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STXII Villian

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Created by: Yanks

KelisThePoet

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 636

Report this Dec. 08 2011, 6:33 pm

I say "no," just because they'll never find someone to match the peculiar charisma of Ricardo Montalban--his stature, voice and stage presence are a unique combination, and while other actors can be equally charismatic villains in their own way, mimicry of Montalban's Khan would be a very bad thing.


Falor was a prosperous merchant who went on a journey to gain greater awareness: Through storms he crossed the Voroth Sea/ To reach the clouded shores of Raal/ Where old T’Para offered truth./ He traveled through the windswept hills/ And crossed the barren Fire Plains/ To find the silent monks of Kir./ Still unfulfilled, he journeyed home/ Told stories of the lessons learned/ And gained true wisdom by the giving. – Falor’s Journey, “Innocence”

AtoZ2

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POSTS: 1297

Report this Dec. 09 2011, 4:33 am

Why is it a lack of imagination if they decide to tell a new story using an iconic villian such as Khan but completely OK if they make a movie using Kirk, Spock, McCoy Picard, Data or any other character seen, mentioned or reffered to?


This is an idiot poll.

Pooneil

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1023

Report this Dec. 09 2011, 2:28 pm

Quote: AtoZ2 @ Dec. 09 2011, 4:33 am

>

>Why is it a lack of imagination if they decide to tell a new story using an iconic villian such as Khan but completely OK if they make a movie using Kirk, Spock, McCoy Picard, Data or any other character seen, mentioned or reffered to?

>This is an idiot poll.

>


Because people have been telling stories about Kirk and Spock since 1966, and Picard and Data since 1987. Lots of people complained about the reboot a few years ago, so it's not completely OK. Khan is a villain whose story was told in full: he was introduced and defeated. Using Khan as the villain in the new movie will probably change it from a reboot to a remake.

Blockman

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 520

Report this Dec. 09 2011, 3:28 pm

The world would be a better place without Kruge. The world will be a better place with JJ Khan!


they're going to do him...

Sexy!


the bungalo bill

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POSTS: 2308

Report this Dec. 09 2011, 6:55 pm

There is one actor who can play Kahn; the one they choose is not him.


megan512

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POSTS: 1324

Report this Dec. 09 2011, 7:25 pm

No. It's a new timeline! Isn't this why they created a new timeline, so we could have new adventures? I'd rather see new villains and new stories. That's what's going to make this reboot fun. Not Khan, not when his story has been finished.


"Captain, life is not a dream." - Spock "Can you please continue the petty bickering? I find it quite intriguing." - Data

KelisThePoet

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 636

Report this Dec. 09 2011, 9:26 pm

The way I see it, all new stories in an old franchise are derivative, to a degree, but there can be fun, derivative adventures that actually somewhat develop the old concepts; and by contrast, there can be uninspired, hollow copies.  I don't see how a remake of Khan can be anything more than a shallow copy.  No actor will be able to match Montalban.  And the only kind of story they could tell about Khan would involve a charismatic villain seeking power/revenge--no other kind of plot would make sense for the character.  But we've already seen a "Star Trek 2" about Khan's destructive quest.  Worse, we've recently seen a whole host of Star Trek movies about Khan imitations seeking power/revenge.  None of the original cast movies except Khan really used that premise, but all of the more recent movies have, with the possible exception of First Contact.  Even First Contact was more villain-centric than most of the original movies.


One of the neat things about the original Wrath of Khan was that it resurrected a character and story that had laid dormant for decades.  The next Star Trek movie should do something like that.  I'm not demanding something completely original or unfamiliar, but I'd at least like to see a premise that's different, something that hasn't been rehashed in a while.


Falor was a prosperous merchant who went on a journey to gain greater awareness: Through storms he crossed the Voroth Sea/ To reach the clouded shores of Raal/ Where old T’Para offered truth./ He traveled through the windswept hills/ And crossed the barren Fire Plains/ To find the silent monks of Kir./ Still unfulfilled, he journeyed home/ Told stories of the lessons learned/ And gained true wisdom by the giving. – Falor’s Journey, “Innocence”

trekhed68

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POSTS: 1579

Report this Dec. 10 2011, 5:36 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>Rumors are circulating that JJ & Company might reintroduce Khan as the villain in STXII.

>What say you?

>I say NO!!! They have a clean slate with the "new timeline". Writers are supposed to have a brain, dream something else up!!!


Hear, hear! I loved "Space Seed" and TWOK remains my all-time favorite Trek movie, but it's time for this new crew to have some new adventures. Sadly, I'm afraid it probably won't happen, because Hollywood is deathly afraid of anything that smacks of newness or originality.


"Those who would sacrifice essential Liberty in order to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

WkdYngMan

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POSTS: 3951

Report this Dec. 10 2011, 11:53 pm

Quote: trekhed68 @ Dec. 10 2011, 5:36 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>Rumors are circulating that JJ & Company might reintroduce Khan as the villain in STXII.

>What say you?

>I say NO!!! They have a clean slate with the "new timeline". Writers are supposed to have a brain, dream something else up!!!

Hear, hear! I loved "Space Seed" and TWOK remains my all-time favorite Trek movie, but it's time for this new crew to have some new adventures. Sadly, I'm afraid it probably won't happen, because Hollywood is deathly afraid of anything that smacks of newness or originality.


Some of you guys are getting extremely confused on this issue.  Using Khan as a character DOES NOT in anyway, shape, or form mean reusing "Space Seed" or "Wrath of Khan" Besides, how can they reuse TWOK when Kirk hasn't even met Khan yet?  I'm sure they also aren't looking to adapt previous episodes or movies as well for legal reasons.


Using that same logic you would be under the same impression that reusing Kirk, Spock, etc means that they have to reuse the same stories, etc. that the original crew went through right?  Nope.  What about all the times Q appeared?  Was it the same story over and over? Nope.


In fact, the Poll is actually very lopsided in that it makes it to where if someone votes for having Khan as a character that they are attached to the option of a remake, which again, is not accurate or fair.


So have no fear, reusing Khan (which is looking like a huge safe bet) will not in anyway interfere with your wishes of new adventures   This is also evidenced by Peter Weller being a major supporting role to the villian and the "Jungle Planet" location that we know of so far, of which these elements were not in either "Space Seed" or "The Wrath of Khan."


Thread over

LtPondwater9

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POSTS: 11620

Report this Dec. 10 2011, 11:59 pm

Null. I'm just excited to see another film to be made.


The ducks fly at Midnight.

Blockman

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 520

Report this Dec. 11 2011, 4:28 am

Quote: WkdYngMan @ Dec. 10 2011, 11:53 pm

Quote: trekhed68 @ Dec. 10 2011, 5:36 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>

>Rumors are circulating that JJ & Company might reintroduce Khan as the villain in STXII.

>What say you?

>I say NO!!! They have a clean slate with the "new timeline". Writers are supposed to have a brain, dream something else up!!!

Hear, hear! I loved "Space Seed" and TWOK remains my all-time favorite Trek movie, but it's time for this new crew to have some new adventures. Sadly, I'm afraid it probably won't happen, because Hollywood is deathly afraid of anything that smacks of newness or originality.

Some of you guys are getting extremely confused on this issue.  Using Khan as a character DOES NOT in anyway, shape, or form mean reusing "Space Seed" or "Wrath of Khan" Besides, how can they reuse TWOK when Kirk hasn't even met Khan yet?  I'm sure they also aren't looking to adapt previous episodes or movies as well for legal reasons.

Using that same logic you would be under the same impression that reusing Kirk, Spock, etc means that they have to reuse the same stories, etc. that the original crew went through right?  Nope.  What about all the times Q appeared?  Was it the same story over and over? Nope.

In fact, the Poll is actually very lopsided in that it makes it to where if someone votes for having Khan as a character that they are attached to the option of a remake, which again, is not accurate or fair.

So have no fear, reusing Khan (which is looking like a huge safe bet) will not in anyway interfere with your wishes of new adventures   This is also evidenced by Peter Weller being a major supporting role to the villian and the "Jungle Planet" location that we know of so far, of which these elements were not in either "Space Seed" or "The Wrath of Khan."

Thread over


Thread not over, don't make a mistake about it!

The poll said THE villain. Khan will only appear as a driving force


So sexy!


 


trekhed68

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1579

Report this Dec. 11 2011, 8:52 am

Quote: WkdYngMan @ Dec. 10 2011, 11:53 pm

>Some of you guys are getting extremely confused on this issue.  Using Khan as a character DOES NOT in anyway, shape, or form mean reusing "Space Seed" or "Wrath of Khan" Besides, how can they reuse TWOK when Kirk hasn't even met Khan yet?  I'm sure they also aren't looking to adapt previous episodes or movies as well for legal reasons.

>Using that same logic you would be under the same impression that reusing Kirk, Spock, etc means that they have to reuse the same stories, etc. that the original crew went through right?  Nope.  What about all the times Q appeared?  Was it the same story over and over? Nope.

>In fact, the Poll is actually very lopsided in that it makes it to where if someone votes for having Khan as a character that they are attached to the option of a remake, which again, is not accurate or fair.

>So have no fear, reusing Khan (which is looking like a huge safe bet) will not in anyway interfere with your wishes of new adventures   This is also evidenced by Peter Weller being a major supporting role to the villian and the "Jungle Planet" location that we know of so far, of which these elements were not in either "Space Seed" or "The Wrath of Khan."

>Thread over


Forgive me, but I don't think we're "confused" at all. Bringing back the character of Khan does, in fact, imply that the producers of the sequel intend to retell the story of "Space Seed" in some way. I'm sure they'll try to change things up by introducing new characters. Perhaps they intend to show us what life was like for Khan and his people on Ceti Alpha V prior to the supernova that set into motion the events of TWOK (assuming that Ceti Alpha is indeed the "jungle planet" referred to in some of the spoilers).


The point is, ST09 opened up so many possibilities for stories and adventures that are truly new to the Trek universe. Why not make a sequel that builds upon the mythology of the alternate universe in some way? What if some of Nero's late 24th-century technology somehow fell into the hands of the present-day Romulan Empire? What tricks would Kirk have to pull out of his sleeve to defeat a Romulan armada armed with 24th-century technology? What if the Klingons decided to exact some sort of revenge for the destruction of their fleet? Would that put the Federation in the position of having to defend the Klingons? What if the destruction of Vulcan--a major plot point of the previous film--set off a series of events that triggered a "falling out" with the Federation? What conflicts would that create for Spock, and how would he resolve them?


Just now--sitting here, in my pajamas--I've come up with three viable story ideas for the Trek sequel, any one of which is more exciting to me than the prospect of sitting through a remake of "Space Seed." Any one of these could form the basis of an exciting film that builds upon present-day Trek mythology, but that probably isn't going to happen. The studio, in its infinite wisdom, is going to go with the tried-and-true, "safe" play of bringing back a popular Trek adversary from the past, and the franchise--and the fans--will end up poorer for it.


"Those who would sacrifice essential Liberty in order to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

WkdYngMan

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3951

Report this Dec. 11 2011, 2:13 pm

Forgive me, but I don't think we're "confused" at all.


Not at all, implying that the inclusion of the Khan character is automatically going to be a remake and prohibits new adventures is pretty sound.


Bringing back the character of Khan does, in fact, imply that the producers of the sequel intend to retell the story of "Space Seed" in some way.


Already been stated that there will be no remake or retelling.


Perhaps they intend to show us what life was like for Khan and his people on Ceti Alpha V prior to the supernova that set into motion the events of TWOK (assuming that Ceti Alpha is indeed the "jungle planet" referred to in some of the spoilers).


Kirk banished him there at the end of Space Seed.  We're not going to see "All In The Family" on Ceti Alpha V.


The point is, ST09 opened up so many possibilities for stories and adventures that are truly new to the Trek universe. Why not make a sequel that builds upon the mythology of the alternate universe in some way?


And we will get it.


The studio, in its infinite wisdom, is going to go with the tried-and-true, "safe" play of bringing back a popular Trek adversary from the past, and the franchise--and the fans--will end up poorer for it.


I'm sure someone out there said that the Franchise would be "poorer" for reusing iconic characters for the last movie.  Hope Batman never uses "The Joker."  That franchise will be poorer for it too!

WkdYngMan

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3951

Report this Dec. 11 2011, 8:11 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>As long as it's not Khan or Harry Mudd...

>


Incorrect.  Again, reusing Khan is getting confused here with reusing a previous story by some of you.  This has been explained several times and I have no problem explaining it several times more, but for legal/royalty/right reasons they are not going to remake "Space Seed" or "The Wrath of Khan."

WkdYngMan

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3951

Report this Dec. 11 2011, 8:13 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>The vote is 9-1. I rock.

>


I would vote for Khan, but since the choice for Khan is clearly labeled unfairly in the poll and is causing clear confusion for members here I couldn't vote.

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