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Are kirk and Spock gay?

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Created by: trutrek13

denise.dion2

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Report this Mar. 29 2012, 12:42 pm

Quote: Commander Christian Jones @ Mar. 29 2012, 10:50 am

>

>of course not 

>kirk has had many relationships with women

>spock has been married

>


 


If you go by The Next Generation and stating that Picard went to a wedding...it is never mentioned it was Spock. Maybe he was married in the books with Saavik...but I just don't see anything there between them accept him being her mentor.  Fine, she helped with his pon farr..but she was so embarrased about it. There was absolutely no chemistry whatsoever between them romantically. 


Now, Jim we know he loves the ladies. He falls in love so easily...but he has used so many women to get what he wants. Either it is too escape some dire circumstance. It's fake love. It isn't the real McCoy...pardon the pun. 


Jim and Spock complete each other. A balance of logic and emotion. You can't ask for anything better.


 


Watch this vid..and you will see what a womanizer the great Capt Kirk is most of the time....and the only person he cares about is the last person in the vid.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C_GJj9q06U


I have been, and always shall be yours.

Vger23

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Report this Mar. 29 2012, 12:44 pm

Quote: denise.dion2 @ Mar. 29 2012, 12:42 pm

Quote: Commander Christian Jones @ Mar. 29 2012, 10:50 am

>

>

>of course not 

>kirk has had many relationships with women

>spock has been married

>

 

If you go by The Next Generation and stating that Picard went to a wedding...it is never mentioned it was Spock. Maybe he was married in the books with Saavik...but I just don't see anything there between them accept him being her mentor.  Fine, she helped with his pon farr..but she was so embarrased about it. There was absolutely no chemistry whatsoever between them romantically. 

Now, Jim we know he loves the ladies. He falls in love so easily...but he has used so many women to get what he wants. Either it is too escape some dire circumstance. It's fake love. It isn't the real McCoy...pardon the pun. 

Jim and Spock complete each other. A balance of logic and emotion. You can't ask for anything better.

 

Watch this vid..and you will see what a womanizer the great Capt Kirk is most of the time....and the only person he cares about is the last person in the vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C_GJj9q06U


 


He was married to T'Pring.


I AM KEE-ROCK!!

Vger23

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Report this Mar. 29 2012, 12:52 pm

^


And, as a follow-up...for someone who's supposed to be such a huge fan...I'm not sure how this would have escaped you.


And, to FURTHER my argument that they are not gay...I'll leverage Amok Time to prove my point:


-Vulcans have an enlightened and (obviously) logical culture. They are enlightened and accepting enough where homosexuality would not be taboo or something associated with shame, etc. as it is in immature societies like ours. Therefore, if Spock were gay, he would have been arranged in Pon Farr marriage to another male Vulcan, not to a woman. It would have been a non-issue!


 


I AM KEE-ROCK!!

denise.dion2

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Report this Mar. 29 2012, 12:54 pm

He was married to T'Pring


 


Oh that...that's a laugh. You expect me to believe that he loved T'Pring. It was an arranged marriage. You'd think he'd be happy to mate with his wife...


And I thought that pon farr was only cured by mating...seems to me Jim pretty much cured him of it... 


Rolling around in that sand....


 


Vger23

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Report this Mar. 29 2012, 12:56 pm

Quote: denise.dion2 @ Mar. 29 2012, 12:54 pm

>

>He was married to T'Pring

>Oh that...that's a laugh. You expect me to believe that he loved T'Pring. It was an arranged marriage. You'd think he'd be happy to mate with his wife...

>And I thought that pon farr was only cured by mating...seems to me Jim pretty much cured him of it... 

>Rolling around in that sand....

>

>


 


Look at my follow up response (as I anticipated your lame excuse) and argue that one away.


I AM KEE-ROCK!!

denise.dion2

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Report this Mar. 29 2012, 12:58 pm

Quote: Vger23 @ Mar. 29 2012, 12:52 pm

>

>^

>And, as a follow-up...for someone who's supposed to be such a huge fan...I'm not sure how this would have escaped you.

>And, to FURTHER my argument that they are not gay...I'll leverage Amok Time to prove my point:

>-Vulcans have an enlightened and (obviously) logical culture. They are enlightened and accepting enough where homosexuality would not be taboo or something associated with shame, etc. as it is in immature societies like ours. Therefore, if Spock were gay, he would have been arranged in Pon Farr marriage to another male Vulcan, not to a woman. It would have been a non-issue!

>


 


Perhaps, Spock was not sure what he wanted. Being half Vulcan and half human. We all make decisions in our lives. He decided against following the path his father set for him. 


I have been, and always shall be yours.

Vger23

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Report this Mar. 29 2012, 1:07 pm

Quote: denise.dion2 @ Mar. 29 2012, 12:58 pm

Quote: Vger23 @ Mar. 29 2012, 12:52 pm

>

>

>^

>And, as a follow-up...for someone who's supposed to be such a huge fan...I'm not sure how this would have escaped you.

>And, to FURTHER my argument that they are not gay...I'll leverage Amok Time to prove my point:

>-Vulcans have an enlightened and (obviously) logical culture. They are enlightened and accepting enough where homosexuality would not be taboo or something associated with shame, etc. as it is in immature societies like ours. Therefore, if Spock were gay, he would have been arranged in Pon Farr marriage to another male Vulcan, not to a woman. It would have been a non-issue!

>

 

Perhaps, Spock was not sure what he wanted. Being half Vulcan and half human. We all make decisions in our lives. He decided against following the path his father set for him. 


"Perhaps" is French for "I have no frigging idea what I'm talking about" isn't it?


 


 


 


That's speculation that suits your fantasies...not fact. I'm simply working off of fact. I don't care if they are gay or not. That's actually not the issue for me. The issue is "fact" vs. "bull$hit people make up." And, your belief falls into the later category.


I could base my whole fandom off the fantasy that Picard is actually a sadistic mass-murder. Yay! What fun! I can write poems about it! I can find all kinds of random little examples through the course of the series and films that I can manipulate and interpert in my own way to try to prove to myself and others that it's true. But, it's not. It's a fantasy. It's not fact.


 


I AM KEE-ROCK!!

denise.dion2

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Report this Mar. 29 2012, 1:16 pm

I could base my whole fandom off the fantasy that Picard is actually a sadistic mass-murder. Yay! What fun! I can write poems about it! I can find all kinds of random little examples through the course of the series and films that I can manipulate and interpert in my own way to try to prove to myself and others that it's true. But, it's not. It's a fantasy. It's not fact.


 


that makes no fricken sense..while Kirk/Spock has more facts than fiction...


Kirk/Spock is not something that I have made up...it has been going on for over 40 years...It is the first slash pairing....and there are many people who believe in it.....so don't tell me that I am imagining something...


 


While your fantasies about Picard being a mass murderer....for example is extremely hard to swallow...


But, go ahead...feel free to take a stab at it...NO PUN INTENDED................

Vger23

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Report this Mar. 29 2012, 1:26 pm

Quote: denise.dion2 @ Mar. 29 2012, 1:16 pm

>

>I could base my whole fandom off the fantasy that Picard is actually a sadistic mass-murder. Yay! What fun! I can write poems about it! I can find all kinds of random little examples through the course of the series and films that I can manipulate and interpert in my own way to try to prove to myself and others that it's true. But, it's not. It's a fantasy. It's not fact.

>that makes no fricken sense..while Kirk/Spock has more facts than fiction...

>Kirk/Spock is not something that I have made up...it has been going on for over 40 years...It is the first slash pairing....and there are many people who believe in it.....so don't tell me that I am imagining something...

>While your fantasies about Picard being a mass murderer....for example is extremely hard to swallow...

>But, go ahead...feel free to take a stab at it...NO PUN INTENDED................

>


I used an extreme example for effect. Again, how you didn't pick up on that escapes me.


Not sure why I'm wasting my time here. I think I absolutely killed this with the argument I made. I'd be curious to see someone challenge the rationale I've put forward with some FACTS. By the way, FACTS are not observations that we make and then interpert / manipulate to serve our own viewpoints. FACTS are truths that can be verified.


You've supplied nothing but interpertations that suit your viewpoint. While I think that's wonderful and I applaud you on your vivid and active imagination... but it wouldn't hold up in court and it wouldn't hold up in an engineering or science review...because is bull$hit that you made up.


That's not a judgement. It's just the truth. You can fantasize and play make-believe about whatever you want if it makes you happy. But, trying to pass off bull$hit as fact needs to be challenged every time...and that's what you're doing. If you can retreat and say "hey, I know it's bull$hit, but I have some inner need to pretend this is true and it makes me happy to do so"...then PEACE. We're all human beings. But acting all elitist and riding around on your high horse is going to get your butt whipped every time if your basis is not in fact.  


I AM KEE-ROCK!!

denise.dion2

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Report this Mar. 29 2012, 2:39 pm

What is the point of making my point across with narrow  minded people. 


 


 


Aurevoir, et bon debarras...

OtakuJo

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Report this Mar. 29 2012, 2:48 pm

Quote: Commander Christian Jones @ Mar. 29 2012, 10:50 am

>

>of course not 

>kirk has had many relationships with women

>spock has been married

>


Not that I'm arguing that they were -- not by any means -- but these points alone are not really proof of anything. There have been many, many, many (and no I'm not talking about gay marriage) married homosexual men over the course of history. And also there is a little thing called... bisexuality.


I still don't believe that Kirk and Spock's relationship is sexual -- in no way do very close friends have to be sexually attracted -- but having a girlfriend (or even multiple girlfriends) is not 100% disproof. Precedent!


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

padracin

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Report this Mar. 29 2012, 7:25 pm

 


"If you go by The Next Generation and stating that Picard went to a wedding...it is never mentioned it was Spock. Maybe he was married in the books with Saavik...but I just don't see anything there between them accept him being her mentor.  Fine, she helped with his pon farr..but she was so embarrased about it. There was absolutely no chemistry whatsoever between them romantically."


Gotta jump in here Denise since we discussed this extensively on another thread.  In TNG Picard says he attended the wedding of Ambassador Sarek's son.  the characters of of Saavik and Spock's half brother hadn't been developed at that point in the franchise.  And I agree utterly that there was no chemistry between Spock and Saavik. 


So Picard wasn't referring to Saavik or the brother.  and it makes absolutely no sense that its an oblique reference to an otherwise unnamed son of Sarek, the most internally consistent viewpoint is that he was referring to Spock. but married to whom?


It's a delicious mystery that's given the fans a lot of fun and scope for speculation.  If you want to think that the wedding was with another man, there's nothing to stop you........but there's no evidence to support it was Kirk


Besides........Kirk wasn't the marrying kind.


 

denise.dion2

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Report this Mar. 29 2012, 8:16 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>We've followed the whole story from the beginning, seen the REAL facts, not fancified interpretations, and do not find logic in your belief, we are "narrow minded"?

>Ask my gay friends how narrow minded I am, young lady. Even my gay male friends that are Star Trek fans acknowledge that Kirk and Spock are straight.

>How does that fit into your beliefs?

>


Well, I guess you've been hanging around with male gay friends who don't see it ...but I can tell you there are many who do see it. Someone had mentioned that bisexuality would make more sense. So, I would go with that.  We know Jim Kirk, and who's been with. Hell, if he can actually kiss a machine..which is what  Andrea was, what makes you think that a man would be so far fetched.  


One more thing...If Jim and Spock were stranded on a planet, and had to wait til the Enterprise had to pick them up, and suddenly Spock goes into pon farr...and there is no way for him to reach Vulcan...to mate. Would Jim leave Spock to die because he could never see himself in that way.


Sorry Spock, I don't swing that way..so try to hold out til the Enterprise picks us up.


 


I think Jim would do anything to save Spock. Even if it was mating with him, to save his life.    


I have been, and always shall be yours.

denise.dion2

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Report this Mar. 29 2012, 8:16 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>We've followed the whole story from the beginning, seen the REAL facts, not fancified interpretations, and do not find logic in your belief, we are "narrow minded"?

>Ask my gay friends how narrow minded I am, young lady. Even my gay male friends that are Star Trek fans acknowledge that Kirk and Spock are straight.

>How does that fit into your beliefs?

>


Well, I guess you've been hanging around with male gay friends who don't see it ...but I can tell you there are many who do see it. Someone had mentioned that bisexuality would make more sense. So, I would go with that.  We know Jim Kirk, and who's been with. Hell, if he can actually kiss a machine..which is what  Andrea was, what makes you think that a man would be so far fetched.  


One more thing...If Jim and Spock were stranded on a planet, and had to wait til the Enterprise had to pick them up, and suddenly Spock goes into pon farr...and there is no way for him to reach Vulcan...to mate. Would Jim leave Spock to die because he could never see himself in that way.


Sorry Spock, I don't swing that way..so try to hold out til the Enterprise picks us up.


 


I think Jim would do anything to save Spock. Even if it was mating with him, to save his life.    


I have been, and always shall be yours.

aavenius

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Report this Mar. 29 2012, 9:52 pm

I do not think it is an issue.  They have relations that are their own. 

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