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Seeing DS9 for the first time

enhancesys

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POSTS: 503

Report this Dec. 25 2011, 10:57 am

Hello,


This is Jim.  Some of you may know me through a similar topic in the Voyager forum (Seeing Voyager for the first time).


For those who don't know me...I'm in my late 40's and grew up on the original series.  I loved it.  Then along came TNG and I loved it as well.  It was different.  It had greater production quality but also took fewer chances.  I think that is why their movies did not fair as well.


By the time TNG was coming to an end, between TNG and the movies, I needed a break from Trek.  I think that is why I watched DS9 for some of the first season and then just lost track.  I also didn't like the premise or the characters very much.  To me, the Enterprise is just as important a character as the actors.  Plus, they were a space station.  They didn't go anywhere!  ...and it wasn't even their space station but an abandoned Cardassian one!  So, I never saw DS9.


The same thing happened to me with Voyager.  I never connected with the characters and equated it to "Lost in Space".  So, I watched a little of Voyager and then gave up on it.


When Enterprise came around I hadn't had a lot of Trek for a while and watched it.  I loved the concept, the charcters and the ship.  Still, season 1 writing was not great.  Season 2 was better and Season 3 had me on the edge of my seat.  Season 4 was also good.  I am a big ENT fan.


I've read a lot of the books.  The Destiny trilogy was stunning and explained where the Borg came from.  I also play the games such as Empires at War, Starfleet Command III and Legacy.  My kids just got me Starfleet Command I.  I pretty much like all things Trek.


Anyway, in June of this year I decided I was going to watch Voyager all the way through...whether I liked it or not.  I documented my "voyage" on the Voyager board.  Yanks visited once in a while to lend valuable perspective.  I am glad I did it. 


Though I didn't come to love Voyager like the other shows I did learn to appreciate it.  My favorite episodes from that show were probably Year of Hell, Living Witness and Distant Origin.  Jerii Ryan was brilliant as Seven of Nine.  Though certainly not the worst finale in Trekdom, Endgame was no All Good Things (but at least it also was not a Turnabout Intruder or a These are the Voyages).


So!  It is now time for me to see DS9.  I've heard it came to be a very strong Trek series in later years.  Again, none of the characters grabbed me before.  Sisko seemed very stiff and Kira was cranky.


I saw a Voyager episode every day for 6 months in my review of that show.  I also saw it on my computer.  I will be viewing DS9 less often and on my new tv via Netflix.  That should give me a better experience.  My opinion of Voyager may have suffered from seeing it so much so fast and on a computer.


Please join in and help me out and lend your opinions.  Tell me what perspective you'd like me to provide.  I am not a creative writer so I need your help!


Jim

Reedworftripparis

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POSTS: 4158

Report this Dec. 25 2011, 3:26 pm

I read and commented on your Voyager journey. I mirror you in some ways. I was brought up on TOS though in syndication and originally I hated it. I was about 7 or 8 and my dad had to watch it in reruns even though he watched it when it was first on and I could not understand why. Later on in the summer of 86, at midnight on a local NY station, they played TOS from beginning to end and I gave it a chance and LOVED it. Guess I just needed to be a bit older to watch it and enjoy it. TNG came out in 87 and first season I was so into TOS I did not embrace it but by season 2 I enjoyed it. I watched DS9 from day 1 as well as Voyager and then when Enterprise came out watched a few episodes and did not like it. It has now become my favorite of those 5, TNG being second. I would guess the other 3 are lumped together and depending on the mood I pick from there.


That being said....the first season of DS9 I was not crazy about. I like you felt there was no adventure, they were on a strange space station and it just didn't do it for me. But it got much much better as the years went on. I loved Dax from the beginning. Her character was the most interesting. I did like O'Brien being there, making it feel a bit like "home" to me. Once Worf got there, I was in heaven. Worf is my favorite character.


I look forward to hearing what your opinions are about it as you go thru each episode. I mostly agreed with you with  your Voyager thoughts though I think I liked the series as a whole more than you did by what you stated here. Enjoy!


"Reed Alert, that's not bad"...Malcolm Reed

enhancesys

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 503

Report this Dec. 27 2011, 8:53 am

EMISSARY: Good


I saw someone else label their episode reviews this way and it was very convenient. I am flattering that person by blatantly stealing their idea. I am adding an overall review which will read either Great (like City on the Edge of Forever), Good (like Doomsday Machine), Fair (like By Any Other Name), Not Good (like Patterns of Force) and Terrible (like Turnabout Intruder).


I've generally liked the initial episodes of Star trek series and this one did not disappoint. Focusing on just this episode, I liked how they tied together Bajor, the space station, Sisko, the wormhole, the Cardassians and the celestial temple. A well thought-out story. I wont go into the major series issues I dislike, such as this being based on a space station.


The opening scenes were excellent showing the battle at Wolf-359 and how it shapes the world of Sisko.I just thought Avery Brooks' performacne was too extreme. I didn't buy his anger at Picard. He should have easily known Picard was a victim and not an enemy. Then, he flips completelya round at the end and is nice and conciliatory to Picard. If I was Picard I would have shoved him out an airlock.


Kira was just angry. I hope she isn't like that the whole way through. I understand it having lived under an occupying force but I just had to deal with Torres from Voyager for 7 seasons of episodes. I've had enough anger for a while.


Dr Bashir has too much raging hormones and seems a bit immature. Dax is solid and very attractive. Odo also seems angry. Quark is funny but I've never liked the Ferengi look...too over the top. Obrien is perfect in his role and Keiko as well.


I liked this episode and it does set up a nice arc for the series. It just seemed the scenes in the wormhole kind of ended and didn't come to a conclusion...just that it is ok to use the wormhole...despite the issue it cause the inhabitants.


A good start.


Jim

enhancesys

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POSTS: 503

Report this Dec. 27 2011, 12:34 pm

A MAN ALONE: Fair


In this episode Odo is framed by someone from his past. I didn't find this to be a bad episode but just not a lot happened. Nobody ever thought Odo actually did it. However, you get to know a little bit more about Odo.


If this were Season 2 or 3 then I would have rated this episode lower...just not much story but what was there was decently executed.


Jim

enhancesys

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Report this Dec. 28 2011, 8:55 am

By the way, I just noticed that StarTrek.com lists the episodes in a different order than Netflix.  In Netflix, A Man Alone is the second episode.  On StarTrek.com, Past Proglogue is the second episode.  So that I do not confuse people, from here on out I will do things in order of StarTrek.com.


It should also be noted that a DS9 episode appears in the database under Voyager.  I have no idea how rampant that issue is.  It makes me wonder if I missed a Voyager episode that may be listed under another series.


Jim

enhancesys

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Report this Dec. 28 2011, 8:59 am

PAST PROLOGUE: Good


In this episode, a man who was (is) part of the Bajoran resistance movement (an aggressive aspect of that movement) is chased by the Cardassians and given assylum on DS9.  He claims to have given up the cause with the treaty but that turns out to not be the case.


Major Kira knows him and is simpathetic to him.  Her loyalty to Sisko and the Federation is tested.  She fails at first but comes through later when she sees she has been duped by her own.


The Cardassian character Garak looks like he will be a lot of fun.


Jim

enhancesys

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POSTS: 503

Report this Dec. 28 2011, 9:03 am

BABEL: Not Good


In this episode, DS9 is suffering from lots of problems.  Then, people begin becoming incoherent in how they talk due to a left-over bio-terrorist weapon from the resistence movement.


The symptom of people babbling could have been more funny if written into the sotry right.  The way they did it, it came off as annoying.


In the end, a Bajoran doctor solved it in 5 minutes right before Bashir had days to solve it.


This episode did nothing for me.


Jim

enhancesys

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POSTS: 503

Report this Dec. 29 2011, 6:56 am

CAPTIVE PURSUIT: Good


In Captive Pursuit, a mysterious alien arrives at DS9 from the Gamma quadrant. He won't tlak about what he is doing but is likable in an odd way. He befriends Obrien and their interactions are funny and interesting.


It turns out he is being hunted as a part of their normal culture. The hunters come looking for the alien. I won't ruin the end for you.


Again, watching the interaction of "Tosk" with Obrien was the best part of this. Both Colm Meaney and Scott MacDonald (reptilian commander from ENT) worked very well together.


I thought Quark would be annoying but he is growing on me as a character.


Jim

enhancesys

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POSTS: 503

Report this Dec. 30 2011, 11:53 am

Q-LESS: Fair


This episode was "much ado about nothing".  It had lots of ingredients...Q, Vash, an auction of Gamma Quadrant antiquities, a metamorphic creature, etc.  But they just didn't add up to much.  A creature was trying to get back to the Gamma Quadrant...ho-hum.


I do find the characters to be richer in DS9 than Voyager (which I just saw).


Jim

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Dec. 30 2011, 12:08 pm

Quote: enhancesys @ Dec. 30 2011, 11:53 am

>

>Q-LESS: Fair

>This episode was "much ado about nothing".  It had lots of ingredients...Q, Vash, an auction of Gamma Quadrant antiquities, a metamorphic creature, etc.  But they just didn't add up to much.  A creature was trying to get back to the Gamma Quadrant...ho-hum.

>I do find the characters to be richer in DS9 than Voyager (which I just saw).

>Jim

>
I like when Sisko decked Q.


Q: "You hit me! Picard never hit me!"
Sisko: "I'm not Picard."
Q: "Indeed not...you're much easier to provoke."


enhancesys

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POSTS: 503

Report this Dec. 31 2011, 7:57 am

DAX: Good


This has sort have been done before throughout Star Trek...a trial to determine the nature of a sentient being.  In other cases there was a trial as to whether Data was a life form deserving of human rights (TNG - Measure of a Man and an episode from Voyager about whehter the holographic doctor had rights).


In this case, Jadzia Dax is being extradited for an alleged crime that Kerson Dax committed decades before.  Dax was quiet for an unknown reason.  So, Sisko acted as a lawyer on her behalf.  The argument was that Jadzia wasn't even alive when the crime was committed.


I won't give out the ending but I did like the episode.  The judge was very cranky bringing a little life to the proceedings.  The widow of the murdered leader played a Vulcan in an episode of ENT.


Jim

enhancesys

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POSTS: 503

Report this Jan. 01 2012, 7:01 pm

THE PASSENGER: Not Good


In Passenger, an alien ship is transporting a prisoner that is difficult to keep imprisoned (so let's move him!).  He predictably finds a way to escape and endanger the station and uses a predictable method to do so.  Alexander Siddig's acting was atrocious as the host to the prisoner's personality.


As you can tell, this episode was predictable, had horrible acting and was annoying.   Too bad.  DS9 was off to a decent start.


Jim

enhancesys

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POSTS: 503

Report this Jan. 01 2012, 7:04 pm

MOVE ALONG HOME: Not Good


Another ridiculously predictable story in which the outcome had no real consequences.  I really don't have much more to say about it.


I can now remember at least one reason why I stopped watching DS9 the first time.  They don't go anywhere!  It is like a series of "bottle" shows.  Bottle shows are generally the worst in Star Trek history.


Jim

Voyager677

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POSTS: 27

Report this Jan. 03 2012, 7:25 pm

I have never actually posted anything before,  however I was struck by your story, Jim.  The reason is because although I consider myself an avid Star Trek fan, I am not a huge fan of Deep Space Nine, Voyager, or Enterprise.  My story is very similar to yours.  I am 34 years old, and I got started with Trek because of The Wrath of Khan and The Search For Spock and eventually reruns of the original series.  I was just 10 years old when Star Trek The Next Generation debuted and despite being a little stubborn at first doubting whether a new series would work, it quickly won me over, and I watched it faithfully.  I loved those two casts and series.


Then I hit a wall.  I watched DS9 for the first couple of seasons while TNG was still on the air, but I quickly lost touch with it once the crew of the Enterprise retired from the air waves.  I was still extremely excited for all 4 TNG films.  Even though it's generally accepted that they weren't as good as they could have been, they still satisfied my appetite for Trek, and I enjoyed each of them for what they were which was pretty much extended TNG episodes that I had to leave my house and pay admission to see.  On the other hand, DS9 (despite a great cast) seemed too alien to me, not the Trek I was used to at all.  Voyager always felt like an imitation of Trek to me, but not the real thing.  I felt like the characters had all been done before (i.e. Vulcan, Klingon, Borg, etc.).  The writers weren't saying anything new, and there was that pointless lost in space storyline.  It just didn't grab me.  And Enterprise, well, I have NEVER seen Enterprise.


I can't stress enough though how much I love original Trek and TNG.  After Nemesis, I couldn't let Star Trek die, so I started reading as much fiction as I had time for.  I read the post-Nemesis TNG novels and the Titan novels with Captain Riker.  I should also say that it is not my intention to offend any DS9, Voyager, or Enterprise fans.  To each his or her own.  I, like you, caught up with DS9 later in reruns and discovered that I actually appreciated it more several years after it had originally aired.  I came to appreciate the fact that it was not a carbon copy of Next Gen, and it made the Trek universe a little bigger and a little more diverse.  That's one of the things I found interesting about the novels as well.  You have Janeway, Seven, Dax all in the stories.  It was also nice having Worf and the O'Briens on board.  Dax is my absolute favorite character.  She was incredibly original and interesting.  Now as I think about Voyager (which I've only seen a handful of episodes of) and Enterprise, part of me wonders if Trek was really worn out, or if, like you said, I was just worn out at the time.  I would like to take the time to try Voyager again.  Kate Mulgrew seems like an interesting actress to me.  That being said, nothing will ever come close to Next Gen.


 


Happy DS9 watching!  There is nothing like new Star Trek!


It knows only that it needs, but like so many of us it does not know what.

scott.johnson_844542359

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POSTS: 52

Report this Jan. 04 2012, 8:19 pm

I don't know if this matters or not, Jim, but we're not that far apart in age and like you, I grew up on TOS. Like you I stumbled onto "Enterprise" and became a big fan. Since then I've gone through and watched all episodes of TNG. I found them interesting, but not all too compelling. Right now I'm into the sixth season of "Deep Space Nine".  And now my favorite series, which was once ENT has now been replaced with DS9.


No Star Trek series really boasts any stand out actors. What held these programs together was the kisbah of each player complimenting the other.  Though I've yet to get into "Voyager", I doubt seriously that series could even come close to the compelling stories, stalwart acting and the comradery that the players, directors, producers and all the entire staff put together with "Deep Space Nine".


I think that as you go through the series, you won't be disappointed. Happy viewing.


Holmes and Watson

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