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Captain Sam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 151

Report this Nov. 15 2011, 5:47 pm

ok lol no biggie i know how it is trying to post on here sometimes... we need some of that federation tech


i havent been useing the quote because lately it wont let me post with a quote in it. My post just post blank....


maybe we need the traveler to send to system to another universe!

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Nov. 27 2011, 12:16 pm

Quote: lostshaker @ Nov. 06 2011, 8:59 pm

>Abrams' movie, thankfully, did not successfully establish itself to be a spinoff of the original timeline, as too many inconsistencies exist.


 


I have yet to see anyone list any solid inconsitancies that cant easily be explained.


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Pooneil

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1023

Report this Nov. 27 2011, 12:20 pm

Quote: jumpthepuddle @ Nov. 01 2011, 2:18 pm

>

>I watched Parellels I cant spell from TNG.   Concerning the Star Trek 2009 movie.  I like to think that Spock and Nero didn't go back in time into their past but in a past of a parrellel (again I cant spell) universe.  The Enterprise looked to different.   In Star Trek Enterprise in the mirror universe the Defiant was great.

>If they went back into their own past timeline I would expect the USS Relativity, Daniels or Temporal Agents to fix it.

>If they did go back to their past in their timeline then the original timeline is gone.   No TOS, TNG, DS9 and Voyager.  Enterprise remains unaffected.  To bad for the ENT haters.

>What you think?  I know this has been talked about surely many times.   I'll say I don't like 40 years of future destroyed.  The history of Star Trek.   I wonder if their is a disease a kin to Obessive Compulsive Disorder in where well it don't matter what I do something could happen with the timeline so they just stay in their quarters on their ship.

>


The original timeline is gone? No TOS, TNG, or Voyager? So what the heck was I watching last night?

Matthias Russell

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7705

Report this Nov. 27 2011, 5:01 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Nov. 27 2011, 12:16 pm

Quote: lostshaker @ Nov. 06 2011, 8:59 pm

>Abrams' movie, thankfully, did not successfully establish itself to be a spinoff of the original timeline, as too many inconsistencies exist.

 

I have yet to see anyone list any solid inconsitancies that cant easily be explained.



Why was the new enterprise so different and large? The enterprise was several years in service by the time kirk took command a well. A ship like that would take years to design, no way it would be THAT different.

In the 23rd century, all ships had their own logo. The delta belonged to enterprise, not all of starfleet.

How long did Archer live? And was he an admiral after he was a century old?

The USS Defiant was a mayflower class ship in the movie instead of constitution class.

The enterprise was originally built in san fransisco ship yards, not iowa.

That is just a few inconsistencies. What is a bigger deal are the things that just don't make sense.

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Nov. 27 2011, 6:41 pm

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Nov. 27 2011, 5:01 pm

> Why was the new enterprise so different and large? The enterprise was several years in service by the time kirk took command a well. A ship like that would take years to design, no way it would be THAT different. In the 23rd century, all ships had their own logo. The delta belonged to enterprise, not all of starfleet. How long did Archer live? And was he an admiral after he was a century old? The USS Defiant was a mayflower class ship in the movie instead of constitution class. The enterprise was originally built in san fransisco ship yards, not iowa. That is just a few inconsistencies. What is a bigger deal are the things that just don't make sense.


And differences in size and design can be explained by Nero's interferance.In the original timeline the Enterprise was built around the early or late 2240'sIn the new timeline, Nero's acrions delayed the building of the ship till around the early or mid 2250's.Those few years, and all they learned from scanns of Nero's ship can easily explain why it was "that different"


You should do a bit more research.The Enterprise wasnt the only ship or crew to use the delta as an insignia.


Who knows how long he could have lived?McCoy lived to about 140+ years and he was an Admiral at that age.And according to what we learned in the mirror episode of Enterprise, Archer lived to about 137



Nero's actions could have lead to many differences in tech and naming of ships and where they were built


please post  the rest of them, because these proved to not be inconsitancies at all.


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guillermo.mejía

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2852

Report this Nov. 27 2011, 7:26 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Nov. 27 2011, 6:41 pm

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Nov. 27 2011, 5:01 pm

>

> Why was the new enterprise so different and large? The enterprise was several years in service by the time kirk took command a well. A ship like that would take years to design, no way it would be THAT different. In the 23rd century, all ships had their own logo. The delta belonged to enterprise, not all of starfleet. How long did Archer live? And was he an admiral after he was a century old? The USS Defiant was a mayflower class ship in the movie instead of constitution class. The enterprise was originally built in san fransisco ship yards, not iowa. That is just a few inconsistencies. What is a bigger deal are the things that just don't make sense.

And differences in size and design can be explained by Nero's interferance.In the original timeline the Enterprise was built around the early or late 2240'sIn the new timeline, Nero's acrions delayed the building of the ship till around the early or mid 2250's.Those few years, and all they learned from scanns of Nero's ship can easily explain why it was "that different"

You should do a bit more research.The Enterprise wasnt the only ship or crew to use the delta as an insignia.

Who knows how long he could have lived?McCoy lived to about 140+ years and he was an Admiral at that age.And according to what we learned in the mirror episode of Enterprise, Archer lived to about 137

 

Nero's actions could have lead to many differences in tech and naming of ships and where they were built

please post  the rest of them, because these proved to not be inconsitancies at all.

Just saying "Nero's time travel made Starfleet go crazy and change their natural progression" is NOY 'easily explaining inconsistencies' at all as you suggest. It is a lazy plot device to update mostly the admittedly dated visuals. Still, you could have easily taken elements from Trek lore and updated them with less dramatic changes, such as the style of the 2230's Buck Rodgers uniform, or the windshield viewscreen.


For the sake of playing along, I want to see how these are 'easily explained' changes:


1. Checkov is born 5 years earlier.


2. Somehow Pike is much older than he was when Spock served under him.


3. Why don't the Enterprise crew react the first time they see a Romulan. I remind you they attacked the Kelvin, only Robau saw their apperance and died. Afterwards they disappeared for over 20 years.


4. Why did the Kelvin have so many non Prime-Timeline elements to it such as window viewscreens when not even Archer's ship had that; as well as the mini phase cannon-like weapons rather than two main phasers.


5. Why is there suddenly a planet called Delta Vega within viewing distance of Vulcan.


6. Why is Vulcan's sky bright blue instead or orange or reddish as it should be.

Matthias Russell

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7705

Report this Nov. 27 2011, 7:28 pm

You din't make your case with documentation that successfully overcomes MY arguments.  What other ships used a delta during the time of TOS or earlier?  The NX-01 even didn't.  Back then ships had individual patches.


How did Starfleet obtain scans of Nero's ship?  They never said they did and the Kelvin was destoryed before they could do proper scans, let alone get them off the ship as it was severly disabled during the initial barrage.  If Starfleet made changes due to Nero, why was the fleet and the Enterprise itself useless in a frontal attack against Nero's ship later?  The Narada was in a Klingon impound all those years, nothing changed with the ship itself.


One attack doesn't result in a sudden upsurge of technology, especially if none of that technology was captured.  It would also take years to integreate such revolutionary technology from 24th century Romulans and Borg, not to mention completely redesign a ship class because of it.  Materials and building methods may be better in the future, but the more complex the vessel, the more time it takes to design and the longer it will take to work out the problems in a Material Review Board process.


Maybe YOU should do more research and back up your claims.  There ARE inconsistencies.  As for the things that don't make sense, I'll save those for when you can make a successful case against these points.


Matthias Russell

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7705

Report this Nov. 27 2011, 7:44 pm

As to Archer's age, is there supporting evidence that other humans lived that long in the 23rd century? Mccoy was in the 24th. And didn't starfleet have a mandatory retirement age at that time, or was that only established in TAS which isn't canon.

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Nov. 27 2011, 7:58 pm

I'm sorry if this sounds rude, but you made no case.So, I didnt need to provide documentation.You only claimed the Enterprise's crew were the only starfleet officers to use the delta....which was incorrect.If you had done the research I suggested you would have learned that fact.


Watch the TOS episode "Court Martial"....durring the Bar scene early in the episode, Kirk and McCoy encounter members of Kirk's graduating class, that serve on other ships or stations.


These starfleet officers are all wearing the delta.Here are pics of 2 of these officers


[IMG]http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p192/sto_vo_kor_2000/Star%20Trek/496px-Timothy_Court_Martial.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p192/sto_vo_kor_2000/Star%20Trek/Teller.jpg[/IMG]

The surviving shuttles would have contained loggs and scanns of Nero's ship.Not to mention if they had any wreckege from the Kelvin.And the Kelvin had pleanty of time to launch its captain in a shuttle, they had more then enough time to do a "proper scans".

And they also had enough time to get most of the paasengers off, surly at leat one of those shuttles containbed a full ships logg.And just because they had scanns and some new tech developed from those scanns is no reason to assume that the ships built after would be very effective agaiesnt the Narada.


One attack may indeed result in a sudden upsurge of technology, and may have even resulted in new techs the original timeliner never had.It may have even lead to the delay of other techs and discoveries.Once you make a change in history, anything is posible.


And in this case,those changes lead to the Enterprise being designed and built as as more complex the vessel, that took more time to design and build.


So again, Sorry if this sounds rude,but mybe YOU should do more research before you make any claims. If there ARE inconsistencies, you SO FAR, have failed to present any.


EDIT


thr pics I posted arent showing, here are the links to the 3 named officers seen in the TOS episode I mentioned above


http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Corrigan


http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Teller


http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Timothy_(Lieutenant)


 


 


 


 


 


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stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Nov. 27 2011, 8:01 pm

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Nov. 27 2011, 7:44 pm

>As to Archer's age, is there supporting evidence that other humans lived that long in the 23rd century? Mccoy was in the 24th. And didn't starfleet have a mandatory retirement age at that time, or was that only established in TAS which isn't canon.


They never really mentioned a mandatory retierment age.And besides, even if retired, they would still be called by their old rank, so we dont know if they were active officers.


As for evidence of how long humans live, who knows whats possible


 


 


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guillermo.mejía

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2852

Report this Nov. 27 2011, 8:01 pm

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Nov. 27 2011, 7:44 pm

>As to Archer's age, is there supporting evidence that other humans lived that long in the 23rd century? Mccoy was in the 24th. And didn't starfleet have a mandatory retirement age at that time, or was that only established in TAS which isn't canon.
I would like to include 'booyah' at this point. Thank you for your time.


Live long and prosper.

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Nov. 27 2011, 8:19 pm

Quote: guillermo.mejía @ Nov. 27 2011, 7:26 pm

>Just saying "Nero's time travel made Starfleet go crazy and change their natural progression" is NOY 'easily explaining inconsistencies' at all as you suggest. It is a lazy plot device to update mostly the admittedly dated visuals. Still, you could have easily taken elements from Trek lore and updated them with less dramatic changes, such as the style of the 2230's Buck Rodgers uniform, or the windshield viewscreen.

>For the sake of playing along, I want to see how these are 'easily explained' changes:

>1. Checkov is born 5 years earlier.

>2. Somehow Pike is much older than he was when Spock served under him.

>3. Why don't the Enterprise crew react the first time they see a Romulan. I remind you they attacked the Kelvin, only Robau saw their apperance and died. Afterwards they disappeared for over 20 years.

>4. Why did the Kelvin have so many non Prime-Timeline elements to it such as window viewscreens when not even Archer's ship had that; as well as the mini phase cannon-like weapons rather than two main phasers.

>5. Why is there suddenly a planet called Delta Vega within viewing distance of Vulcan.

>6. Why is Vulcan's sky bright blue instead or orange or reddish as it should be.


You may or maynot like or agree with it, but "Nero's time travel " may have indeed caused Starfleet to change a great many things.And it does indeed easily explain THESE inconsistencies verry effectivly.I dont deny the charatazation of it as a "lazy plot device", but it is an effective one.


 


1.The attack on the Kelvin lead to different deployments by starfleet and the federation citizens, different colonies may have been settled,  greater hostilities between the federation and the Romulans are likely.


Checkov is born earlier because his parents met, or desided to have children earlier due to those changes.


Pike "LOOKS" much older to you, But that is your preception, not an inconsitancy because no age was mentioned in the film


3. Why would the Enterprise crew react the first time they see a Romulan?The Kelvin's crew already saw them and undoubtly reported their appareance.


I remind you they attacked the Kelvin, all the bridge saw their apperance when the Narada first officer demanded the ships captain come over by shuttle.


4.The design and features of the Kelvin arent an inconsitancy because we never really say any ships from that era.


5. We have vseen other planetsw near Vulcan before, but to date, none were named in a canon source.


6. According to T'Pal on Enterprise, Vulcan's sky is bright blue sesonaly.


 


NEXT


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guillermo.mejía

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2852

Report this Nov. 27 2011, 8:30 pm

I fully agree that we aren't forced to agree with each other, but half of your so called explanations are conjecture, with no real evidence.


I could easily conter your explanation on Checkov's age and say: Their parents both served on the Kelvin; they survived the attack and felt a new rush for life and completed all their starfleet goals faster so they could start a family faster. Sounds dilly but there's no evidence to go against me from what we see in the movie, so I don't feel your crearive imagination explains adecuately these inconsistencies.


There are still more things to address. For example, why are the late 2260's uniforms used in the mid 2250's? Again, you can say the Kelvin's destruction somehow changed this too, but that just because, again, silly. The destruction of one scout ship, or the appearance of one advance vessel could not make an entire fleet change from head to toe. Did Starfleet go nuts when they saw the first Federation vessel? Did they completely redesign their unifomrs when the Organians stopped a war? When the planet killer attacked, did Starfleet use it as reason enough to put 800 people on a scout ship? I don't think so.

Matthias Russell

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7705

Report this Nov. 27 2011, 8:33 pm

"Watch the TOS episode "Court Martial"....durring the Bar scene early in the episode, Kirk and McCoy encounter members of Kirk's graduating class, that serve on other ships or stations."


I can accept this wardrobe malfunction but the Delta was still not the emblem of Starfleet, certainly not stitched into the uniform pattern itself.


"And they also had enough time to get most of the paasengers off, surly at leat one of those shuttles containbed a full ships logg.And just because they had scanns and some new tech developed from those scanns is no reason to assume that the ships built after would be very effective agaiesnt the Narada.


One attack may indeed result in a sudden upsurge of technology, and may have even resulted in new techs the original timeliner never had.It may have even lead to the delay of other techs and discoveries.Once you make a change in history, anything is posible.


And in this case,those changes lead to the Enterprise being designed and built as as more complex the vessel, that took more time to design and build."


I understand this but I still don't buy it as being technologically feasible even in the future.  There was not enough time to change the ship design.  Furthermore, why was it built in Iowa and not San Fran?  Your side leaves much to be desired and is far from conclusive or even convincing.


"Checkov is born earlier because his parents met, or desided to have children earlier due to those changes."


What!?! Fail.  A different sperm during a different menstral cycle 5 years apart resulted in the same person?  This point is inarguable.


"Why would the Enterprise crew react the first time they see a Romulan?The Kelvin's crew already saw them and undoubtly reported their appareance."


Kirk's crew in balance of terror were extremely surprised at what a Romulan looks like but the Kelvin crew wasn't surprised or shocked at all at their appearance.  This is strange since the identity of Romulans wouldn't be uncovered until years later.


Matthias Russell

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7705

Report this Nov. 27 2011, 8:37 pm

And once again, IF the Constitution class was redesigned BECAUSE of the Narada threat, why didn't it fair better against it?  Further if it was designed with that purpose in mind and the Kelvin's scans were taken off the ship, why was no one but Kirk able to identify the ship?  Seems like if the fleet was designed because of a certain vessel, its identity would be made known to Starfleet personel.  Certainly Pike, who was on the Kelvin, would have been familiar with it.


 


Also, in the Menagerie, why didn't Kirk say Pike served with his father?  He said he only briefly met Pike when he took command of the Enterprise.  It didn't come up between them that Pike served with his father?

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