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Prime Kirk Vs JJ's Kirk

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Created by: Camorite

Commander_Zelkar

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Report this Dec. 06 2011, 8:30 am

Prime Kirk kicked butt.


JJ Kirk got his butt kicked.


There's a kind of freedom in being totally screwed, you know things can't get any worse.

Treknoir

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Report this Dec. 06 2011, 8:39 am

Quote: Commander_Zelkar @ Dec. 06 2011, 8:30 am

>

>Prime Kirk kicked butt.

>JJ Kirk got his butt kicked.

>


Prime Kirk was older and more seasoned. A warrior isn't born victorious, he has to earn it.


It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

guillermo.mejía

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Report this Dec. 06 2011, 9:34 am

Quote: Camorite @ Dec. 04 2011, 7:42 pm

>

>Over on the Enterprise boards there is a small debate as too whether JJ's Kirk is any different then Prime Kirk. I maintain that there is very little difference between the two of them as (to name a few characteristics) they were both Ladies men, both natural born leaders, both took the option with the most risk involved, and both preferened to solve their problems with either phasers or fists (whichever was more practicle at the time).

>In fact the only real differences between the two of them was their date of birth and thier upbringing. Prime Kirk had the love and support of his father George, while JJ's Kirk have a butthold of an uncle that could care less about him.

>So in the end do you think that Prime Kirk and JJ's Kirk were all that different from one another?

>
I have to disagree. You are doing a rather superficial conclussion. I find then to have both differences and similarities, but I wouldn never call them the same.


You mention that both fall into the fisticuff solution right away, which isn't true. JJ's Kirk falls into this bad habit as a result of his lack of experiance and youththul ignorace; Prime Kikr is often forced into the situations, only after he has exhausted diplomatic solutions and/or his ship cannot escape. For example he was forced to fight the Gorn, and Spock in Amok Time or risk the chance of having his friend die. More examples include Star Trek III and Khan in Space Seed.


Also you cant ignore the upbringging of JJ's Kirk. It leaves him a semi alcoholic know it all wasting his life till Pike shows up. Say what you will about Shatner's Kirk, but no one has accoused him of wasting his life away on a bar, ever. Not to mention Prime Kirk would have never started fighting security personal right there on the bridge when it would do him no good at all. What was his plan, beat up everyoone on the bridge then single-handedly pilot it back to Nero's course? Prime Kirk would NOT do that. Look at 'And The Children Shall Lead'...how easy would it be for Kirk to just grab a phaser and stun those kids? He didn't, he outwitted the 'Angel' while JJ's Kirk would have run out of patiance about halfway through the episode, but again that's a result of his youth.


It isn't fair to compare these two versions since they are at different points in life. Without considering the different childhoods, Prime Kirk was older and had experiance under his belt, while Pine's had barns and farm animals (I kid). They are obviously not going to react the same way. I commend Pine on his Kirk though. I believe he portrayed exactly the Kirk the script created.


"Aye. And if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon." - Scotty, The Miracle Worker since 2265.

Mugatu_for_Two

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Report this Dec. 06 2011, 1:38 pm

I would have liked to have seen JJ Kirk start off as some sort of shy introvert. A lot of kids from broken homes are like that as well. Then of course when the situation calls for it he steps up and becomes a leader. I think that would be more relatable . 


Who can relate to a  pretty boy dick head?


Who would want to?


Jesus owes me gas money.

Treknoir

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Report this Dec. 06 2011, 1:50 pm

Quote: Mugatu_for_Two @ Dec. 06 2011, 1:38 pm

>

>I would have liked to have seen JJ Kirk start off as some sort of shy introvert. A lot of kids from broken homes are like that as well. Then of course when the situation calls for it he steps up and becomes a leader. I think that would be more relatable . 

>Who can relate to a  pretty boy dick head?

>Who would want to?

>


The same youngsters who become twitterpated over sparkling, pale vampires.


 


Seriously, the bad boy trope used in movies, books, and TV is hardly based on reality and I don't think it's ever meant to be relatable. It's about the fantasy of sticking it to "da man" and getting hawt chicks. IRL someone like nuKirk would have been in jail or kept far away from leadership. The true "bad boys" had to learn to play the game before they could make their own rules.


It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

Caalma

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Report this Dec. 07 2011, 3:14 pm

JJ's Kirk is more of a rebel and an outcast. he spent his life neglected and abused, and was searching for friendship. that is why he took to Bones so quickly. And he helped everyone who helped him. probably Scotty the most. He even trusted Sulu with his life, and then he saved Sulu's life.


With prime kirk, the crew had to prove themselves to him many times. he was always on scotty's butt for something. He was also more of a lead by example type person. He would even volunteer to go in first if need be.


"Do you think it's possible for two people to go back in time and correct a mistake that never should have happened?" ... "On this ship, anything is possible."

Gabriella-Kirk

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Report this Dec. 26 2011, 4:34 pm

Quote: tribblenator999 @ Dec. 04 2011, 7:51 pm

>

>JJ Kirk was literally chasing after girls. Kirk was way more subtle and usually he chased after girls for the missions sake. There was like only 4 relationships kirk ever had. Carl Marcus, edith keeler, antonia, and ruth.

>Kirk used his head more. JJ Kirk is way too hormonal.

>Kirk rose through the ranks on his own merit. New Kirk was literally given the enterprise and had his hand held by prime spock.

>Kirk took calculated risks. JJ Kirk literally leapt without seeing where he was leaping.

>Both solved problems with fists or phasers but Kirk also had the most memorable dialogue in trek. Like in where no man has gone before.

>
All the points you made there are awesome

Beershark

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Report this Dec. 26 2011, 11:40 pm

Original Kirk was lengendary because he acted legendary.


JJ's Kirk is just a punk-ass from the midwest.


CORPORATIONS AREN'T PEOPLE! Soylent Green is people.

Ghostmojo

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Report this Dec. 27 2011, 4:17 am

Gawd ... I'm not sure I can be bothered wading through all of this again. I have made these points on a number of other threads covering the same subject.


In brief - Chris Pine was bloody awful as Kirk. It was like an amateur dramatics version of the great Trek hero. He was the single biggest weakness in that film and as such seriously undermined any way longstanding fans of both Kirk and Trek could ever buy into it.


He was a stereotypical Hollywood troubled young man caracature with a huge chip on his shoulder and was not remotely like how TOS or the TOS films portrayed J.T.K. or how Roddenberry envisaged him.


The Great Bird's spirit would be livid if he knew the liberties JJA had taken with his archetypal hero. As Beershark says, Pine's rendition is suburban American angst. Shatner's (and Roddenberry's) was a universal figure whose background wasn't that important because he was based upon Hamlet and Horatio Hornblower - not some apple-munching, faux-rebellious countryboy who liked crashing vintage cars and starting bar-room brawls...


to boldy go where no man has gone before

Treknoir

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Report this Dec. 27 2011, 10:39 am

Quote: Ghostmojo @ Dec. 27 2011, 4:17 am

>

>Gawd ... I'm not sure I can be bothered wading through all of this again. I have made these points on a number of other threads covering the same subject.

>In brief - Chris Pine was bloody awful as Kirk. It was like an amateur dramatics version of the great Trek hero. He was the single biggest weakness in that film and as such seriously undermined any way longstanding fans of both Kirk and Trek could ever buy into it.

>He was a stereotypical Hollywood troubled young man caracature with a huge chip on his shoulder and was not remotely like how TOS or the TOS films portrayed J.T.K. or how Roddenberry envisaged him.

>The Great Bird's spirit would be livid if he knew the liberties JJA had taken with his archetypal hero. As Beershark says, Pine's rendition is suburban American angst. Shatner's (and Roddenberry's) was a universal figure whose background wasn't that important because he was based upon Hamlet and Horatio Hornblower - not some apple-munching, faux-rebellious countryboy who liked crashing vintage cars and starting bar-room brawls...

>


Ghostmojo,


I blame Abrams for that and not Chris. He did what he was told and paid to do. For the life of me I can't understand why Abrams and Orci moved away from the good background scenes they shot for Kirk and Spock. That car chase scene just made me want young Kirk to go over the cliff with the car. Horrible, I know. Perhaps it was part of that making ST accessible to non-fans ideal.


ST09 is my personal favorite of all the films, but the car chase scene and the kissy in the tube after species genocide scene do make me want to slap Abrams and Orci and whoever else was involved. I'll defend almost any other scene (budgineering, Enterprise on 'roids, Archer's beagle, etc.) or redo, but those two I got nothing.


It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

Vulcan1981

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Report this Dec. 28 2011, 12:37 am

Quote: tribblenator999 @ Dec. 04 2011, 7:51 pm

>

>JJ Kirk was literally chasing after girls. Kirk was way more subtle and usually he chased after girls for the missions sake. There was like only 4 relationships kirk ever had. Carl Marcus, edith keeler, antonia, and ruth.

>Kirk used his head more. JJ Kirk is way too hormonal.

>Kirk rose through the ranks on his own merit. New Kirk was literally given the enterprise and had his hand held by prime spock.

>Kirk took calculated risks. JJ Kirk literally leapt without seeing where he was leaping.

>Both solved problems with fists or phasers but Kirk also had the most memorable dialogue in trek. Like in where no man has gone before.

>


 


Awesome points and I am inclined to agree. The JJ Kirk was enjoyable and had some of the spirit of Prime Kirk, but overall, nothing beats the original.


"Comforting words. Use them next time instead of "resistance is futile". You may elicit a few volunteers."- Seven of Nine

Beershark

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Report this Dec. 28 2011, 1:39 am

Quote: Treknoir @ Dec. 27 2011, 10:39 am

Quote: Ghostmojo @ Dec. 27 2011, 4:17 am

>

>

>Gawd ... I'm not sure I can be bothered wading through all of this again. I have made these points on a number of other threads covering the same subject.

>In brief - Chris Pine was bloody awful as Kirk. It was like an amateur dramatics version of the great Trek hero. He was the single biggest weakness in that film and as such seriously undermined any way longstanding fans of both Kirk and Trek could ever buy into it.

>He was a stereotypical Hollywood troubled young man caracature with a huge chip on his shoulder and was not remotely like how TOS or the TOS films portrayed J.T.K. or how Roddenberry envisaged him.

>The Great Bird's spirit would be livid if he knew the liberties JJA had taken with his archetypal hero. As Beershark says, Pine's rendition is suburban American angst. Shatner's (and Roddenberry's) was a universal figure whose background wasn't that important because he was based upon Hamlet and Horatio Hornblower - not some apple-munching, faux-rebellious countryboy who liked crashing vintage cars and starting bar-room brawls...

>

Ghostmojo,

I blame Abrams for that and not Chris. He did what he was told and paid to do. For the life of me I can't understand why Abrams and Orci moved away from the good background scenes they shot for Kirk and Spock. That car chase scene just made me want young Kirk to go over the cliff with the car. Horrible, I know. Perhaps it was part of that making ST accessible to non-fans ideal.

ST09 is my personal favorite of all the films, but the car chase scene and the kissy in the tube after species genocide scene do make me want to slap Abrams and Orci and whoever else was involved. I'll defend almost any other scene (budgineering, Enterprise on 'roids, Archer's beagle, etc.) or redo, but those two I got nothing.


That car scene was the worst! That vette would have been over 200 years old. They refer to it in the film as an antique.Hell it's an antique now, in that time period it's a museum piece! At that's exactly where it would have been. And it's doubtful that some 13 year old kid would know how to drive it. Just like he would not have been blasting music that was 2 centuries old.


I think tonight I'm going to go jack an overland stagecoach and blast some Mozart while I go tearing down the road in it.....


CORPORATIONS AREN'T PEOPLE! Soylent Green is people.

ChrisPine4VA

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Report this Dec. 28 2011, 10:59 am

I don't really see any real significant differences between JJ's Kirk and Prime Kirk. I like them both.

Treknoir

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Report this Dec. 29 2011, 6:52 pm

Quote: Beershark @ Dec. 28 2011, 1:39 am

Quote: Treknoir @ Dec. 27 2011, 10:39 am

>

That car scene was the worst! That vette would have been over 200 years old. They refer to it in the film as an antique.Hell it's an antique now, in that time period it's a museum piece! At that's exactly where it would have been. And it's doubtful that some 13 year old kid would know how to drive it. Just like he would not have been blasting music that was 2 centuries old.

I think tonight I'm going to go jack an overland stagecoach and blast some Mozart while I go tearing down the road in it.....


 


Truly, that scene served no purpose at all. Prime Kirk didn't just take risks for sh*ts and giggles. If they showed screwed up, but good at heart nuKirk taking up for a bullied kid or taking a risk to achieve a positive outcome, that would have made more sense.


It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

cowgirlcadet

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Report this Dec. 31 2011, 11:30 am

True, the ST09 crew isn't exactly the same as the TOS crew, but even though the details differ, nevertheless, at the central core of everything, they're still them. And most of the differences are direct or indirect result of butthead future-guy Nero coming back here and screwing up the stinkin' timeline. by the way, how ironic is it that the guy's name is Nero, after one of the most infamous and psychotic men in history?

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