ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

The reason Enterprise died.

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Jan. 08 2012, 8:33 pm

Quote: Mitchz95 @ Jan. 08 2012, 8:25 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Jan. 08 2012, 7:23 pm

>

>

>Excuse me.........I do believe there is a canon problem with the Romulans having cloaking devices on their ships.............if there isint please explain it to me.

>

That is technically a continuity error. Some possible explanations:

- the BoPs and mines seen in "Minefield" used experimental cloaking devices that later proved unreliable and/or dangerous

- Spock said in BoT: "Invisibility is theoretically possible, Captain– selectively bending light. But the power cost is enormous. They may have solved that". This could be interpreted as meaning that the Federation (or at least Starfleet) has encountered cloaking technology before, but that it was very rare and difficult to operate.

- Spock was mistaken in BoT (unlikely, but still possible).

That's the kind of error that viewers have to justify for themselves using their imagination.

I had no problem with the Romulans having "cloaked" mines, but they also cloaked their ships.


And I dont see any "spin" on Spocks dialod fixing that problem


Photobucket

Mitchz95

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1830

Report this Jan. 09 2012, 8:29 am

You're not making this easy...


 


Does it involve the Suliban and/or the Temporal Cold War?


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

Mitchz95

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1830

Report this Jan. 09 2012, 10:58 am

The distance between Earth and Qo'noS? Earth and Rigel? Rigel and Qo'noS??


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Jan. 09 2012, 11:08 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>

>@Yanks

>Excuse me.........I do believe there is a canon problem with the Romulans having cloaking devices on their ships.............if there isint please explain it to me.

>

Why do you say it's a canon problem?

Because, based on the dialog in TOS, it would seem the fedaration did not know that the Romulans had cloaking tech for their ships untill Blance of terror.


But due to what we saw in Enterprise, they must have known.


Photobucket

Mitchz95

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1830

Report this Jan. 09 2012, 11:17 am

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Jan. 09 2012, 11:08 am

>

>Because, based on the dialog in TOS, it would seem the fedaration did not know that the Romulans had cloaking tech for their ships untill Blance of terror.

>But due to what we saw in Enterprise, they must have known.

>


I already gave you some possible explanations. Another one: maybe Section 31 suppressed knowledge of cloaking tech for some reason.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

Mitchz95

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1830

Report this Jan. 09 2012, 12:29 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>Yup, the distance from Earth to Q-onos is 4.5 light years according to Archer in BB.

>No way, looking at the Star Trek Start Charts is this possible.

>


I'm afraid you misheard. Archer said that it would take 4 days to get there from Earth at Warp 4.5.


And Star Trek: Star Charts isn't canon.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Jan. 09 2012, 1:01 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>That's an assumption, that's all. Due to the size of the ship in BoT, the cloak could have easily been a prototype. That in no way means the Romulan's weren't working on this for year and years.


Its not an assumption at all.It doeswnt even matter that the Romulans may have been working on it a long time.


Spocks dialog clearly indicates that they [the fedaration] had no knowlidge of the Romulans having the ability to cloak a ship before the TOS era.


And yet Archers crew learned they could cloak a ship almost 80 years earlier.


Photobucket

Ghostmojo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1826

Report this Jan. 09 2012, 1:29 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>

>First contact with the Klingons?

>

Nope, Picard said FC with the Klingons was "disasturous". Archer's experiences with the Klingons are just that. So much so he ended up in prison.


Indeed.


How could it have ever been any different? Can you imagine a Klingon strolling across with a welcoming handshake and a slap on the back


"I'm jolly pleased to meet you - we're the Klingons! Welcome to the Galactic Club.


We really must do lunch sometime. Have your people contact mine ..."



to boldy go where no man has gone before

Mitchz95

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1830

Report this Jan. 09 2012, 2:06 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>Sorry, I miss spoke.

>ARCHER: Four days there, four days back, then she's gone. In the meantime, we're to extend her every courtesy.

>No way the Klingon Home-world was that close to Earth.

>


Why not? When was it stated on-screen that Qo'noS was really far from Earth?


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Jan. 09 2012, 2:29 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>

>That's an assumption, that's all. Due to the size of the ship in BoT, the cloak could have easily been a prototype. That in no way means the Romulan's weren't working on this for year and years.

Its not an assumption at all.It doeswnt even matter that the Romulans may have been working on it a long time.

Spocks dialog clearly indicates that they [the fedaration] had no knowlidge of the Romulans having the ability to cloak a ship before the TOS era.

And yet Archers crew learned they could cloak a ship almost 80 years earlier.

I think the size of the ship matters here. The one in Enterprise was tiny. much smaller than Enterprise.

I dont recall the ship being that much smaller..............but in this case it hardly mastters.


 


Based on Spocks disalog its pretty clear that the idea of a cloak ship just wasnt something the fedewration ever saw before from the Romulsns.


this is certinly a canon mistake.


Photobucket

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Jan. 09 2012, 2:30 pm

Quote: Mitchz95 @ Jan. 09 2012, 2:06 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>

>Sorry, I miss spoke.

>ARCHER: Four days there, four days back, then she's gone. In the meantime, we're to extend her every courtesy.

>No way the Klingon Home-world was that close to Earth.

>

Why not? When was it stated on-screen that Qo'noS was really far from Earth?

I cant say how far from earth, but the klingon homeworld was said to be inside the Beta quadrent.


Photobucket

FascinatingIndeed

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 119

Report this Jan. 09 2012, 3:19 pm

Holy sh*t, sifting through all the technobabble posts is giving me a headache,


ANYWAY, I think that it was just a buch of 'Star Trek fatigue', as I call it.  When you create 28 seasons worth of shows that happen in the same fictional universe, it's kind of hard to keep things fresh and interesting.

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Jan. 09 2012, 3:20 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>You can feel that way stovie. I don't believe Archer was in the "Federation".


But Archer was a member of Starfleet, the same group Spock was a mermber of.And based on Spocks dialog, STARFLEET never encounterewd romulqans with the ability to cloak their ships


And this isint about how I feel, you know I'm more then willing to accept "spins" on the dialog to help explain things when they fit..............the problem here is that nmo spint really fits.


Photobucket

Mitchz95

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1830

Report this Jan. 09 2012, 3:55 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>Sorry, I can't find my research right now. It had to do with the size of the Klingon Empire and that Earth being only 4 days away at the max speed NX-01 could have travelled put Earth inside the boundaries.

>That obviously is/was not the case.

>


According to Memory Alpha, Qo'noS is located within 90 light years of Earth since Archer said in "Two Days and Two Nights" that Risa was the farthest from Earth man had ever gone.


I'm afraid whatever your sources were, MA takes precedence over them since this information was covered in the show.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Jan. 09 2012, 4:09 pm

Quote: Mitchz95 @ Jan. 09 2012, 3:55 pm

>I'm afraid whatever your sources were, MA takes precedence over them since this information was covered in the show.


Not to comment on this issue, but MA has a recent habit of re-writing issues to make continuity fit.


Photobucket

Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum