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Are kirk and Spock gay?

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Created by: trutrek13

Leland F

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Report this Nov. 19 2012, 3:47 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>You know that novels aren't canon, even those written by GR.

>Just sayin.

>
In my opinion, anything that the Great Bird Of The Galaxy wrote IS canon.  Just sayin'.

stovokor2000-A

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Report this Nov. 19 2012, 6:22 pm

Quote: Leland F @ Nov. 19 2012, 3:47 am

>In my opinion, anything that the Great Bird Of The Galaxy wrote IS canon.  Just sayin'.

>


So, then in your book The Wrath of Khan and The Search or Spock are not canon...........because GR once said they shuldnt be.


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OtakuJo

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Report this Nov. 20 2012, 3:30 am

Whether it's canon or not, "Hi I'm Kirk and I'm not gay" would not count as a 100% undeniable refutation.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

Sehlat123

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Report this Nov. 21 2012, 10:58 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>So Kirk's just admitting to being bisexual 

>


Okay, give me ONE TIME that even barely hints that Kirk had gay tendancies. Just one!


And Spock is a vulcan. They have Pon Farr once every 7 years, and always with someone from the opposite gender. It would be illogical to be gay, for it serves no purpose.


Your stupid fantasies are invalid.


"Borg. Sounds Swedish."

denise.dion2

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Report this Nov. 21 2012, 12:43 pm

[quote]


[quote]


So Kirk's just admitting to being bisexual 


[/quote]


Okay, give me ONE TIME that even barely hints that Kirk had gay tendancies. Just one!


And Spock is a vulcan. They have Pon Farr once every 7 years, and always with someone from the opposite gender. It would be illogical to be gay, for it serves no purpose.


Your stupid fantasies are invalid.


[/quote]


 


That was a tad rude. I have to say, I truly believed that it was the end for this thread. I hadn't posted anything since August. But, it seems it just doesn't want to die. Hell, this thread goes back to 2011 I believe...Such a heated debate about something that people feel strongly about...


Were they gay on the show...No, of course. But, if we go by subtext, what we see by a glance, a touch. I find it speaks volumes. Why is there so many stories written about Kirk/Spock in the fanfiction world? Have you checked to see how many Kirk/Spock vids there are on youtube?  


Are the fans of Kirk/Spock imagining it all? I believe everyone is entitled to express how they feel about these characters. You may see them like brothers. While others see them as much more than that. 


Jim has always had a fascination with women. He falls in love with them pretty quickly. But, most of the time he uses them for some purpose, in order for him to return to his ship. The only exception was probably Edith. He loved her, it felt genuine. It wasn't easy for him, to let her die. 


An episode where Jim has gay tendenicies...one episode comes to mind, and it is how he looks at Captain John Christopher. If you pay attention to that episode, he is all smiles. Heck, someone made a vid about how he stares, and licks his lips as he checks him out on the transported pad. 


You don't believe me...here it is...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nps1U_5fXYU


As for Spock, he wasn't interested in Mudd's women...while everyone else was...sure he had that Vulcan control going on. I will admit the connection between Zarabeth, and the Romulan Commander had potential, but Droxine and Christine, don't make me laugh. 


 


I have been, and always shall be yours.

stovokor2000-A

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Report this Nov. 21 2012, 8:02 pm

Quote: Sehlat123 @ Aug. 07 2012, 10:16 am

>It would be illogical to be gay. There is no point to it. No outcome; it is not possible to concive a child. Therefore vulcans would never engage in such an activity.

>


It would be uillogical to deny one's owns desires and inner nature.Even Vulcans that deny themselfs basic emotions do not deny themselfs love.


If a Vulcan fell in love with a member of the same sex, I'm certin he would attempt to at least see if the one he/she loved recepicated the feelings.


And kirk? In Generations it talks about how he was going to marry a lady, but then he got called back to starfleet. And he regretted it. 


your memory of that event is a bit off


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Leland F

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Report this Nov. 22 2012, 1:51 am

It's my understanding that Vulcans are able to mate any time they want to. It's only during the Pon Farr cycle that they MUST mate or die. If vulcans can ONLY mate every seven years, that would not be very good for population growth. Then again, In human females, their reproductive cycle seems to be tied to our moon (every month), but since Vulcan has no moon, their cycle must be connected to something else, perhaps the close passage of that gas giant we saw in STAR TREK THE MOTION PICTURE.

Leland F

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Report this Nov. 22 2012, 6:31 am

Yes, the gas giant or whatever it is was removed from the special edition DVD. But It's also there in the animated ep "Yesteryear".  I think that pretty much makes it "canon".  Spock was right. Vulcan has no moon. But there's nothing to indicate that it's the ONLY planet in its solar system either. Our moon was a great big lure for us to develop space travel. We just HAD to go there! It was in our nature. Now, think of how it must have been for Vulcan with that big planet coming real close every 7 years or so. Think how curious vulcans naturally are. No wonder they developed space travel centuries before we did!

reginachow

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Report this Nov. 24 2012, 11:05 pm

I wouldn't say that they were gay, seeing that Kirk kinda got with almost every female being he encountered, but more of a deeper bond. So kinda like they were gay for each other, but not gay. Think about it, the definition of T'hy'la was friend/brother/lover. Why would the word lover be included if there wasn't something.

Commandamanda

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Report this Nov. 25 2012, 6:29 am

It's an interesting question: Why in THIS day and age do people consider the possiblity that Kirk and Spock might be lovers?


When Star Trek debuted men in the military were portrayed as nothing less that absolute heterosexuals. It was unheard of, perhaps even taboo, to even think for a moment that they might actually harbor even hidden sexual feelings for one-another. Certainly there was a lot of homosexuality in the history of the military, but it had always been quietly swept under the rug.


One must recall the period of history back then - open gayness/lesbianism/homosexuality was never discussed, unless in art/poetry/literary circles - when it was veiwed as a curiosity; something that happened in "Bohemian" communities - but not in urban America, no. Quentin Crisp was just starting to parade his views, David Bowie was only just breaking on the scene, and homosexuality was for the quirky of society - not upstanding servicemen.


One must also think of the past of military dramas, movies, and plays - WWII figured prominently as a backdrop for "guys being goys", the brave souls who through battle gained friendships closer than they had with their own families.


So out of that came Kirk and Spock, brothers in battle, adventure, and blood; even though they were from different backgrounds, they were still able to accept each other and appreciate each other's views and talents.


Kirk was not an exceptionally intelligent man. He had drive, ambition, and street smarts, along with high moral character (except with women) and empathy. It was interesting to watch Spock ignore the fact that Kirk probably didn't even know the periodic table of elements; and he accepted him anyway.


And Spock was not a particularly easy guy to get to know, he most likely would not have developed such a close-knit relationship with Kirk if Kirk had been a less emotional, empathic man. One must consider the fact that Spock had come from a sad situation - his previous Captain, Pike - had lost his command rather fatefully, and Spock had to adjust to a new Captain. It's a wonder he didn't shut himself off completely after that. Perhaps Kirk offered him the chance to share his misery without judgement, with that gentle Kirk-like acceptance that we all know and love.


Now compare it with our Brave New World: we live in a time when homosexuality is accepted and openly spoken of. We have come to terms with the fact that homosexuality occurs frequently in the military, and acknowlege that many historical figures have dabbled in it. No longer a curiousity, we attach it to brotherly characters such a Sherlock Holmes and Doctor Watson, so why wouldn't we inevitably think of Kirk and Spock as dabblers?


Roddenberry's Star Trek was part of the heterosexual world, though, and Kirk and Spock were written as straight, but that won't stop K/S slash writers or curious individuals from exporing the possiblities, however remote.

Vger23

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Report this Nov. 25 2012, 8:25 am

Quote: Commandamanda @ Nov. 25 2012, 6:29 am

>

>Kirk was not an exceptionally intelligent man. He had drive, ambition, and street smarts, along with high moral character (except with women) and empathy. It was interesting to watch Spock ignore the fact that Kirk probably didn't even know the periodic table of elements; and he accepted him anyway.

>


 


I hesitate to post anything to this ridiculous, ongoing nightmare of a thread...but do you REALLY think Kirk "wasn't an exceptionally intelligent man?"


 


Let's remember that Kirk routinely beat Spock at chess (Where No Man Has Gone Before). For a guy who doesn't know the preiodic table of elements, he sure did a good job developing gun powder out of raw materials (Arena). He was extremely bright and dedicated to his studies at the Academy (Shore Leave, Where No Man Has Gone Before). Kirk repeatedly demonstrated advanced engineering knowledge of modern starships (Court Martial, Doomsday Machine, Star Trek Generations). He was the only cadet in history to beat the Kobyashi-Maru scenario, albeit through "original thinking" (Wrath of Khan). Finally, he was said to be "genius-level" by Captain Pike in the alternate reality (Star Trek 2009). 


I think it's completely false to say that Kirk was not intelligent. Just becuase he wasn't a science expert like Spock doesn't mean he wasn't an extremely intelligent individual. Intellect is much more than book smarts...and Kirk was probably amongst the most intelligent Star Trek characters ever portrayed. 


I AM KEE-ROCK!!

Leland F

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Report this Nov. 25 2012, 10:03 am

WHAT HE (Vger23) SAID!

Commandamanda

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Report this Nov. 25 2012, 10:11 am

" Finally, he was said to be "genius-level" by Captain Pike in the alternate reality (Star Trek 2009)."


You know, I wasn't really tinking of the NEW Kirk as much as I was thinking of the OLD Kirk, you're right in that regard. Kirk of The New Movie is a genius.


But Kirk of  STOS was not. Chess is a serious game, make no mistake; but I know young men who have mastered it quite well by their teen years. It makes sense that Kirk would be so good at "seeing ahead", due to his military training.


But I'm falling back here, what I need to say is that though it's often overlooked, the Preamble to ST: TMP as written by Kirk himself noted that Star Fleet stopped trying to recruit geniuses. Why? When they send the geniuses out into space, they defected, colonizing planets, joining forces with alien races, etc. In order to keep it military, they started recruiting more..."stable" personalities, ones that well, weren't geniuses. I'm trying ot find his direct quote on the web, but it looks like I'm going to have to go for the book:


AUUUGHHHH!!! it's missing for my favorite Star Trek bookshelf!!!! Must've gotten lost in the shuffle when I moved. Maybe someone else can help there...while I go look for it!

Leland F

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Report this Nov. 25 2012, 10:16 am

The Kirk in "The Movie" (I REFUSE to call it STAR TREK) was an immature spoiled brat who bears absolutely NO resemblance to the James Kirk of TOS! In "Where No Man Has Gone Before" Gary Mitchell described Jim Kirk at the academy as "a stack of books with legs" who likes Spinoza! Kirk not intelligent? HAH!


 


 

GEEWUN

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Report this Nov. 25 2012, 10:23 am

They were very close. They shared a deep friendship and brotherly love, but they there is no indication they were sexually attracted to each other.

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