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The reason Enterprise died.

JK1701

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 264

Report this Jul. 26 2012, 12:32 pm

Better yet, tell me what YOU would consider a continuity error and why, since I'm just SOOOO wrong about everything?


Ahh, Kirk, my old friend. Do you know the Klingon proverb which tells us revenge is a dish that is best served cold? It's very cold....in space.

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Jul. 26 2012, 12:36 pm

Quote: JK1701 @ Jul. 26 2012, 12:31 pm

>Fine. You win. Bask in your glory. There are no continuity errors. It all lines up in your world. Enjoy.


There is no glory.As I said, the show does indeed have SOLID continuity errors......but the ones you pointed out just dont qualify as one.


I pointed out one of ther biggest.continuiy errors the show has, but the show doesnt have much more in the way of continuity errors then any of the other spin offs.


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JK1701

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 264

Report this Jul. 26 2012, 12:46 pm

Well, let's be specific. If you have SOLID ones, let's hear them.


Ahh, Kirk, my old friend. Do you know the Klingon proverb which tells us revenge is a dish that is best served cold? It's very cold....in space.

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Jul. 26 2012, 3:06 pm

 


I'll give you a few not only from Enterprise.


Cloaked Ronmulan ships on Enterprise


Star Trek the undecovered country, Spock says klingons have no tear ducts, but we have already seen Worf with tears on his face when his mate was killed


TNG episode [tin man\ if I'm right, Data states no known  natural phenomenom can travel at warp speeds, but 200 or so years earlier Arches Enterprise encounters a neutronic wave storm, which was calld natural, that is treaveling at warp speeds.


In DS9' episode "Dr Bashier I preseume" an admiral states that Khan and the eugenic wars took place 200 years earlier , which means it took place in the 2160's, but TOS tells us it took place in the 1990s


Voyagers "the Q and the grey", we learn that the Q havent reproduced in a many a million years and that Q [the one we know best] want to be the first to do so, but years earlier in tng's true Q" we meet a young woman named Amanda and it is learned she is the offspring of 2 members of the Q


TNG Data's male cat spot giving birth to kittens

Pete1873

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 13

Report this Jul. 26 2012, 3:15 pm

Stovokor2000-A, JK1701, I think you both argue your respective points well, and I'm certainly NOT aiming to get involved here, but can't we all agree that the two of you disagree and call it a stalemate since no-one is looking for the 'Glory' of victory folks? 


I know this, when I watch Trek, I often find that I realise something I had not done so previously, or I sense a meaning in something that I haven't before, and surely, isn't it this that keeps us all going back and watching these shows - some of which we can already quote line for line - over and over again?!


It just seems such a waste to see two impressive Trek intelligencies like both of yours, ragging each other to shreds over what amounts to a "You say Potato, I say Po-TA-to" point.


Warmest Regards,


                      Pete1873

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Jul. 26 2012, 3:33 pm

[quote]


Stovokor2000-A, JK1701, I think you both argue your respective points well, and I'm certainly NOT aiming to get involved here, but can't we all agree that the two of you disagree and call it a stalemate since no-one is looking for the 'Glory' of victory folks? 


I know this, when I watch Trek, I often find that I realise something I had not done so previously, or I sense a meaning in something that I haven't before, and surely, isn't it this that keeps us all going back and watching these shows - some of which we can already quote line for line - over and over again?!


It just seems such a waste to see two impressive Trek intelligencies like both of yours, ragging each other to shreds over what amounts to a "You say Potato, I say Po-TA-to" point.


Warmest Regards,


                      Pete1873


[/quoteNO NO raging on my part, \this is just for fun for me 


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Pete1873

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POSTS: 13

Report this Jul. 26 2012, 3:33 pm

[quote]


But there is something wrong with any show if it has to wait for four seasons before it hits its stride. All that means is it has worn you (and your expectations) down to the point where you are desperate for it to improve.


Wasn't that the case with TNG as well?


It wasn't clever enough; original enough; dynamic enough (something it shared with the dire Voyager); possessed of a great lead character (ditto Voyager again); lacked a sense of purpose; had dreadful uniforms; the daft idea of a dog on board; lacked any chemistry between characters (no Kirk/Spock/McCoy thing); showed desparation by having to have a Vulcan on board; and so on.


What? Are you suggesting the show would have been better without T'Pol? She was one of the best characters!


I thought the uniforms were okay. Nothing wrong with Porthos; he only showed up in a few episodes, and most of the time he was just eye candy.


And they did have a Kirk/Spock/McCoy thing - Archer, T'Pol and Trip. That was their intention, anyway; I guess it's up to the viewer to say whether it was successful.


 


Pretty much agree with all those points Mitchz95, well said.......oh and "The Dire Voyager"!!!!!!! Would the writer of THAT comment like to step outside?! Grrrrrrrrr.........



Not QUITE memorized EVERY episodes' dialogue, but seen every episode except some DS9 and Treklife, however, it's safe to say I'm a Trekkie, I'm proud of it, and I don't care whether other folks like either the the term or the show, because I LOVE both!

Mitchz95

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1830

Report this Jul. 26 2012, 7:14 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Jul. 26 2012, 3:06 pm

>

>TNG episode [tin man\ if I'm right, Data states no known  natural phenomenom can travel at warp speeds, but 200 or so years earlier Arches Enterprise encounters a neutronic wave storm, which was calld natural, that is treaveling at warp speeds.

>


Actually, I believe that was also contradicted in TNG "Lonely Among Us" (season 1). The energy cloud encountered by the Enterprise-D was travelling at warp speed.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Jul. 26 2012, 8:20 pm

Quote: Mitchz95 @ Jul. 26 2012, 7:14 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Jul. 26 2012, 3:06 pm

>

>

>TNG episode [tin man\ if I'm right, Data states no known  natural phenomenom can travel at warp speeds, but 200 or so years earlier Arches Enterprise encounters a neutronic wave storm, which was calld natural, that is treaveling at warp speeds.

>

Actually, I believe that was also contradicted in TNG "Lonely Among Us" (season 1). The energy cloud encountered by the Enterprise-D was travelling at warp speed.


I think you are fright, and come to think of it,I think  Data's statement contradicts things we saw in TOS.


I believe that sweet smelling cloud creature Kirk encountered in his youth, and then again when in command of the enterprise traveled at warp speed.


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JK1701

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 264

Report this Jul. 27 2012, 8:09 am

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Jul. 26 2012, 3:06 pm

>

>I'll give you a few not only from Enterprise.

>Cloaked Ronmulan ships on Enterprise

>Star Trek the undecovered country, Spock says klingons have no tear ducts, but we have already seen Worf with tears on his face when his mate was killed

>TNG episode [tin man\ if I'm right, Data states no known  natural phenomenom can travel at warp speeds, but 200 or so years earlier Arches Enterprise encounters a neutronic wave storm, which was calld natural, that is treaveling at warp speeds.

>In DS9' episode "Dr Bashier I preseume" an admiral states that Khan and the eugenic wars took place 200 years earlier , which means it took place in the 2160's, but TOS tells us it took place in the 1990s

>Voyagers "the Q and the grey", we learn that the Q havent reproduced in a many a million years and that Q [the one we know best] want to be the first to do so, but years earlier in tng's true Q" we meet a young woman named Amanda and it is learned she is the offspring of 2 members of the Q

>TNG Data's male cat spot giving birth to kittens

>


The thing with Data's cat was just stupid. One episode it was a he, the next a she, so either the cat was a shapeshifter or the writer's didn't bother to pay attention. I always thought that was amusing.


As to the episode "True Q" with the young girl Amanda, It's been a while since I've seen it, but after reading up on the episode, the general consensus is they had assumed human form and the Continuum wasn't sure if she was an actual Q or a Q/Human hybrid that needed to be destroyed. Presumably, her parents had her the old fashioned Human way and not as Q and Q2 did (with their fingers haha), therefore no Q had actually procreated as a Q before. So Q would have been correct "The Q And The Grey".


And Pete1873, that's why I finally stopped. I was trying to simply agree to disagree because it's clear we were never going to agree on it. I still believe I'm right, as does Stovokor2000-A, so that's all we can do.


Ahh, Kirk, my old friend. Do you know the Klingon proverb which tells us revenge is a dish that is best served cold? It's very cold....in space.

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Jul. 27 2012, 8:54 am

Quote: JK1701 @ Jul. 27 2012, 8:09 am

>The thing with Data's cat was just stupid. One episode it was a he, the next a she, so either the cat was a shapeshifter or the writer's didn't bother to pay attention. I always thought that was amusing.


call it stupid if you like, but its a solid continuity issue


As to the episode "True Q" with the young girl Amanda, It's been a while since I've seen it, but after reading up on the episode, the general consensus is they had assumed human form and the Continuum wasn't sure if she was an actual Q or a Q/Human hybrid that needed to be destroyed. Presumably, her parents had her the old fashioned Human way and not as Q and Q2 did (with their fingers haha), therefore no Q had actually procreated as a Q before. So Q would have been correct "The Q And The Grey".


No, Q would still be incorrect.He never stated that the Q had not procreated as Q's, and even when assuming human form they are still Q..Keep in mind, at the start his plan was to have a child with Janeway, not with an other Q.So it seems he was looking to make a Q/Human hybrid the old fashioned human way.


As a matter of fact, when the Q we know and lady Q procreated they did it in human form in a human setting.The only thing not human about it was they just touched fingers.


heres some relevent dialog.


JANEWAY; Oh, you're not going to have a child with me. You're going to mate with that charming lady friend of yours who appeared on my ship.
Q;Mate with another Q? Ridiculous.
JANEWAY;It sounded to me like you and she had a very longterm relationship.
Q; Yes, but it was never ... physical. The Q are way beyond sex.
(in a dismissive manor) It's never been done.


Skipping ahead a bit


Q :Even if I wanted to mate with Q, I wouldn't know how...........It's totally unprecedented.


And as we learned in TNG's "true Q", it had been done before.No mater how you look at kit, its a solid continuity issue.


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JK1701

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POSTS: 264

Report this Jul. 27 2012, 9:20 am

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Jul. 27 2012, 8:54 am

Quote: JK1701 @ Jul. 27 2012, 8:09 am

>

>The thing with Data's cat was just stupid. One episode it was a he, the next a she, so either the cat was a shapeshifter or the writer's didn't bother to pay attention. I always thought that was amusing.

call it stupid if you like, but its a solid continuity issue

As to the episode "True Q" with the young girl Amanda, It's been a while since I've seen it, but after reading up on the episode, the general consensus is they had assumed human form and the Continuum wasn't sure if she was an actual Q or a Q/Human hybrid that needed to be destroyed. Presumably, her parents had her the old fashioned Human way and not as Q and Q2 did (with their fingers haha), therefore no Q had actually procreated as a Q before. So Q would have been correct "The Q And The Grey".

No, Q would still be incorrect.He never stated that the Q had not procreated as Q's, and even when assuming human form they are still Q..Keep in mind, at the start his plan was to have a child with Janeway, not with an other Q.So it seems he was looking to make a Q/Human hybrid the old fashioned human way.

As a matter of fact, when the Q we know and lady Q procreated they did it in human form on the bridge of Voyager.The only thing not human about it was they just touched fingers.

heres some relevent dialog.

JANEWAY; Oh, you're not going to have a child with me. You're going to mate with that charming lady friend of yours who appeared on my ship.
Q;Mate with another Q? Ridiculous.
JANEWAY;It sounded to me like you and she had a very longterm relationship.
Q; Yes, but it was never ... physical. The Q are way beyond sex.
(in a dismissive manor) It's never been done.

Skipping ahead a bit

Q :Even if I wanted to mate with Q, I wouldn't know how...........It's totally unprecedented.

And as we learned in TNG's "true Q", it had been done before.No mater how you look at kit, its a solid continuity issue.


I did not mean that you bringing up the cat thing was stupid, I meant it was stupid on the show and on the part of the writers. And as it has been a long time since my last viewing of that particular episode, I won't argue the point, as I am ill-equipped in this instance. And even on Enterprise they had the time frame wrong for the Eugenics Wars, though I don't remember exactly when they said it happened. It certainly wasn't in the 1990s, though. And it always bugged me that Kirk told Khan and then Khan repeated it in Star Trek II that it had been two hundred years since the wars when it had actually been 300 years. Not necessarily continuity, but an inaccuracy nonetheless.


Ahh, Kirk, my old friend. Do you know the Klingon proverb which tells us revenge is a dish that is best served cold? It's very cold....in space.

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Jul. 27 2012, 9:45 am

Quote: JK1701 @ Jul. 27 2012, 9:20 am

>I did not mean that you bringing up the cat thing was stupid, I meant it was stupid on the show and on the part of the writers. And as it has been a long time since my last viewing of that particular episode, I won't argue the point, as I am ill-equipped in this instance.


Ohh I understood what you meant, sorry if my reply gave you a different idea.


And even on Enterprise they had the time frame wrong for the Eugenics Wars, though I don't remember exactly when they said it happened. It certainly wasn't in the 1990s, though.


I believe you are mistaken.They may not have used exact numbers, but from what I remember, the dialog roughly indicated the 1990's as the time of the war.


And it always bugged me that Kirk told Khan and then Khan repeated it in Star Trek II that it had been two hundred years since the wars when it had actually been 300 years. Not necessarily continuity, but an inaccuracy nonetheless.


quite true, I dont think I ever noticed that one thanks


 


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JK1701

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POSTS: 264

Report this Jul. 27 2012, 10:34 am

I haven't seen the episodes of Enterprise involving the augments but like once (Alas, I have been unable to find the fourth season of Enterprise on DVD), but if they happened in the 1990s, how was it that Arik Soong and his augments were still around when Enterprise was in the 2160s? I honestly don't remember how that was explained.


Ahh, Kirk, my old friend. Do you know the Klingon proverb which tells us revenge is a dish that is best served cold? It's very cold....in space.

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Jul. 27 2012, 11:01 am

Quote: JK1701 @ Jul. 27 2012, 10:34 am

>

>I haven't seen the episodes of Enterprise involving the augments but like once (Alas, I have been unable to find the fourth season of Enterprise on DVD), but if they happened in the 1990s, how was it that Arik Soong and his augments were still around when Enterprise was in the 2160s? I honestly don't remember how that was explained.

>


Arik Soong wasnt part of the wars in the 90's, he was just a scientist [mad maybe?] from Archers time that felt the band on hument genetic engernering was wrong.


So, he got the job as the head of Cold Station [what ever number] which was a facility that stored the ungrown embryo's of thounnds of augments.


He stold a few [not sure on how many] of the embryo's and ran off.Those were the ones that grew up to be Maliki and the other grown agumernts we saw in the 3 part story.


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