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Prime Kirk Vs JJ's Kirk

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Created by: Camorite

Camorite

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Report this Dec. 04 2011, 7:42 pm

Over on the Enterprise boards there is a small debate as too whether JJ's Kirk is any different then Prime Kirk. I maintain that there is very little difference between the two of them as (to name a few characteristics) they were both Ladies men, both natural born leaders, both took the option with the most risk involved, and both preferened to solve their problems with either phasers or fists (whichever was more practicle at the time).


In fact the only real differences between the two of them was their date of birth and thier upbringing. Prime Kirk had the love and support of his father George, while JJ's Kirk have a butthold of an uncle that could care less about him.


So in the end do you think that Prime Kirk and JJ's Kirk were all that different from one another?


"What i Hate more then anything else is someone that thinks that they know everything. That must mean that I really hate myself", "Freedom is the right of all setient beings!" (Optimus Prime: Transformers), "That's on small step for man, one giant leap for mankind!" Neil Armstrong 8-5-30 to 8-25-12

tribblenator999

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Report this Dec. 04 2011, 7:51 pm

JJ Kirk was literally chasing after girls. Kirk was way more subtle and usually he chased after girls for the missions sake. There was like only 4 relationships kirk ever had. Carl Marcus, edith keeler, antonia, and ruth.


 


Kirk used his head more. JJ Kirk is way too hormonal.


 


Kirk rose through the ranks on his own merit. New Kirk was literally given the enterprise and had his hand held by prime spock.


 


Kirk took calculated risks. JJ Kirk literally leapt without seeing where he was leaping.


 


Both solved problems with fists or phasers but Kirk also had the most memorable dialogue in trek. Like in where no man has gone before.

Camorite

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Report this Dec. 04 2011, 8:04 pm

all very good points tribblenator, however i do have to point out that Prime Kirk was, at least, 10 years older then JJ's Kirk is, meaning that he has, at least, a decade of experiences that he can draw on. Heck even Picard, who can be considered the stiffest of the five captians, had a wild streak when he was at the acadomy.


Still all very good points, the first of what i hope will be many.


"What i Hate more then anything else is someone that thinks that they know everything. That must mean that I really hate myself", "Freedom is the right of all setient beings!" (Optimus Prime: Transformers), "That's on small step for man, one giant leap for mankind!" Neil Armstrong 8-5-30 to 8-25-12

OtakuJo

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Report this Dec. 04 2011, 8:08 pm

Actually they were about the same age (mid 30s or so) People just looked older in the 1960s than they do now.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

Camorite

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Report this Dec. 04 2011, 8:24 pm

actually that is pacially incorect, apon further research i have found that there was at most a 5 year difference between the two Kirks, but i still maintain that those 5 years, plus however many more Prime Kirk had in starfleet would still have made the difference. (if you doubt my findings look at the links below).


Prime Kirk


JJ's Kirk

stovokor2000-A

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Report this Dec. 04 2011, 8:36 pm

Quote: tribblenator999 @ Dec. 04 2011, 7:51 pm

>

>JJ Kirk was literally chasing after girls. Kirk was way more subtle and usually he chased after girls for the missions sake.


Just to touch on a few of your things,


"There was like only 4 relationships kirk ever had. Carl Marcus, edith keeler, antonia, and ruth."


 you really cant say that for certin, for 1 you forgot Janice Lester, theres also the blond that Gary hooked him up with that he almost marries, that character was never clearly named.


And the fact is there may be pleanty more.


"Kirk used his head more. JJ Kirk is way too hormonal."


JJ's Kirk is younger and had a different upbringing.


"Kirk rose through the ranks on his own merit. New Kirk was literally given the enterprise and had his hand held by prime spock."


we never saw those events in the Prime timeline, it possible, even if not likely, that it happened nearly as fast.


"Kirk took calculated risks. JJ Kirk literally leapt without seeing where he was leaping."


something that comes with age.


 


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Antoninus Pius

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Report this Dec. 05 2011, 3:19 am

The main difference for me is that thete was Captain Kirk. Then there was an unconvincing doppleganger. Kirk's story is over. I don't know WTH this latest thing is.

Vger23

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Report this Dec. 05 2011, 9:57 am

I think there are SIGNIFICANT differences between "Prime" Kirk and "Nu" Kirk. But unlike others, this doesn't anger me or make me want to burn down entire cities because I've experienced the ultimate in personal betrayal or some other over-reactive hoopla.


 


The fact is that Nu Kirk has some major differences from the Kirk we come to know in TOS and the following movies. But, there are two MAJOR factors that account for these differences:


 


1. There is an age difference. The Kirk we know in the time of TOS is in his mid-30's. The Kirk we see in the last film is (I believe) in his mid-20's. I don't know what kind of life most of you have had...but I'm in my mid-30's now, and I can assure all of you that I was a very different person 10 years ago than I am now. I had a different set of experiences, values, and beliefs that caused me to behave differently than I do now. I'm sure it's no different for Kirk than it is for most people.


2. There is obviously a significant difference in the way Nu Kirk was raised. He did not have his father, who we all know was a major influence on Kirk's life. To add to the equation, the figure that replaced George Kirk was (as someone already pointed out) a blowhard, abusive meathead. So...this would tend to take Kirk's life, attitudes, values etc. and skew them in a completely different direction than that which Prime Kirk experienced.


In a way, it's a different take on the Shinzon / Picard theme from Star Trek: Nemesis. However, unlike Shinzon, Kirk's experiences weren't so traumatic that it drove him to sociopathic / psychotic behavior. In fact, during the last 1/3 of the film, you can see Nu Kirk modulating some of the less-refined "raw materials" (as Picard put it) and becoming more and more like the younger version of James Kirk we would have expected.


I think it was a bold and innovative approach to take with the new film, rather than just present the stereotype hero character that Kirk was. Instead, it gave us the added fun of watching the journey the character must take to overcome the different life he lived and, with the help of his crew and his friends, overcome those barriers to start becoming the man we know and love.


 


I AM KEE-ROCK!!

2takesfrakes

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Report this Dec. 05 2011, 10:56 am

Making Kirk the Annie Skywalker of STAR TREK was
another attempt at broadening the commercial appeal
and make their Kirk seem "cool," playing him as a punk
in need of an ass-kicking, but gets ALL the girls. COOL!!!


Because, apparently, this is somehow more relatable to college-
aged and teenage fans. Bumping Kirk up to Captain from cadet-status,
just for $aving the universe - which also happens to be STARFLEET's job -
is another example of being aimed at youth (who are far-less tuned-out
to the unlikely).  But being old, Jean Luc Picard had to climb up the ranks.


I like the reboot, I really have no problem with it. But it's not as bold - or
daring - as some would have you believe. It was just made commercial. Gene
Roddenberry, unfortunately, never really had a handle on that aspect of STAR TREK ...


Treknoir

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Report this Dec. 05 2011, 11:05 am

I may be in the minority, but I don't really care if they are the "same." Sure, TECHNICALLY, they are the same but in different timelines and blah, blah, blah. I would cringe if Pine tried to Shatner his lines. I even appreciate that the stick up some Vulcans butts seemed a little looser in this iteration. I personally don't want to see them try to do what has already been done and done well.


 


It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

Treknoir

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Report this Dec. 05 2011, 11:08 am

Quote: 2takesfrakes @ Dec. 05 2011, 10:56 am

>

>I like the reboot, I really have no problem with it. But it's not as bold - or
daring - as some would have you believe. It was just made commercial. Gene
Roddenberry, unfortunately, never really had a handle on that aspect of STAR TREK ...

>


You sir, are 100% correct. More action, less technobabble, HAWT bodies, will put them in the seats for sure.


It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

2takesfrakes

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Report this Dec. 05 2011, 11:10 am

Thank you, Treknoir! You have some good points, as well ...


I, too, am HAPPY that nuTREK is not simply a rehash of the old show.


Vger23

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Report this Dec. 05 2011, 12:02 pm

Quote: 2takesfrakes @ Dec. 05 2011, 10:56 am

>

>Making Kirk the Annie Skywalker of STAR TREK was
another attempt at broadening the commercial appeal
and make their Kirk seem "cool," playing him as a punk
in need of an ass-kicking, but gets ALL the girls. COOL!!!

>Because, apparently, this is somehow more relatable to college-
aged and teenage fans. Bumping Kirk up to Captain from cadet-status,
just for $aving the universe - which also happens to be STARFLEET's job -
is another example of being aimed at youth (who are far-less tuned-out
to the unlikely).  But being old, Jean Luc Picard had to climb up the ranks.

>I like the reboot, I really have no problem with it. But it's not as bold - or
daring - as some would have you believe. It was just made commercial. Gene
Roddenberry, unfortunately, never really had a handle on that aspect of STAR TREK ...

>

>


 


I wasn't saying that the approach was "bold" or "innovative" for Hollywood, but it sure was for Star Trek.


I AM KEE-ROCK!!

Treknoir

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Report this Dec. 06 2011, 8:11 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>I think nuKirk and PrimeKirk are totally different characters with only a name in common. Oh and the captaincy of the Enterprise as well.

>Maybe its a generational thing but I just skip that scene during the Kobyashi Maru in ST09. It makes me cringe. I just was offended by this nuKirk.

>Original Kirk gained his command through a lot of hard work and experiences 'Book on legs' in the academy, working with Captain Garrovick in 'Obsession', on Tarsis and even with Gary Mitchel taking a spear for him discussed in WNMHGB. His crew respected him. This Kirk irritates me, uprsurping Spock's command by trickery, threatening to report Spock when he was on Delta Vega, the Kobyashi Maru. Shatner Kirk sorted things out like a man's man. This Kirk just appeals to the ladies (obviously not old ladies like me though).

>And is this Kirk even really a ladies man? He sure chases the ladies but Uhura wasn't interested and Gaila had lots of boyfriends. Shatner was just way cooler and charming. I can't believe Ii'm defending Shatner Kirk.

>And you know what else I like the stick up the Vulcan's butt in TOS. It makes them more alien, different. I'm  not really against Spock getting the girl but reconnecting with his father, gaining acceptance. That's not what Spock is about. Next thing McCoy's gonna be his best friend and be kind to him.

>I think nuSpock and nuScotty are different too but at least I like their new 21st century characters as opposed to nuKirk.

>However since this is a 21st century version of Star Trek this is how its got to be.

>


We'll have to agree to disagree about the stick up Vulcan's butts. I think any species that can't learn to balance emotion with the logic is (since Vulcans were not born emotionless and clearly still had feelings despite a lifetime of repression and even kohlinar) far from superior. I say this as an absolute Vulcan/Romulan stan. I appreciate the slight tweaking this time around.


I also have to disagree with what Spock is "about." Prime Spock's father was a d*ck and his mom a doormat. Great ambassador, father of the year no. And that's with Sybok AND Spock. Prime and NuSpock's struggle with his dual nature was directly attributed to his father being a hard @ss. Remember the, "so human," scene from a previous film? Yeah, mating with humans will do that. *eye roll* It was through his friendships and experiences that Prime Spock grew and healed. I always get a little peeved when folks (not necessarily you) seem to want Spock to "suffer" because that's great drama. NuSpock will still be logical, loyal, and yes, still struggle with his dual cultural identity. Let him and Sarek be great this time around. LOL


I agree that nuKirk was the douchiest douche in douchedom squared. The writers had an opportunity and even filmed scenes that would have explained the source of his behavior. But they chose that rebel with no damn cause (because not every fatherless kid grows up a misfit, ESPECIALLY in a future where economic and educational deprivation were not the norm) route.


I see it as a reversal of circumstances, somewhat. NuKirk didn't have a loving dad, and Spock made peace with his at an earlier age. I think the core essence of what made both of them good for what they did as officers and each other is still there. They are destined to be great in the ST "universe" no matter what.


 


It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

2takesfrakes

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Report this Dec. 06 2011, 8:24 am

There is no real Jim Kirk to base any kind of comparisson on.
If I'm watching a JFK biopic, I expect to see an approximation
of the person I've seen in those old newsreels. When I see Jim Kirk
on STAR TREK, I can just hope for a respectable performance from
a decent actor.


There were a hundred different ways to "reinvent" James T. Kirk and
all of them had their virtues, including the new STAR TREK's. There
are aspects of that I would've done differently, but Chris Pine's heart
is in the right place. He seems committed to the job of being an actor
and he looks the part, as well. So, I feel Captain Kirk is in good hands.


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