enhancesys GROUP: Members POSTS: 499  |
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May. 24 2012, 6:52 pm
Data Logan, about The Ascent...you may be right about Quark being innocent but he is ALWAYS saying he is innocent. When he said it I didn't really believe it.
Jim |
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enhancesys GROUP: Members POSTS: 499 |
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May. 24 2012, 7:04 pm
DARKNESS AND THE LIGHT: Fair
There was a lot to like about this episode but it was so predictable that it is difficult to give it too much credit. This is surprising given the writing on DS9 normally being so unpredictable.
Anyway, in this episode someone is killing members of Kira's old resistence cell and taunting her over it after each kill. She knew that eventually it would be her. And she is still pregnant which adds a different element to all of it.
I have some random thoughts. First, Kira has become what I believe to be the first of the main characters to be truly likable. Even in an episode that brings her back to her resistence days she falls back on the rule of law and her faith. Of course, my favorites are Garak, Dukat and Nog but Kira just joined them and she is a regular. Sisko is getting there now that his role as Emmisary is more visible and central to the stories.
Second, the killer was a servant to a Cardassian...and is now clearly a little crazy. Yet he pulled off some sophisticated assassinations. That seems a stretch and they seemed to imply he worked on his own.
Third, I know Kira was ticked off but did a pregnant woman close to giving birth REALLY beat up 3 young male security guards? They must have trained on Kronos! :-)
Fourth, what a coincidence that the herbs being given Kira for her pregnancy just happen to prevent the hypo from knocking her out. She clearly knew that but that is awfully convenient...bit of a stretch for the story.
I like how Kira, Odo, Sisko and Dax all beamed out at the end. This obviously left the Cardassians corpse to decompose on its own with nobody to bury him!
The scene in which the lady died while being transported reminded me of the movie TMP when 2 people died while transporting on to the Enterprise.
Jim |
Data Logan GROUP: Members POSTS: 331 |
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May. 24 2012, 10:02 pm
I think Kira's conviction definitely comes across in "The Darkness and the Light". The scene you mentioned with her beating up 3 guys comes to mind, but the scene that I really liked was:
Odo has a list of possible suspects, but doesn't want to let her see it, afraid of what she'd do with the info. So, Kira pretends to be tired, let's Odo walk out of the room, them beams to his office and gets the list and then leaves the station -- all before Odo even gets back to his office. Brilliant!
Still, she was probably showing too much conviction. I mean, do you really want to go after a dangerous killer while pregnant. And I'm not talking about the handicap it gives you in any fighting you have to do. I'm talking about the danger you are putting that unborn kid in. Do you think she still would have been so gun-ho if that was her own kid, versus just a baby she's carrying?
It is interesting how on a Star Trek show, the (main) character you find most likable because of her belief in the rule of law and faith is The Ex-TERRORIST.
Just making a little fun of the issue, but I also really like Kira.
Funny thing, though, this may actually be the episode where I like Kira the least. Because she wasn't concerned about the "rule of law". If that was the case she would have just told Odo who to go after versus going herself. She wanted revenge by her own hands. And she was willing to endanger the baby (as well as disobeying orders, etc) to get it. She doesn't really come across in a good light.
Loved the little continuity nod with Furel and Lupaza showing up again, even if it was just to die.
Great seeing Nog continuing to do well in his chosen job as a Starfleet officer, and especially because he's using his unique Ferengi skill-set to do so. Pretty good for a guy that couldn't read 4 years ago.
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Kdbtrekkin GROUP: Members POSTS: 3634 |
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May. 25 2012, 12:05 pm
About: Things Past. I would have to say I liked it until the end. That scene where Kira gets all huffy puffy because of what Odo did reminds me of another final scene between them from Necessary Evil, except it's Odo who gets all hurt in that scene. Just seemed out of character each time especially the 2nd time, as it seems they would have gotten past there trust issue by then.
"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires, seek discipline and find your liberty." Frank Herbert(Dune)
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Anime Odo GROUP: Members POSTS: 163  |
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May. 25 2012, 3:56 pm
[quote]
I'm surprised you picked a quote of Odo gloating when he was wrong and Quark was the witness and not the criminal. Oh and won not one! 
 Hay Odo was right!!! Odo is always right!
"Give it up Quark, you can annoy me, bait me, even question my very existance, but in the end we both know that I'VE won. . ." ~ODO
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enhancesys GROUP: Members POSTS: 499 |
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May. 26 2012, 7:22 am
BEGOTTEN: Fair to Good
In this episode, Quark sells Odo a sick changeling baby. Odo quickly begins to care for it as well as try and begin teahcing it to change shape. He is joined by his old "mentor" played by James Sloyan.
I liked the first part of this episode as Odo cares for the "pond of goo". He talks to it lovingly at one point about how he was when he was young and it was a good scene.
When Sisko comes in to indicate Starfleet wants progress in learning about it, it is just like the TNG episode with Hugh. A young(er) version of a mortal enemy is in their midst and does not appear to be harmful. How do they treat it?
Though I udnerstand the need to go over that ground I did not enjoy the exchanges between Odo and his "Sloyan" (cant remember his name).
The ending was significant and interesting. Odo is clearly relieved to be back as a changeling but he did not like the cost. It will also be interesting to see if he misses his humanity in the future. Being a changeling will limit his human relationships...and then there is eating! Imagine what Odo thought of going to the bathroom for the first time! :-D
There is a side-story of Kira having the baby. It was mostly for fun and the common things writers poke fun at when birth is involved. However, the ending had Kira missing the baby. This could get uncomfortable.
Jim |
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Data Logan GROUP: Members POSTS: 331 |
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May. 26 2012, 8:28 am
I really loved the A-story in "The Begotten". Odo dealing with "daddy issues" while becoming a father figure himself. Obviously some parallels to the episode back when Odo raised a Jem'Hadar.
I felt that Mora was a well-developed interesting character. And, of course, as we've said recently, a great actor.
Odo's back as shape-shifter! And all he had to do to get there was "eat" a baby. Certain Odo regrets that, as you say, Jim. Wonder what the Founders think of it?
I loved seeing Odo smile. This fatherhood thing was one of the few thing (other than Kira) that really gives him joy. And that's cool to see. Too bad Kira was busy, or she and Odo could have shared the moment a little more and been like a little family.
Speaking of Kira's story, the Bajoran way of giving birth seems a little weird. Shouldn't birth be something that just happens when it's time? Not that you have to be calm to do so. Wouldn't that mean that a pregnant Bajoran woman that are in stressful situations (like being imprisoned in an Occupation) would never be able to give birth? Seems a little weird. I give them props for trying to make alien birth different, but the way they did it seemed a little illogical to me. But, hey, at least the kid isn't born from the back like the Ocampa in Star Trek: Voyager.
It seems like Kira should have feelings of separation and regret associated with having to give up the baby in the end. That was touched on here, as you noticed, Jim. And you would expect further exploration of those feelings as it would take Kira a lifetime to get over her feelings of separation. Nana Visitor certainly wanted that explored more, having just had a baby herself.
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GoldPressedBaylatinum GROUP: Members POSTS: 67 |
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May. 26 2012, 11:34 am
I saw a different side of Odo in this episode, a less gruff and more fatherly side. I always find it nice to see other sides of characters, especially the more held back and gruff characters. I think that it helps provide the show more of a base. We get so used to the characters in their normal state, so for me it is very interesting to see them come out of their "shell".
It always comes down to profit with you people, doesn't it?
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RStar17 GROUP: Members POSTS: 382 |
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May. 26 2012, 11:46 am
The Begotten was a beautiful episode. Quark's negotiating the price of the changeling was awesome. "It's not dead? Ten bars" "It's sick, fine seven." Odo naturally pays without comment too enthralled at the prospect.
Another hilarious moment is when Odo's talking to the changeling in his cup and Worf asks why. "It's not a drink, it's a changeling." Worf then looks at his drink suspeciously.
This really lets you see the softer side of Odo for the first time as opposed to the ironfisted security officer. It establishes a lot of his past without annoying backstory monologues or flashbacks too.
Odo's look of joy mixed with grief at the end is just epic. He wouldn't have wanted the changeling to die, but the changeling accepted it's fate and gave Odo his powers back almost as a gift and thanks for caring for him and trying. Odo making his peace with Dr Mora is nice too.
The Kira baby subplot... really was just a distraction from the main episode, but a lose plot end they had to cover. O'brien and Shakaar bickering was funny though. The writers just love messing with O'brien.
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enhancesys GROUP: Members POSTS: 499 |
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May. 27 2012, 8:15 am
FOR THE UNIFORM: Good
In this episode, Sisko steps up his attempts at getting Eddington but Eddington proves to be too much for him and keeps evading (and embarrassing) him.
First, I thought it was odd for the producers to replace Avery Brooks with William Shatner only to have Shatner shave his head, grow a beard and get a spray tan. I am sure everyone gets my point. WHOA! Someone peed in Avery's wheaties before filming or something.
Acting aside, this was a very good episode and the Eddington character was well written and well played.
I thought the "solution" was beyond over the top.
There were a lot of references to Les Miserables. I am surprised the writers didn't resurrect the Moby Dick theme that went over so well in Wrath of Khan and First Contact...because that is what this was. This also had some nice parallels to a very good TNG episode called Journey's End.
I liked the crew going after Eddington in a half-working Defiant. It was fun watching them raise the professionalism and make due. Though I didn't see the point to Nog's role...seemed a waste.
I hope this is not the end of Eddington and I also liked the other starship captain played by Pierpoint.
I didnt find the holo-communication to be a compelling part of the story.
Jim |
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RStar17 GROUP: Members POSTS: 382 |
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May. 27 2012, 9:37 am
This was always one of my favorite episodes, I always liked Eddington but after For the Cause you knew a grudge match between him and Sisko was coming and this was it.
You really never could blame the Maquis for taking up arms against the Cardassians after the Federation abandoned them. I can see why Sisko took it so personally, but really... what does the Federation have at stake? Sure they want to play nice with the new democratic government of Cardassia, but really... it's not like Cardassia is a strong ally to have at this point.
As for Sisko's solution well... honestly that one baffled me. Really he should have been tried as a war criminal for that one. That's the equivilent of a US Navy captain detonating a tactical nuke over an Arabian village suspected of holding an Al Qaida cell without even bothering to ask. Heck, they even have safeguards to prevent someone from doing that on such weapons. Eddington was right. Sisko allowed it to become so personal, that he was betraying his uniform without even realizing it just because he had to win at any cost. At the very least they should have demonted him back to Commander for that one since you're not going to throw the main character into prison.
Journey's End should relate to this. That is the episode that started the whole Maquis story arc. Picard and Gul Evek agreeing to allow Federation settlers(not just the Native Americans, but you see a lot of them in the Maquis ranks), to stay on their homes on the planets Cardassia anexed during the peace treaty.
As for Eddington, he'll definitely be back. Prison doesn't stop him or the Maquis. Oh and if you're that much against the holo communicator you'll be glad to know it was only used in one other episode. 
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Data Logan GROUP: Members POSTS: 331 |
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May. 27 2012, 10:32 am
In "For the Uniform" it seems like Michael Eddington is the leader of the entire Maquis now. Whatever happen to Sisko's old friend Cal Hudson from "The Maquis, Parts 1 and 2"?
Sisko's decision at the end of the episode to poison an entire planet, apparently without prior approval from Starfleet, and with very little warning to the inhabitants, is, probably not surprisingly, a very controversial decision amongst Star Trek fans. I read a discussion thread on a website just a few weeks ago where that action by Sisko in this episode was voted as one of the most reprehensible decisions ever made by a protagonists in Star Trek. (Interestingly, most of the reprehensible decisions discussed on that thread were examples of the Prime Directive being "upheld". But that's not the case here, and we don't need to go off on that tangent.)
A single Starfleet captain chose to poison an entire planet just to apprehend a single criminal -- who hadn't even killed or hurt any Federation citizens. Seems pretty excessive. Sure, it supposedly restored some balance of power because of the planet swaps that happen in the episode between the old Cardassian planet that can no longer be inhabited by Cardassians and this ex-Federation planet that can no longer be inhabited by humans. But there are so many problems with that.
First off, considering that Cardassians are humanoid, and genetically similar enough to Bajorans to be able to procreate with them without medical intervention, it seems questionable in the first place that you could even develop a toxin that would so selectively work on one race and not the other. And it doesn't hurt any of the other lifeforms or plant life on the planet. Really? Seems pretty unlikely. How sure of the effects of this poisoning was Sisko before he used it? That's quite a risk to be taking.
So then, he's going to use this poisonous (to humans anyway) substance on a planet of colonist with very little prior warning? First off, at least some of the colonists are not going to believe the warning until he actually deploys the poison. I know I probably wouldn't. This is a member of Starfleet, after all, they don't do things like that. I know I was shocked when he actually did in the episode. Plus, these people weren't generally likely to move, anyway. They are Maquis, after all. So Sisko had to have known (or at least should have known) that there would still be some people on the planet when the poison was deployed. How many of them are going to die before they can get off the planet? And that says nothing about the people that might die just because of the blind panic and crowd control issues. Did the colony even have the resources necessary to evacuate everyone? Did Sisko even check?
I definitely felt Sisko went too far. This is the single biggest example of a bad decision of his caused because he let things get too personal. The man just can't seem to step back and look at the big picture sometimes. Flawed character, indeed. Too flawed. He's a little too willing to look past his bad plan because he's distracted by his desired outcome. Too much "ends justifies the means". I like my heroes to be a little more on the side of good (ie heroic) than Sisko is. (I tend to like Kira more than Sisko for that reason. She may be a little flawed [see previous episode "The Darkness and The Light"], but she generally does the right thing more than Sisko. And it took the death of 4 of her personal friends to make her do questionable actions, while Sisko does WAY worse just because Eddington "betrayed" him [and killed no one].)
His actions being so questionable, at least, if not flat-out wrong, it's a wonder Sisko isn't arrested at the end of the episode along with Eddington. And that should probably include Worf or whoever else on the Defiant that knew about and allowed the planet poisoning to happen.
So if Sisko did get in trouble for his actions in this episode, how did he get out of it? Perhaps, even though he had made a horrible decision, he just got lucky and no one had actually died or suffered. Still, he should get in trouble for the bad decision, even if they ended up not lead to a horrible outcome by pure chance.
Maybe the Bajorans stepped in to defend him a little. Starfleet wanted to fire him. But the Bajorans didn't want their Emissary punished for doing "the Prophets' Will" or something. So the Bajorans threatened that if Sisko was fired, they would take back full control of DS9 and kick Starfleet out of the Bajoran system. Of course, Starfleet didn't want to loose control of DS9 or access to the system, so they acquiesced and let Sisko off with a warning or reprimand.
The only way I can really reconcile the actions in this episode is to say that something happen off screen. That Sisko got permission from Starfleet, that he informed his crew, that it was all an act for Eddington, that they knew for a fact that the planet was evacuated. Or maybe the poison doesn't kill right away, but only after days or weeks of exposure. That way Sisko could deploy the poison knowing that he had plenty of time to save the people, but it would still force Eddington's hand and the planet swap could still happen.
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Mitchz95 GROUP: Members POSTS: 1785 |
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May. 27 2012, 10:41 am
Quote: Data Logan @ May. 27 2012, 10:32 am | >
>a single criminal -- who hadn't even killed or hurt any Federation citizens.
> |
That's not necessarily correct - Eddington led a raid on the USS Malinche, which may have killed or injured some of its crew.
I agree with the rest of that analysis, though. Sisko was way out of line. And I'm surprised the other crew members were totally okay with it - Dax even made a joke about how she "liked it when the bad guy wins".
Jim, I think you'll love the next two episodes. Great Garak stories. 
"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau
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worfsbum GROUP: Members POSTS: 47 |
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May. 27 2012, 10:58 am
While I also agree with the consensus that Sisko acted out of line (and I agree that the other crew members should have been reprimanded somehow) I think Eddington is getting too much credit for not doing anything wrong.
It was afterall Eddington who was playing with the destiny of the Maquis colonists and Sisko's temper. He was the one who was pushing Sisko's buttons and basically daring him NOT to nuke the planet.
I'm sure the Maquis inhabitants would have loved Eddington playing "God" with their lives like that (sarcasm.)
Still, Sisko nuking the planet seemed retarded. So I agree, in order for the episode to make more sense, we have to assume extra resolution happened off screen.
Eddington is the kid on the playground who harasses you when the teacher isn't looking. He had the nukes coming to him... So while I was surprised that Sisko nuked the planet in anger, I sympathized with his rage against Eddington.
I really like Eddington, I think he plays that character well (the annoying schoolyard kid) which is why I like the episode.
7 of 9? How about 10 out of 10!
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stovokor2000-A GROUP: Members POSTS: 1807  |
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May. 27 2012, 10:58 am
Quote: Data Logan @ May. 27 2012, 10:32 am | >Whatever happen to Sisko's old friend Cal Hudson from "The Maquis, Parts 1 and 2"? |
do you want the answer to that question or do you want to find out by watching?
But there are so many problems with that. First off, considering that Cardassians are humanoid, and genetically similar enough to Bajorans to be able to procreate with them without medical intervention, it seems questionable in the first place that you could even develop a toxin that would so selectively work on one race and not the other.
Dont forget that Cardasians, Humans, Klingons and Vulcan/Romulans all have a common ancestor.
How many of them are going to die before they can get off the planet?
I do believe they said the poision was dasmaging to the atmosphere, rending the planet un-inhabitable to humans.Seems to me that such an effect wouldnt force the people to leave for at least a few hours.
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