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Are kirk and Spock gay?

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Created by: trutrek13

OtakuJo

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Report this May. 01 2012, 12:54 am

'Classic', by literal definition, refers to a character or concept which has stood the test of time, and stands UNCHANGED today, still speaking to a modern audience as it did to the people who saw it when it was 'fresh and new'. Homer (not Simpson!), Chaucer, Shakespeare, Dickens, the myriad others of their ilk and, yes...Star Trek


Interesting that you should bring up those particular authors given the immense variety of interpretations on their characters; even by readers of the original text.


Homer, Chaucer, and Shakespeare all used characters from the classical myths, and their interpretations of said characters (not to mention those of Virgil, Euripides, Ovid, and other more modern authors) are immensely variable -- indeed, it was expected that they would borrow and re-interpret pre-existing material. It's only relatively very recently that we think of fictional characters on such fixed terms.


Even one from the same 19th century source (say, for example, Dickens' Fagin) may be seen in vastly different ways by different readers, who of course will inevitably bring their own interpretation to the text and character. (Semiotic theory in a very small nutshell) Shakespearean characters have undergone drastic reinterpretation from production to production -- which many times do not even change the words.


The way that I see Kirk, say, is inevitably going to be very different to the way that you see him -- even if I were to acknowledge that I still don't personally think he's homosexual, or for that matter read a lot of slash as a rule. Even then, "your" Kirk and "my" Kirk will never be the same, just as "Shatner's" Kirk and "Roddenberry's" Kirk are not, in essence, the same character either.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

chaami82

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Report this May. 05 2012, 6:53 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

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>george takei is gay zachary quinto who plays the new spock has come out and said he is gay. brent spinner rumors are he is gay which is most likely true but if so why dont he just come out the closet like everyone else does these days? kirk and spock are NOT gay. DATA aka brent spinner the jury is out either gay straight or bi-sexual does it matter if he is?

>

The sexual preference of the actor(s) has no bearing over the sexual preferences of the character(s). Just saying.

Also, I know that this is a TOS thread, but I'm sorry, I can't allow ignorance like this to pass...

BRENT SPINER IS NOT GAY.

I have met him. I have spoken with him at length multiple times. He is happily married. He has a great kid. I have known many gay people... and he is NOT one of them. He is an unusual person, granted, but NOT gay.

Good Lord, what is this world coming to?

i can find no info on brent spiner being married or having any children i shall check again but last i checked i heard he was single and was rumored to be in the closet so i just jumped to the conclusion he was gay.

He is devourced his x has his son he hardly ever sees his son


I am a Sci-fi freak StarTrek Trekkie girl Geek. Life is drama? Drama is life. Deal with it. my owin quot Go foreword to the future and never look back. my owin quot To know you is to love you. To love you is to know you. A Quot form ST T.N.G.'s Data Life is rharely fuare. Quot form Data Bum me up baby powted to Data.

OtakuJo

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Report this May. 06 2012, 7:17 pm

He is devourced his x has his son he hardly ever sees his son


Can you divorce someone to whom you were never married?


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

chaami82

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Report this May. 15 2012, 5:36 am

where are you geting your info.

denise.dion2

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Report this May. 15 2012, 5:46 am

. Since Gene created Star Trek, and said that the characters of Kirk and Spock were reflections of his own personality, then it's Gene's canon hands down. 

We [the interviewers] tell Gene [Roddenberry] something of our recent interview with Bill [Shatner] and Leonard [Nimoy] - touching on the Kirk-Spock relationship, and Nimoy's feeling that Kirk was essential to Spock's life:

"I know you'...ve told us you designed that relationship as 'Two halves which come together to make a whole'. Is that how you still see it?"

[Roddenberry]: "Oh yes. As I've said, I definitely designed it as a love relationship. I think that's what we're all about - love, the effort to reach out to each other. I think that's a lovely thing. Also, dramatically, I designed Kirk and Spock to complete each other - and in fact, the Kirk, Spock McCoy triad to be the dramatic embodiment of the parts of one person: logic, emotion, and the balance between them. You cannot have an internal monologue on the screen, so that is a way of personifying it, getting it out where it can be seen - that internal debate which we all have within. AND I designed Kirk and Spock, as I told you, as dream images of myself, the two halves. But in terms of the characters, yes. That closeness... absolutely.">>


 

OtakuJo

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Report this May. 17 2012, 6:09 am

Well...


Since this thread has been bumped the other day, I feel I must take the opportunity to ask a very important question.


That being,


Which of the above poll options is supposed to be "YES", and which is "NO"?


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

Drakon128

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Report this May. 17 2012, 7:51 pm

Obvisously, they weren't written than way.  But if some fans what to read more into it then what's the harm?  It's just fantasy after all.

denise.dion2

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Report this May. 19 2012, 2:28 pm

I just find it amazing that Shatner doesn't mind the slash fans. In fact, he plays along. He's in Germany at the moment at a convention, and this was his answer to a question.


 


 William Shatner is up on stage and he was asked how many relationships with aliens he had in the entire Star Trek series. 
> He said: "Only one and that was continous." Said it somehow quiet and yet sure.
> Then he paused shortly before going on speaking about general aliens but we were sure which special alien he meant.
> Only one relationship.
> And that was continous.



CaptShumar

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Report this May. 19 2012, 3:45 pm

Canonically? No, they're not.  But when has canon ever stopped the fans?  And some fans what to pretend they're gay or bi, then let them.  Until we have TOS-Remastered (XXX), it's nothing but folk having fun.

denise.dion2

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Report this May. 19 2012, 5:59 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

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>

>

>I just find it amazing that Shatner doesn't mind the slash fans. In fact, he plays along. He's in Germany at the moment at a convention, and this was his answer to a question.

> William Shatner is up on stage and he was asked how many relationships with aliens he had in the entire Star Trek series. 
> He said: "Only one and that was continous." Said it somehow quiet and yet sure.
> Then he paused shortly before going on speaking about general aliens but we were sure which special alien he meant.
> Only one relationship.
> And that was continous.

>

>

 

It's well known among the fans that Shatner will do absolutely anything for a buck.  For you to attempt to use this as a justification for your written atrocities is a new low...even for you, Denise!

(Bet you thought I'd finally given up, huh sweetie?!)


 


As for William Shatner getting paid ....he's rich, do you think someone paid him to say this...


And you have me at a disadvantage...because I have no fucking clue who you are...neither do I care.


I have been, and always shall be yours.

denise.dion2

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Report this May. 19 2012, 7:42 pm

Well, old friend it's been nice knowing you.  You stay on your side of the  neutral zone and I'll stay on mine. Peace .............

CaptShumar

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Report this May. 20 2012, 9:16 am

I don't have a copy of the TMP novelization anymore, but wasn't there a prologue or somethingin the front that was a wink and nod to the K/S camp? 

Treknoir

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Report this May. 21 2012, 8:54 am

CaptShumar, do you mean when t'hyla was defined as friend/brother/lover? Yes, that was a wink and a nod. GR in his own way encouraged the slash fans.


It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

CaptShumar

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Report this May. 21 2012, 11:06 am

Quote: Treknoir @ May. 21 2012, 8:54 am

>

>CaptShumar, do you mean when t'hyla was defined as friend/brother/lover? Yes, that was a wink and a nod. GR in his own way encouraged the slash fans.

>


 


That's the bit I was thinking of, thank you.  


--------------
"The Blackest Night falls from the skies, The darkness grows as all light dies, We crave your hearts and your demise, By my black hand, the dead shall rise!" Oath Of The Black Lantern Corps.

denise.dion2

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Report this May. 21 2012, 11:32 am

It isn't canon unless it is onscreen.  Someone mentioned the motion picture, there is a quote, just after Admiral Kirk greets Spock who has just come on board. He is shocked of course, you can see it on his face....he is elated. But, Spock is giving him the cold shoulder...


It says and I quote:


Although Kirk had been as dumbfounded as the others, he was pleased to note that he had recovered first and was now handling all this with some degree of command presence.


But it still felt painful to be reminded so powerfully and unexpectedly of his friendship and affection for Spock--theirs had been the touching of two minds which the old poets of Spock's home planet had proclaimed as superior even to the wild physical love which affected Vulcans every seventh year during pon farr. 


Explain to me what you get from reading this...Of course it mentions friendship, which they have...and even McCoy said that Jim showed affection for Spock in the episode Operation Annihilate.  But, wild physical love??? 


Anyone???


 


 

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