ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

The reason Enterprise died.

T'adam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 103

Report this Jan. 06 2012, 2:18 pm

Quote: Vulcan1981 @ Jan. 06 2012, 1:17 pm

Quote: T'adam @ Jan. 06 2012, 1:00 am

>

>

>I absolutely loved Enterprise.  I dont have any real reasons why i thought it died.  I did begin to lose interest in Season 3, and I didnt enjoy the relationship between Tripp and T'Pol.  Its then that I began to lose interest

> I thought something more would develop between Archer and T'Pol as well.  I dont mind that they had a relationship, just in my opinion it wasnt Vulcan, too emotional.  I like my Vulcans to be Vulcans lol.

>

 

I actually loved their relationship. My friend wanter Archer and T'Pol...I was like no. The time travel episode I giggled, wasn't the best but had good memoments and if you're a Quantum Leap fan, doesn't Archer's jacket look very similar to Bckett's?  Easter Egg!

NEKUSASU

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 12

Report this Jan. 06 2012, 4:05 pm

I really hate when people go on about the "cannon". In fact it bugs the hell out of me. I really hate to break this to you, but ST ISN'T real. Can't you just accept it for what it is? A fun bit of SCI-FI?


HA HA HA I agree!

T'adam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 103

Report this Jan. 06 2012, 5:02 pm

Quote: NEKUSASU @ Jan. 06 2012, 4:05 pm

>

>I really hate when people go on about the "cannon". In fact it bugs the hell out of me. I really hate to break this to you, but ST ISN'T real. Can't you just accept it for what it is? A fun bit of SCI-FI?

>HA HA HA I agree!

>


 


Ill have to disagree. I like that fact that they managed to keep thinkgs canon over so many years.  the research it must have taken people to keep it all together is would be astounding.  Disappointing when things arent canon, es[pecially for those who tried so hard to keep the story true for so long.

Sora

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2606

Report this Jan. 06 2012, 5:44 pm

 


Enterprise died due to uptight disloyal fans who refused to watch because there was a POSSIBILITY of the violation of canon to a series that isn't real...it's a shame. Enterprise was an incredible series.


Live Long and Prosper

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Jan. 06 2012, 5:58 pm

Quote: brian.beard @ Jan. 05 2012, 9:11 am

>The first three seasons were too damaging to canon. The first season had the Feringi in it for crying out loud. Borg in the second,


You know what I find funny, is that you claim that the series was "damaging to canon" and then you cite examples that didnt even put a dent in canon.


Photobucket

Reedworftripparis

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 4158

Report this Jan. 06 2012, 8:23 pm

Quote: Vulcan1981 @ Jan. 06 2012, 12:47 am

>Many friends and even my fiance who shot down ENT through it's original run after I had them watch it on Netflix came to enjoy it. ENT just like TOS has become more appreciated in syndication than during it's original run. My fiance even feels guilty now for not watching it during the original run and said its because of fans like how my fiance and many of our friends were are the reason the show was cancelled.

>


 


I'm one of "those" people like your fiance. I could kick myself when I think about it. I love the show so much now


"Reed Alert, that's not bad"...Malcolm Reed

Vulcan1981

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 462

Report this Jan. 07 2012, 1:11 am

Quote: Mitchz95 @ Jan. 06 2012, 1:35 pm

Quote: Vulcan1981 @ Jan. 06 2012, 1:17 pm

>

>

>I actually loved their relationship. My friend wanter Archer and T'Pol...I was like no. The time travel episode I giggled, wasn't the best but had good memoments and if you're a Quantum Leap fan, doesn't Archer's jacket look very similar to Bckett's?  Easter Egg!

>

Which time travel episode? There were at least five.


 


Sorry, forgot the name, it was "Carpenter Street". T'Pol's reaction at the fast food restaurant was also priceless.


So


"Comforting words. Use them next time instead of "resistance is futile". You may elicit a few volunteers."- Seven of Nine

Ghostmojo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1826

Report this Jan. 07 2012, 3:29 am

Quote: Mitchz95 @ Jan. 06 2012, 12:45 pm

Quote: Ghostmojo @ Jan. 06 2012, 11:44 am

>

>

>What would have been really brave would have been to have sexed it up a bit. I know mainstream US TV doesn't work that way (which is a pity) but had they gone for a steamy late night version of Trek showing some actual Trip/T'Pol bonking - and perhaps she could have been the Lois Griffin of Enterprise and shagged her way around the whole crew (Hoshi included) - then we might have had something worth talking about and remembering!!!

>You may never have heard of Flesh Gordon which was a porno version of Flash Gordon (obviously). I'm not suggesting it went that far, but had it been more like an HBO show then it might have been really cool - lot's a fairly explicit sex and bloody violence - groundbreaking Trek or what? Now that would have been a really original, worthy, dynamic and very interesting Enterprise.

>Of course not all the fan base would have been able to watch it - but they could have produced a de-sexed, cleaner and less gory version for the under 18s ...

>

I hope you're joking. Seriously, there's absolutely NO CONCEIVABLE EXCUSE for making Star Trek a porn show. There's enough of those already.


I think you need to read my comments again. I didn't suggest it went to quite that level - but the more gritty, realistic, HBO model might have been a good approach to try. I mean they tried everything else - cartoons, movies etc. Why not a more adult-based series (and not just the sex but all the other human vices - corruption, violence, pettiness)?


to boldy go where no man has gone before

Ghostmojo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1826

Report this Jan. 07 2012, 3:34 am

Quote: Sora @ Jan. 06 2012, 5:44 pm

>

>Enterprise died due to uptight disloyal fans who refused to watch because there was a POSSIBILITY of the violation of canon to a series that isn't real...it's a shame. Enterprise was an incredible series.

>


Seriously?


What's disloyal about questioning quality and product value? Watching Star Trek and being a fan is not like belonging to some weido religious cult. You don't have to like everything. You don't have to buy into anything. You don't have to obey and stand ready with your credit card at the end of every show with some eager operator ready to deprive you of your hard-earned cash for some higher cause (like fake TV evangelism)...


to boldy go where no man has gone before

Mitchz95

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1830

Report this Jan. 07 2012, 8:23 am

Quote: Ghostmojo @ Jan. 07 2012, 3:29 am

>

>I think you need to read my comments again. I didn't suggest it went to quite that level - but the more gritty, realistic, HBO model might have been a good approach to try. I mean they tried everything else - cartoons, movies etc. Why not a more adult-based series (and not just the sex but all the other human vices - corruption, violence, pettiness)?

>


So you want another DS9? That's fine. So do I. So do a lot of other people.


But what I don't want - and hopefully a lot of others agree with me - is a show where people go around their ship randomly f***ing everybody and not getting in trouble for it. You seemed to indicate you felt otherwise in your other post - how did you put it?


"...had they gone for a steamy late night version of Trek showing some actual Trip/T'Pol bonking - and perhaps she could have been the Lois Griffin of Enterprise and shagged her way around the whole crew (Hoshi included) - then we might have had something worth talking about and remembering!!!"


Yes, that definitely would be worth talking about and remembering.


Maybe you were just exaggerating to make a point (which I'll grudgingly accept), or maybe you really do want something like that (in which case, you have my sympathies). If that scene in "Harbinger" didn't satisfy you...that's kind of sad, in my opinion.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

Ghostmojo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1826

Report this Jan. 07 2012, 10:48 am

I think you need to read my comments again. I didn't suggest it went to quite that level - but the more gritty, realistic, HBO model might have been a good approach to try. I mean they tried everything else - cartoons, movies etc. Why not a more adult-based series (and not just the sex but all the other human vices - corruption, violence, pettiness)?


So you want another DS9? That's fine. So do I. So do a lot of other people.


No I don't actually. I found DS9 boring and dull. I didn't stick with it til the end and frankly could care less about it. Is it really so hard to accept that I am just speculating about another approach that might have been taken? I'm kicking around some ideas that's all.


But what I don't want - and hopefully a lot of others agree with me - is a show where people go around their ship randomly f***ing everybody and not getting in trouble for it. You seemed to indicate you felt otherwise in your other post - how did you put it?


"...had they gone for a steamy late night version of Trek showing some actual Trip/T'Pol bonking - and perhaps she could have been the Lois Griffin of Enterprise and shagged her way around the whole crew (Hoshi included) - then we might have had something worth talking about and remembering!!!"


Yes, that definitely would be worth talking about and remembering.


It is often difficult discussing these things on a forum which is largely dominated by Americans (which I'm guessing you are) because such ironic humour and wordplay often just goes right over everybody's heads. Perhaps I should have laced that remark with so many laughing and winking smilies that there wouldn't have been any doubt. I mean didn't all the exclamation marks at the end suggest anything? And the Lois Griffin reference?


Maybe you were just exaggerating to make a point (which I'll grudgingly accept), or maybe you really do want something like that (in which case, you have my sympathies). If that scene in "Harbinger" didn't satisfy you...that's kind of sad, in my opinion.


"Harbinger"? I don't remember that one. I couldn't tell you the names of Enterprise episodes, even though I've seen most of them. Of course I was exaggerating and ruminating and speculating.


I return to the serious part of my commentary which is:


What would be wrong with a darker, grittier, more human based show that would be the kind of thing you might see on HBO - like The Sopranos, Six Feet Under etc.? Yes, it would contain sex - but tastefully done - and more real violence - intimidation - jealousies etc. It would show the real side of human beings (and aliens). We would have fully realised characters - not just cardboard cut-outs. The Trip/T'Pol relationship could be played out properly and with depth. It is after all an aspect of things that everybody must have wondered about...


to boldy go where no man has gone before

trekkie1951

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1

Report this Jan. 07 2012, 10:49 am

I liked Enterprise. I felt they should not have started as "Star Trek", but plant the idea that it might go where noone has gone before. For most of the fans that I know, the contradictions with TOS and TNG were so evident that they were hard to overlook. I realize that they were trying to create a younger fanbase. They accomplished this with Star Trek 2008, but there was not enough action in Enterprise for the younger audience. I did begin to like the series, as many of my friends did, after we stopped comparing it to TOS and TNG.  


Star Trek 1966-????

Mitchz95

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1830

Report this Jan. 07 2012, 11:00 am

Actually, I'm Canadian.


I'm sorry for misunderstanding your post, but in my defense it can be hard sometimes to pick up on sarcasm when it's written down.


 


I liked Enterprise. I felt they should not have started as "Star Trek", but plant the idea that it might go where noone has gone before. For most of the fans that I know, the contradictions with TOS and TNG were so evident that they were hard to overlook. I realize that they were trying to create a younger fanbase. They accomplished this with Star Trek 2008, but there was not enough action in Enterprise for the younger audience. I did begin to like the series, as many of my friends did, after we stopped comparing it to TOS and TNG. 


 


I think there was plenty of action in Enterprise. And it didn't contradict TOS and TNG any more than the other series did to each other.


I think the big problem with it is that is started up way too early. They should have waited a few years after Voyager ended. If they had, people might have been more willing to stick with the series when it started off kind of slowly.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

Ghostmojo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1826

Report this Jan. 07 2012, 11:54 am

[quote]


Actually, I'm Canadian.


I'm sorry for misunderstanding your post, but in my defense it can be hard sometimes to pick up on sarcasm when it's written down.


[/quote]


My fault as well for forgetting that things are often lost in the writing down of them. What was it that Churchill said? "Two great nations separated by a common tongue" !!! He was actually speaking about the US and UK but the metaphor surely applies here too. If I came across as sarcastic I failed because I was attempting offhand British irony.


Whilst we are here, I have to tell you I am pissed off that we never see any Canadian TV here in Blighty. I have heard good things about a programme called First Wave for example. I believe this is similar to The Invaders in concept and I would like to check it out. So far no luck. We gets tons of American stuff over here (the good, the bad and sometimes the truly ugly) and a smattering of Australian shows too. More recently we are getting better European things (French, Dutch and Danish) but I'm not sure if I have ever seen anything Canadian - except perhaps was Earth: Final Conflict and Due South made in Canada?


to boldy go where no man has gone before

T'adam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 103

Report this Jan. 07 2012, 4:53 pm

Quote: brian.beard @ Jan. 05 2012, 9:11 am

>

>The first three seasons were too damaging to canon. The first season had the Feringi in it for crying out loud. Borg in the second, and the third was just horrid. The fouth season was by far the best, stories that sould have introduced the show were finally told, but by then it was too late. I lay the failure of the show squarely at the feet of Rick Berman and Brannon Baga. Neither, even with the all the producing and writing experience from TNG to VOY. really knew ANYTHING about Star Trek. They were teling stories that would have worked BRILLIANTLY in a post VOY timeline after 2379. But the fans were expecting in the first season what partially showed up in the fourth season. ENT began in 2151, 5 years before the Earth-Romulan war began. Had the show gone 7 seasons, the last two would have encompassed the first two of the war and it would not have made any sence to the shows core, as the Romulans had played almost NO part in the show until season four. All of this along with lackluster support from Paramount AND the low quality of lead in shows and impending failure of UPN, ultimatly lead to the cancellation of the show. The ratings for the fourth season effectivly dubled, however Paramount was in the middle of the Viacom/CBS purchase-merger hoopla. So this was not enough to save the show, or send it into first-run syndicatiion. Each episode was costing upwards of $750,000 to over $1 million dollars to produce, depending on the episodes amount of VFX. But it all comes back to Brannon and Braga not understanding what Enterprise was supposed to be about. Introducing two new major races in a prequel and not concentrating on the TOS races and the stories about them was the harbringer that led to the early death of the series.

>Flame on!

>


 


How is having borg and ferengi damaging to canon?

Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum