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Seeing DS9 for the first time

worfsbum

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POSTS: 47

Report this Jan. 26 2012, 7:32 pm

yea, that is the first mention of the Dominion. Some say the Borg are scarier than them, but I don't see it. Dominion scared the crap out of me.


I almost wish you didn't see Voyager and Enterprise before DS9 because the sexual discrimination thing is not THAT prominent in TOS and TNG. I think Voyager spoiled it for you. lol.


Ah well, I have so much faith in DS9 that I'm not bothered. You'll like it soon enough.

michaela.lyktberg

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POSTS: 122

Report this Jan. 26 2012, 10:12 pm

Quote: worfsbum @ Jan. 26 2012, 7:32 pm

>

>yea, that is the first mention of the Dominion. Some say the Borg are scarier than them, but I don't see it. Dominion scared the crap out of me.

>I almost wish you didn't see Voyager and Enterprise before DS9 because the sexual discrimination thing is not THAT prominent in TOS and TNG. I think Voyager spoiled it for you. lol.

>Ah well, I have so much faith in DS9 that I'm not bothered. You'll like it soon enough.

>


 


Not that prominent in TOS? Every female yeoman is massaging kirks back and they can hardly move in their outfits because their asses show when they do. And the titles of the first season? Ok I've only seen the first season but please. I feel sick.


-I never realised yout thought of me as reckless, Tuvok. -A poor choice of words. It was clearly an understatement.

worfsbum

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 47

Report this Jan. 26 2012, 11:28 pm

michaela,


I think the episode he is referring to is one in which it exposes the subjection of women (ferengi women). What you are talking about is the blatant sexual discrimination of women in TOS which, I agree... is all over that series. haha.
There was not really any evidence to "free women" from that type of thing in TOS. It was just accepted.
This DS9 episode tries to deal with the inequality... which has been overdone so many times. I think that is what he's talking about. Maybe I'm wrong though.

michaela.lyktberg

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POSTS: 122

Report this Jan. 27 2012, 12:57 am

I read your posts very fast early in the morning  so I misunderstood.


 


The ds9 episodes on equality I like even though I'm not a fan of the ferengi. I didn't know its been done alot, I have not seen all TOS and TNG yet, only the newer shows. I wonder if this Jim can do a thread like this one and like the one he did in the voy forum but with the original series. That should be interresting

barnsey369

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POSTS: 7

Report this Jan. 27 2012, 4:00 pm

i only have one problem with youre reviews so far you keep saying things like "star trek already has too many episodes like this" but i dont think you take into account that youve seen voyager and enterprise already ds9 came before them and so at the time it was out star trek in most cases didnt have a lot of episodes like each other i hope you take this into consideration for the rest of youre reviews and like so many have said here already im confident you'll grow to love the show more or atleast as much as the rest im most lookin forward to seeing youre opinion of  "in the pale moonlight" considered by most to be one of the best star trek episodes ever

SnugglePuff

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POSTS: 187

Report this Jan. 28 2012, 8:53 am

I actually started doing this same thing. Never seen DS9 and I got free streaming on Amazon Prime so i've been watching a ton of Trek.

arcadeforest

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POSTS: 32

Report this Jan. 28 2012, 1:17 pm

I've been following as well, never watched DS9 and Voyager. I'm about a season ahead of you at this point.


 


Actually I'm in the middle of watching all Trek in the span of a year. I started back on August 28th and have only gone one day since then without seeing at least one episode / movie (that was on September 2nd!). To date have watched TOS (episodes and movies), Animated Series, STNG (episodes and movies). Currently in season 3 of DS9. Voyager and Enterprise will come next.

enhancesys

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POSTS: 503

Report this Jan. 29 2012, 4:04 pm

Quote: barnsey369 @ Jan. 27 2012, 4:00 pm

>

>i only have one problem with youre reviews so far you keep saying things like "star trek already has too many episodes like this" but i dont think you take into account that youve seen voyager and enterprise already ds9 came before them ...

>


Barnsey,


Thanks for joining in!


I do recognize that I watched the other shows first.  When I run across episodes that have been done before (too many times) I try to recite examples from ST episodes preceeding DS9.


Like with Voyager recently, I am really looking forward to that DS9 episode that blows me away.  For TOS, that was City on the Edge Forever or Balance of Terror.  On TNG it is either Inner Light or Best of Both Worlds or All Good Things.  In ENT it was Carbon Creek or the Expanse.  Voyager had Year of Hell though them hitting the time reset button at the end took away from it.


Hey everyone, which DS9 episode do you think will be the first to blow me away?  Which do you think I will find the best overall?  Chime in!


Jim


Just call me "Jim"!

Mitchz95

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POSTS: 1830

Report this Jan. 29 2012, 4:44 pm

Quote: enhancesys @ Jan. 29 2012, 4:04 pm

>

>Hey everyone, which DS9 episode do you think will be the first to blow me away?  Which do you think I will find the best overall?  Chime in!

>


Oh boy. "Necessary Evil" is highly praised, though I personally didn't like it. After that there's a patch of average episodes until you hit "Crossover", after which it's great all the way through "The Search, Part II".


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

TheDriver

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POSTS: 1652

Report this Jan. 30 2012, 12:30 pm

EnhanceSys, you're not going to want to hear this...


But the first episode that truly "blew me away?" The Season 5 cliffhanger leading up to Season 6 - "A Call to Arms."


However, that's NOT to say I wasn't enjoying myself all the way through up to that point: "Duet," "Captive Pursuit," "Blood Oath," "The Jem'Hadar," "The House of Quark," "Defiant," "Improbable Cause," "The Die is Cast," "Explorers," "Indiscretion," "Return to Grace," "Homefront," "Paradise Lost," "The Adversary," "The Way of the Warrior," "Apocalypse Rising," "The Ship," "Starship Down," "Hard Time," "Soldiers of the Empire," "The Quickening," "The Visitor," "Empok Nor," "Trials and Tribble-ations," etc. are all EXCELLENT episodes. (Sheesh, there are so many MORE good episodes than just the ones I've listed...)


But the point at which I was all "Holy $#&%, this show is AWESOME!!!"...? Yeah, "Call to Arms." (When Dukat picks up the baseball, and we see what Sisko has planned? Chills, brothers and sisters. Chills.)


 


I now consider the entirety of DS9 to be awesome.



"Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast."

TheDriver

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POSTS: 1652

Report this Jan. 30 2012, 12:50 pm

I should also note that I never found TNG, VOY, or ENT to be awesome.


Good, yeah. (In TNG's case, quite good!) But never awesome.


 


TOS was awesome from the start.



"Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast."

Data Logan

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POSTS: 331

Report this Jan. 30 2012, 6:19 pm


DS9 was great once it stopped trying to be TNG-like.  Once it embraced the idea that it was not a show about traveling in a starship from one encounter to another.  As you say Jim, just how many new threats and beings can come to this one station to be interesting enough, even with the wormhole attracting them?  DS9 was not about the latest weird sci-fi concept.  That's more VGR's vibe.  DS9 was not about coming up with some last-minute fix for the problem of the week, then moving on and never looking back.  That was TNG.


DS9 was about staying put and dealing with real long-term problems.  DS9 really excelled when it starting focusing on the things that made it unique and different from TNG.  You've already noted this yourself.  The episodes that deal with Bajoran politics or religion.  The episodes that deal with the repercussions of the Cardassian Occupation, or where the Cardassian people were going next.


DS9 also seems to deal with real sweeping problems.  So often on other Star Trek shows it seems like the problem of the week has no resonance in later episodes.  Even after we spend an episode saving an entire planet, we just move on and never see that planet again.  It was rare to revisit characters or places we cared about.  Even Earth or the Klingon Empire.  But on DS9 we are “stuck” with the same people and issues week after week.  It forces the show to characters to make real sweeping long-term changes.  While Picard was the explorer, constantly pushing out to learn more; Sisko is the builder.  Sisko came up in Starfleet as an engineer (even recently building ships at Utopia Planitia), then got into the command track later due to his Captain seeing the leadership and team-building characteristics in him.


The other long-term aspect of the show was the story-arc of the characters.  Characters really grow and change on DS9.  You've seen this already, Jim.  After only a year, Kira has grown significantly from the angry and rebellious freedom fighter (Emissary).  She's realized she's part of the bureaucracy now, even the parts that aren't much fun (Progress).  She's come to see that just being Cardassian is not enough reason by itself to be hated (Duet).  She's come to see the Starfleet officers she works with not as a potential invading army (Emissary) or devil and instead as dear friends ("In the Hands of the Prophets" and that great opening scene at the beginning of "The Circle").


Kira's growth has been the most noticeable so far.  But other characters have grown as well.  Nog has changed from imprisoned criminal (Emissary) to a little bit more of an eager young man. Even Jake has changed a little from a young, almost spoiled, kid who didn't want to sleep on the floor (Emissary) to a good student who seriously cares about others (The Nagus).


And other characters will have their moment to grow soon.  Bashir won't always be the stuck-up know-it-all; Dax won't remain the aloof "grandmother" figure; Sisko won't always be as stiff; Odo not always as gruff.  But change takes time in real life.  And it does so on DS9 as well.


DS9 is the "most real" Star Trek in my mind.  These characters, for the most part, have believable issues and deal with them in realistic ways.  And there's not always a silver lining at the end of each episode.  Sometimes we learn more by the failures than by the successes.


About a year ago I got my brother to watch DS9.  He'd never seen it before.  It's been real fun experiencing this great show again through fresh eyes.  He's now in season 5 and loving it.  I look forward to taking that journey with you as well, Jim.  Boy, you sure are plowing through it, though.  I think you'll be done before my brother.

enhancesys

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POSTS: 503

Report this Jan. 31 2012, 12:37 pm

NECESSARY EVIL: Fair


In this episode, Quark is asked by a Bajoran woman to recover a box left on DS9 during the occupation. Quark is nearly killed over the box and Odo tries to uncover what is happening.


There are some nifty flashbacks to what DS9 was like during the occupation. It was dark and dirty. Basically, it was a work-camp for prisoners. Kira was a big part of it.


This episode had some potential but wasted time on Rom hoping for Quark to die and the Bajoran woman acting mysterious. It could have been much better.


Jim

enhancesys

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POSTS: 503

Report this Jan. 31 2012, 12:41 pm

SECOND SIGHT: Not Good


Sisko is recalling the memory of his wife's death. he runs into a mysterious beautiful woman on the promenade. of course, she has a secret and of course she is mysterious.


The majority of this episode is watching Sisko acting distracted, Richard Kiley acting like a pompous terra-former and Kiley's wife acting like she has a secret.


Frankly, Sisko meeting a normal woman and trying to build a relationship with her would be more interesting than sleuthing around trying to figure out what is behind this woman who will be gone in a few days.


Jim

enhancesys

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POSTS: 503

Report this Feb. 01 2012, 8:32 am

SANCTUARY: Fair


This episode got off to a good start.  A ship came through the wormhole and was in trouble.  The crew was beamed aboard and given medical attention.  However, it took time for them to communicate via the universal translator.  I always enjoy first contact episodes.


It is found that a race was recently freed from their captors in the gamma quadrant and are looking for their prophesied home on the other side of the eye of the universe (wormhole) for a planet of sorrow (Bajor).  There are many ships and 3 million of this new race.  They were freed becuase the Dominion attacked their captors.


This race of people were matriarchical...though that was not key to the episode.  The crew of DS9 found a good planet fo rthem to live on but they wanted Bajor as it was in tehir prophesy.  Bajor (rightfully) denied their request to settle in an inhospitable area on Bajor.  The new race complained bitterly saying they didn't want any help in surviving but the Bajorans udnerstandably said they could not ignore suffering if it occurred and they simply do not ahve the resources to help a new people let alone their own.


The leader of the new race that befriended Kira ripped into Kira saying she wasn't a friend anymore.  That seemed rather harsh.  Ignoring the facts that the Bajorans made the right decision AND that there was a perfectly good planet for them to go to, the Bajorans and the Federation were EXTREMELY helpful to them.  They saved their lives with medical assistance...repaired their many ships...gave them a place to stay temporarily on DS9...fed them...found them a new home...and the a few of the new people tried to invade Bajor and shot on Bajoran defenders.


It all felt to ridiculous at that point for these new people to be mad.  I say good riddance.  I wonder if they will appear again.


Jim

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