to make things fit and sometimes they just push it too far.

>

Can you give an example? Post a link if you can.

an example of what exactly?You alreaDY AGREED THEY TRY TO FIX ISSUES.


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stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Jan. 09 2012, 6:37 pm

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Jan. 09 2012, 5:39 pm

>

>How many good shows die in the first year, especially spin-offs?  Fox is notorious for killing popular shows.  Even highly rated shows like Firefly and Caprica died after one season.  With the odds of how many shows don't make it through one season, be impressed ENT made it to four.  Hell, TOS only got 3!  The odds are a show would fail; but Ent didn't fail; it did better than the original.  Does a trek show have to make 7 seasons to be "good"?

>My theory about why it was axed for good when it was has been because Nemesis was SO bad.  Nemesis killed enthusiasm for trek.  Had Nemesis been a good movie, more people would have gravitated to ENT.  Let's face it, even the best shows take a while to hit their stride.  Even Cheers, one of the highest rated shows of all times was almost axed after its first season.

>
CapricaGOT 2 SEASONS DIDNT IT?


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Mitchz95

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1830

Report this Jan. 09 2012, 6:39 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Jan. 09 2012, 6:36 pm

>

>an example of what exactly?You alreaDY AGREED THEY TRY TO FIX ISSUES.

>


An example of when MA "pushed it too far" as you put it, to make continuity segments fit together.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Jan. 09 2012, 7:53 pm

Quote: Mitchz95 @ Jan. 09 2012, 6:39 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Jan. 09 2012, 6:36 pm

>

>

>an example of what exactly?You alreaDY AGREED THEY TRY TO FIX ISSUES.

>

An example of when MA "pushed it too far" as you put it, to make continuity segments fit together.


 


well "too far" is just a matter of my opinion.


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Invader_Wishfire

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POSTS: 27518

Report this Jan. 09 2012, 8:31 pm

As far as Kronos is concerned... every time we see the Ent-D travel there, it seems to be over-night, which would indicate that the NX-01 taking several days to reach there is accurate in terms of what we've seen. Then there's the TUC discontinuity: A moon of Kronon explodes, giving the planet a rather conservative estimate of 50 years of life left. Then, almost a century later, there's a thriving Klingon homeworld. Not only that, but there's a severe difference in architecture between ENT and TNG/DS9. All of which suggests that the world we see in ENT is not the same world we see in TNG/DS9. Proof that they're different worlds? No. Evidence? Yes.


When it comes down to it, there are most certainly unanswered questions.

Mitchz95

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1830

Report this Jan. 09 2012, 8:37 pm

Good points, but I recall people calling Qo'noS the "Klingon homeworld" in TNG, DS9 and VOY. Maybe the Federation helped the Klingons fix their ecosystem through terraforming.


As for the architecture... that can change in two hundred years, can't it? And there are different forms of architecture on Earth, so maybe we just saw different cities in the two shows.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

Invader_Wishfire

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 27518

Report this Jan. 09 2012, 8:55 pm

Yes, they called it the homeworld, but that doesn't mean that they didn't colonize a new world (or use a pre-established world) and simply start refering to it as "the homeworld." At this point, it's up for debate; there's nothing definite before or after to say one way or the other.


As for architecture, sure it can change, but at the same time, it was always implied that it was the capitol city (in both ENT and TNG they went to the building that housed Klingon High Council) only to see vast differences. For a real-world comparison, look at Washington D.C. Both the Capitol Building and the White House have undergone renovations and additions, yet they are both still recognizable (today) as the same buildings that were originally constructed over 200 years ago. In the Klingon capitol city, however, architecture changed drastically.


Again, it's possible, but so is the idea of building a new capitol city on a different world.

Mitchz95

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1830

Report this Jan. 10 2012, 5:26 am

True, but they also might have just declared a new city as the capital. Or maybe the city we saw in ENT burned down or something and got rebuilt with the new architectural designs.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

Matthias Russell

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7705

Report this Jan. 10 2012, 8:28 am

As far as the distance to Quonos is concerned, what bothered me isn't how long it took to get to Quonos but that later when Archer is on Risa he says its the farthest out they've been when Risa is much closer to Earth than the Klingon homeworld.


Though this is inconsistent, does it diminish the quality of the show on the whole?  No.  TNG goes its first several seasons saying "Klingon Homeworld" instead of "Quonos".  Why?  I don't know.  Should they have used a name?  Yes.  Do I still like TNG?  Yes.


TOS had Klingons with no skull ridges.  Tellarites never come up in the 24th century.  Why I don't know.  But ENT brings up the skull ridges and Tellarites.  Thank you Enterprise.


Mitchz95

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1830

Report this Jan. 10 2012, 8:35 am

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Jan. 10 2012, 8:28 am

>

>As far as the distance to Quonos is concerned, what bothered me isn't how long it took to get to Quonos but that later when Archer is on Risa he says its the farthest out they've been when Risa is much closer to Earth than the Klingon homeworld.

>


When did they say anywhere that Risa was closer to Earth than Qo'noS?


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

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