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Are kirk and Spock gay?

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Created by: trutrek13

Marika Haliwell

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POSTS: 8

Report this Nov. 26 2012, 5:42 am

Not a chance  they are not gay at all .

Vger23

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Report this Nov. 26 2012, 8:41 am

Quote: Commandamanda @ Nov. 25 2012, 10:11 am

>

>" Finally, he was said to be "genius-level" by Captain Pike in the alternate reality (Star Trek 2009)."

>You know, I wasn't really tinking of the NEW Kirk as much as I was thinking of the OLD Kirk, you're right in that regard. Kirk of The New Movie is a genius.

>But Kirk of  STOS was not. Chess is a serious game, make no mistake; but I know young men who have mastered it quite well by their teen years. It makes sense that Kirk would be so good at "seeing ahead", due to his military training.

>But I'm falling back here, what I need to say is that though it's often overlooked, the Preamble to ST: TMP as written by Kirk himself noted that Star Fleet stopped trying to recruit geniuses. Why? When they send the geniuses out into space, they defected, colonizing planets, joining forces with alien races, etc. In order to keep it military, they started recruiting more..."stable" personalities, ones that well, weren't geniuses. I'm trying ot find his direct quote on the web, but it looks like I'm going to have to go for the book:

>AUUUGHHHH!!! it's missing for my favorite Star Trek bookshelf!!!! Must've gotten lost in the shuffle when I moved. Maybe someone else can help there...while I go look for it!

>


 


Kirk (2009) and Kirk (Prime Universe) are the same person, with the same potential. The only difference is the personality changes between them due to the fact that one man was raised by George and Winona and the other was raised without George.


The novelization of "Star Trek The Motion Picture" is not canon. No Star Trek novels are, regardless of who the author is.


Kirk is consistently shown as a highly intelligent and resourseful man. Again, just becuase he's not a science guru doesn't mean he isn't intelligent. Intelligence isn't dictated by subject matter expertise alone.


And, the fact that Kirk can consistently beat Spock in chess certainly says SOMETHING for his level of intelligence, especially when you combine it with the other factors I listed.


I AM KEE-ROCK!!

Vger23

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Report this Nov. 26 2012, 8:45 am

Quote: Leland F @ Nov. 25 2012, 10:16 am

>

>The Kirk in "The Movie" (I REFUSE to call it STAR TREK) was an immature spoiled brat who bears absolutely NO resemblance to the James Kirk of TOS! In "Where No Man Has Gone Before" Gary Mitchell described Jim Kirk at the academy as "a stack of books with legs" who likes Spinoza! Kirk not intelligent? HAH!

>


 


You can call it whever makes you happy. All that matters is what Paramount Pictures chooses to call it. It is an official, canon, story within the Star Trek universe, regardless of your personal feelings toward it.


And, the whole point of the movie is that Kirk IS different due to not being raised by George Kirk as his father. The point is to show how he starts to realize his potential and do the good he was destined to do in the universe.  


Holy crap!


I AM KEE-ROCK!!

BeamMeUpTOS

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Report this Nov. 30 2012, 11:02 pm

Quote: Vger23 @ Nov. 26 2012, 8:45 am

Quote: Leland F @ Nov. 25 2012, 10:16 am

>

>

>The Kirk in "The Movie" (I REFUSE to call it STAR TREK) was an immature spoiled brat who bears absolutely NO resemblance to the James Kirk of TOS! In "Where No Man Has Gone Before" Gary Mitchell described Jim Kirk at the academy as "a stack of books with legs" who likes Spinoza! Kirk not intelligent? HAH!

>

 

You can call it whever makes you happy. All that matters is what Paramount Pictures chooses to call it. It is an official, canon, story within the Star Trek universe, regardless of your personal feelings toward it.

And, the whole point of the movie is that Kirk IS different due to not being raised by George Kirk as his father. The point is to show how he starts to realize his potential and do the good he was destined to do in the universe.  

Holy crap!


Okay, okay, alright, let's keep it "smooth sailing" here. Leland F was only stating an opinion. I don't like the movie, either.


How is the movie considered "canon"? It's like a teenager's fanfic gone wrong! XD


 


"Mankind has no need for gods. We find the One quite adequate." —James T. Kirk

xXLadyDataXx

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Report this Dec. 01 2012, 11:14 pm

Seriously? I thought I've seen this question asked for multiple of times on here on different threads.


 


Anyways the answer is no because if they were gay they would obviosly be in a boyfriend+ boyfriend relationship with each other. Since Gene Rodenberr, the creator of Star Trek,  never intended to make Spock and Kirk gay that means that they were NEVER gay to begin with.


I honestly don't know how people can think that Spock and Kirk are a gey couple unless it's to fullfil some kind of fetish for their favorite characters


OtakuJo

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Report this Dec. 02 2012, 12:20 am

Regarding "canon":


It's all fiction! Therefore, "canon" for you can be whatever you want it to be at the time. However as far as consistency goes, canon is all the films and series except for TAS, as others have mentioned. That said, there is a tendency to view "canon" almost as the quasi-religious edict that the word implies. There are so many irregularities in the overall consistency of Star Trek (not so many, which speaks well of the writers' ability to keep it all together!) and even quite a few shout-outs to books etc in the onscreen series, that the line is not really that clear.


"My Star Trek" is not "Your Star Trek"... and that's okay!


 


Regarding Kirk & Spock:


There is a tendency for people to assume that the closest two people can be is if they are lovers. Of course part of this is the evolutionary imperative to mate -- and I guess this would tend to fuel the general misunderstanding that there is nothing closer than a sexual relationship.


However, I do believe that Kirk & Spock's relationship, on an emotional level, is closer than that of two lovers. Which is not to say that they are in any way romantically involved -- but that we need to allow for the possibility that a platonic relationship can go beyond romantic attraction.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

Leland F

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Report this Dec. 02 2012, 1:28 pm

I am so tired of ths debate. There's nothing wrong with fantasizing (hell, thats what science fiction is all about), I've been known to fantasize about a few STAR TREK females myself. The K/S people have been around since at least the 70's, probably since the very beginning, and we're not going to change their minds any more than we can change their sexual orientation. And we shouldn't! That's what the LGBT Rights Movement is all about.  Are there really Star Trek fans out there who are SO far to the right that they want to convert the K/S fans like those right-wing fundamentalist nuts who picket funerals and tell gays that they're going to hell?  If so, I don't think they have any place in Star Trek fandom! This thread has been fun, but I have the feeling it could turn into something very nasty, so everybody just needs to chill out before someone's feelings get hurt or worse! Remember IDIC!

Sehlat123

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Report this Dec. 02 2012, 1:44 pm

Quote: Leland F @ Dec. 02 2012, 1:28 pm

>

>I am so tired of ths debate. There's nothing wrong with fantasizing (hell, thats what science fiction is all about), I've been known to fantasize about a few STAR TREK females myself. The K/S people have been around since at least the 70's, probably since the very beginning, and we're not going to change their minds any more than we can change their sexual orientation. And we shouldn't! That's what the LGBT Rights Movement is all about.  Are there really Star Trek fans out there who are SO far to the right that they want to convert the K/S fans like those right-wing fundamentalist nuts who picket funerals and tell gays that they're going to hell?  If so, I don't think they have any place in Star Trek fandom! This thread has been fun, but I have the feeling it could turn into something very nasty, so everybody just needs to chill out before someone's feelings get hurt or worse! Remember IDIC!

>


That may be true, but why are they fantisizing about to characters being gay, when they are obviously not? Is some perverted guy feels attracted to Kirk or Spock, I really don't care. But why say something stupid like saying their gay? Remember: it's illogical.


"Borg. Sounds Swedish."

Leland F

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Report this Dec. 02 2012, 2:03 pm

Sehlat, gays fantasize about Kirk and Spock for the same reason you and I fantasize about Yeoman Rand, Lt. Uhura or a Playboy model. It may be illogical but it's not stupid to them. And perversion is in the eyes of the beholder.

Commandamanda

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Report this Dec. 02 2012, 4:47 pm

You know, all this talk about canon really makes me wonder....I have my own personal opinions on what Star Trek Canon is, regarless of the fact that it's only supposed to be what was on the screen.


I take exception - some of the animated series - such as "Yesterday's Son" were pivotal in my understanding of Spock. I have no doubt that the new movie snapped up a bit of it, even though Amanda spoke of Spock's fights with other little boys and Spock Selhat in "Journey To Babel", it was never fleshed out. You cannot imagine the joy it gave me to see it put on the screen, to see something that I'd only imagined in my head, right there in front of me, more real than my own thoughts, finally fully brought into canon.


Spock for me is the miserable deux-ex-machina that must fight on, do what he can, and hopefully never fail. I almost hurt for him seeing him fail in saving Romulus, in the new movie. And to see Spock voluntarily go to his knees??????!!! I have only found one other instance of it, in a horrible novel by Sandra Marshak and Myrna Culbreath - I won't even name it here. Spock goes to his knees to beg for Kirk's life, and frankly, I never expected to see it in my lifetime.


But I'm losing my point. Spock was perfect...or at least he tried his very best to be for all of his crewmates. He literally could never lose, or else lose the universe itself.


Kirk - though I accepted him for what he was as a child, I have not come to terms with him as an adult yet. I still cannot grasp the sexual oportunist in him, bopping every good looking alien in sight. I think it was just a thing that happened due to the sexual openness  of the early sixties and seventies. (See Woodsotck and Barbarella.) I can, however, understand his bookishness in the Academy (get there, however you must, study as hard as possible, become that Starship Captain), but once he'd made his name, and settled into his ship, made friends for life, etc....I lose him again. His lust for leaping in (where fools fear to tread) baffles me. His continually beating the odds hurts too, when in my life I rarely do.


I surmise that it's the team of Kirk and Spock, both fighting for whatever they have left (each other, the crew, The Enterprise) that allows them to be the successful, talented friends that they are.


Wow...such revalations are yet to come, imagine the next movie - we have some slight confirmation that gary Mitchell may be the aggressor - imagine the inner-journey we will see when Kirk must battle his "best friend"? And what of our new Spock, will he stand by this jovial idiot of a Kirk, to save him from himself?


 


 

Treknoir

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Report this Dec. 02 2012, 5:51 pm

LOL Still fighting the good fight, Vger? It's actually comforting to know that whenever I come back to ST.com I can count on three things: 10F will be a mess of bloviating nonsense and folks will argue ad infinitum about K/S and ST09 defiling canon, mom, and all that's right and decent in the world. Makes me feel kinda warm, actually.


It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

Leland F

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Report this Dec. 02 2012, 5:59 pm

Yes, James Kirk has his faults, but just because a man loves the ladies doesn't mean he can't be a great leader (just look at John F. Kennedy)! But Kirk didn't ALWAYS get the girl (the "WTF" look on his face when Gillian Taylor walks off in ST IV is priceless!).  Actually, if you study the episodes carefully you will see that Kirk only got laid 5 times during the whole series! Drusilla (Bread and Circuses), Miramanee (The Paradise Syndrome), Elaan (Elaan Of Troyius), Deela (Wink Of An Eye), and Odonna (Mark Of Gideon). Spock Got The Girl twice: Leila (This Side Of Paradise), and Zarabeth (All Our Yesterdays). Scotty had two also: Carolyn Palamas (Who Mourns For Adonais) and Mira Romaine (The Lights Of Zetar). Poor McCoy only had Natira (For The World Is Hollow...) By today's standards their sex lives were poor, but back in the sixties it seemed like everybody was jumping in and out of bed.  

suey1969daniel1971

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Report this Dec. 02 2012, 6:53 pm

Kirk and Spock are as about as gay as I'm JC himself so if you belive I'm JC well you are sadly twisted in the head these two men have a great and best of best friendship that I have ever seen and I say that with the greatest of respect for these two men

Leland F

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Report this Dec. 03 2012, 2:10 am

To me the episode that really shows the friendship between Kirk, Spock and McCoy is "The Empath".  It also says something about the best side of humanity as well. In many ways it shows the real message that Gene Roddenberry was trying to convey to the audience.

Leland F

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Report this Dec. 03 2012, 7:57 am

ServalanFan, I wouldn't bet the quadrotriticale farm on it!


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 

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