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Wall Stree Protestors

caltrek2

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2654

Report this Oct. 05 2011, 6:10 am

Quote: Mantaray @ Oct. 04 2011, 12:19 pm

Quote: SLagonia @ Oct. 01 2011, 6:21 pm

>

>

>So, I'm going to ask again - What exactly are these people protesting?  I've been down there and even I can't tell.

>

I know its not allowed to be reported or taken seriously but:  Occupy Wall Street is a symbollic gesture of discontent with the current economic and political climate.

 


Exactly


As Americans, we sometimes suffer from too much pluribus and not enough unum. - Arthur Schelsinger, Jr.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46349

Report this Oct. 05 2011, 10:33 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>About time americans finally twigged to the fact that capitalism is immoral and is broken .

>The only ones who really benefit are the ultra rich and they are the ones who happen to have all the power and most of the assets.

>
Did you know that a good number of the "rich" used to be the poorest?  Or that tha vast majority of current millionaires are the first ones to be a millionaire in their family?


The reason that people get rich is that they do smart things.


Capitalism is about freedom.  Freedom to create and produce and earn based on the value of our contributions.


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46349

Report this Oct. 05 2011, 10:37 am

Quote: caltrek2 @ Oct. 05 2011, 6:07 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Oct. 04 2011, 5:26 pm

Quote: Mantaray @ Oct. 04 2011, 12:22 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Oct. 04 2011, 10:11 am

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>Considering that Moore makes millions and millions complaining about capitalism....

>

This too sounds like Faux News propoganda sound bites.

 

Here's one person's set of "demands" on the "Occupy WallStreet" website:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-occupy-wall-st-moveme

Extremely anti-capitalist.

Yes, I liked it to. 

 

At least you are trying to understand what they want by visiting their web site. That is a good sign.

Understanding the enemy is a basic tenet in any war.


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46349

Report this Oct. 05 2011, 10:44 am

Quote: caltrek2 @ Oct. 05 2011, 6:09 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Oct. 04 2011, 10:11 am

Quote: Tureaz'47 @ Oct. 04 2011, 2:51 am

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>

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>I like Michael Moore's rendition on the "tea party, being the 'tea-tanic' party."

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Considering that Moore makes millions and millions complaining about capitalism....

So. by your standards, he is a success?

Good question.  If I believed that money was the only equation in the definition of "success", yes.  But my first rule of life involves integrity. Without integrity, nobody can be a "success" in my book.  (And since he has no problems lying, then that eliminates him from my definition of "success.")


Now... if we're talking about what Moore thinks of as successful, then probably. (Although I think he wants to do even more damage.)


Chief Warrant Officer
Finn

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 321

Report this Oct. 05 2011, 11:23 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Oct. 01 2011, 9:55 am

>Yet what they're really screaming about is that some people/companies are more accomplished than others.  So what if a company has earned billions and another fail?  Why should a company (or a person) be penalized for success?  Should a student that earns an "A" be forced to give up some points to a student that refuses to study and fails?  Should a winning sports team be forced to have their points redistributed?

>
I disagree.  This is not about penalizing success.  When I buy stocks in a company, I want that company to succeed and do well.  When the company does well, I do well.  I make more money by virtue of the company making more money.


The issue here is that while some companies are dying and shareholders are losing money on their investments, the top executives that are running the companies into the ground is still getting $20 million bonuses.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46349

Report this Oct. 05 2011, 11:34 am

Quote: Chief Warrant Officer Finn @ Oct. 05 2011, 11:23 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Oct. 01 2011, 9:55 am

>

>Yet what they're really screaming about is that some people/companies are more accomplished than others.  So what if a company has earned billions and another fail?  Why should a company (or a person) be penalized for success?  Should a student that earns an "A" be forced to give up some points to a student that refuses to study and fails?  Should a winning sports team be forced to have their points redistributed?

>
I disagree.  This is not about penalizing success.  When I buy stocks in a company, I want that company to succeed and do well.  When the company does well, I do well.  I make more money by virtue of the company making more money.

The issue here is that while some companies are dying and shareholders are losing money on their investments, the top executives that are running the companies into the ground is still getting $20 million bonuses.

Then as a shareholder, you should speak out.  That's one of your rights.


Chief Warrant Officer
Finn

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 321

Report this Oct. 05 2011, 11:38 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Oct. 05 2011, 10:33 am

>Capitalism is about freedom.  Freedom to create and produce and earn based on the value of our contributions.

>
Except Léo Apotheker is taking home $28 million in severance packages for running HP into the ground and costing investors millions of dollars of their own money.  He also got a large severance package after being fired from the previous company he ran into the ground.


Stan O'Neal?  Richard Fuld?  They practically destroyed the U.S. economy by knowingly investing in junk bonds and loans.  Both made off with millions of dollars in bonuses while Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers file for bankruptcy, destroying millions of people's homes, investments, and retirement.


Clearly their value has nothing to do with their contributions, and the free market has done nothing to correct the issue over the past 30 years.

Chief Warrant Officer
Finn

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 321

Report this Oct. 05 2011, 11:42 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Oct. 05 2011, 11:34 am

>Then as a shareholder, you should speak out.  That's one of your rights.

>
Hence the protests.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46349

Report this Oct. 05 2011, 11:44 am

Quote: Chief Warrant Officer Finn @ Oct. 05 2011, 11:42 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Oct. 05 2011, 11:34 am

>

>Then as a shareholder, you should speak out.  That's one of your rights.

>
Hence the protests.

Nope - two different things.  As a shareholder, I have a right to go to a company meeting and speak out and have an impact.  The protests are just a bunch of people protesting whatever they feel like protsting about.


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46349

Report this Oct. 05 2011, 11:45 am

Quote: Chief Warrant Officer Finn @ Oct. 05 2011, 11:38 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Oct. 05 2011, 10:33 am

>

>Capitalism is about freedom.  Freedom to create and produce and earn based on the value of our contributions.

>
Except Léo Apotheker is taking home $28 million in severance packages for running HP into the ground and costing investors millions of dollars of their own money.  He also got a large severance package after being fired from the previous company he ran into the ground.
And?  If it was part of his severence package, which is a contract, then blame the people that wrote the contract.


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46349

Report this Oct. 05 2011, 11:46 am

Quote: Chief Warrant Officer Finn @ Oct. 05 2011, 11:38 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Oct. 05 2011, 10:33 am

>

>Capitalism is about freedom.  Freedom to create and produce and earn based on the value of our contributions.

>
Stan O'Neal?  Richard Fuld?  They practically destroyed the U.S. economy by knowingly investing in junk bonds and loans.  Both made off with millions of dollars in bonuses while Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers file for bankruptcy, destroying millions of people's homes, investments, and retirement.
Did they do anything illegal?  Why did their companies reward them?


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46349

Report this Oct. 05 2011, 11:48 am

Quote: Chief Warrant Officer Finn @ Oct. 05 2011, 11:38 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Oct. 05 2011, 10:33 am

>

>Capitalism is about freedom.  Freedom to create and produce and earn based on the value of our contributions.

>
Clearly their value has nothing to do with their contributions, and the free market has done nothing to correct the issue over the past 30 years.

Actually, the free market does correct the issue - it's just not the way you like it.   The problem is just been made worse with the Moral Hazard philosophy and the government's socialist policies trying to "fix"the issue instead of letting people be held accountable for what they do.


Chief Warrant Officer
Finn

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 321

Report this Oct. 05 2011, 12:35 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Oct. 05 2011, 11:44 am

>Nope - two different things.  As a shareholder, I have a right to go to a company meeting and speak out and have an impact.  The protests are just a bunch of people protesting whatever they feel like protsting about.

>
That is a privilege, not a right.  Minority share holders do not get to attend the meetings.  Many people have a 401(k) or similar investment plan with minimal share holdings of multiple companies in a diverse portfolio.  My voice is better heard in a protest to bring media attention and scrutiny on the companies in which I have no voice at all.

Chief Warrant Officer
Finn

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 321

Report this Oct. 05 2011, 12:51 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Oct. 05 2011, 11:48 am

>Actually, the free market does correct the issue - it's just not the way you like it.   The problem is just been made worse with the Moral Hazard philosophy and the government's socialist policies trying to "fix"the issue instead of letting people be held accountable for what they do.

>
Hewlett-Packard and Yahoo were not bailed out by the government.  Overcompensation for inept executives is not strictly the purview of banks and investment firms.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46349

Report this Oct. 05 2011, 2:56 pm

Quote: Chief Warrant Officer Finn @ Oct. 05 2011, 12:35 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Oct. 05 2011, 11:44 am

>

>Nope - two different things.  As a shareholder, I have a right to go to a company meeting and speak out and have an impact.  The protests are just a bunch of people protesting whatever they feel like protesting about.

>
That is a privilege, not a right.  Minority share holders do not get to attend the meetings.  Many people have a 401(k) or similar investment plan with minimal share holdings of multiple companies in a diverse portfolio.  My voice is better heard in a protest to bring media attention and scrutiny on the companies in which I have no voice at all.

If you're not allowed to attend a meeting or make your voice known in a company that you own shares in, then don't be a shareholder.


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